Nerf proc sets please.

coj901

I’m glad the tank meta is somewhat is somewhat gone but I don’t see why they did this to proc sets. There’s no argument for keeping these sets so strong. Folks running around just light attacking and bam insta kill. This game used to be about twitch reflexes and now anyone can be decent at pvp.

NeillMcAttack

That's exactly the point though, they want anyone to be able to fight in PvP, they just need the right set for their playstyle.
Generally speaking this concept isn't terrible, but it's just when actual experienced and seasoned players start abusing the power of these proc sets while being able to sit in heavy armor, sit at 30-35k health, and win without any real effort the gameplay gets extremely stale.
The damage the proc sets put out need to scale with your offensive stats, so that there is an actual trade off, like there is supposed to be, just like the very nature of the game...

Berchelous

They do not listen mate

Grimlok_S

I like how everyone is celebrating the fall of the "tank meta" but all I see are 30k+ HP bars and HP based heals.

Procs are enabling players to stack health and keep consistent damage to when they ran 20-25K health and actually cared about weapon and spell damage.

Gilvoth

about 90% of the proc sets are really good and do not need changed, its only a few that are strong.

Jierdanit

Gilvoth wrote: »

about 90% of the proc sets are really good and do not need changed, its only a few that are strong.

No.

There are certainly proc sets which are fine at the moment and due that are barely used at all.
I am fairly sure that the OP didnt talk about those sets though, but means the big amount of proc sets which are way stronger than any set should be.

and also, it does not really matter if only a few proc sets are too strong. You still need to nerf those that are too strong because everyone just plays the ones that are too strong (though ofc the ones that are fine need no nerf).

coj901

I gave in and put two proc sets on. Venom smite and the one with the crows whatever that is. I don’t even know what’s going on it just peck peck yet dead

SirAndy

Another salty PvP player asking for nerfs, color me surprised ...

ZOS, whatever you do, don't kill PvE to appease those PvP players who can't be bothered to learn how to counter play.

In fact, this is a good time as any to once again ask to make PvP and PvE two completely separate parts of the game.
All gear and skills should have two separate sets of effects for PvP and PvE. They can of course overlap but changes to one part should never ever affect the other part.

jaws343

SirAndy wrote: »

Another salty PvP player asking for nerfs, color me surprised ...

ZOS, whatever you do, don't kill PvE to appease those PvP players who can't be bothered to learn how to counter play.

In fact, this is a good time as any to once again ask to make PvP and PvE two completely separate parts of the game.
All gear and skills should have two separate sets of effects for PvP and PvE. They can of course overlap but changes to one part should never ever affect the other part.

Honestly, PVE concerns should be entirely ignored when it comes to procs sets.

Proc sets are entirely irrelevant in PVE, outside of a few that get used. Usually, the only people wanting PVE procs are people running overland content. And the procs that do get used in PVE don't get used in PVP due to the nature of the proc, mostly being stationary proces like illambris, or Aegis caller. And if a player is using proc sets like venomous smite in PVE, then clearly effective DPS is not really relevant to them.

relentless_turnip

They just need to make them scale with offensive stats and then you need stam/mag or WD/SD for them to be remotely worth wearing. Without stacking health, health based heals would be also be less dominant.

Jierdanit

SirAndy wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Another salty PvP player asking for nerfs, color me surprised ...

ZOS, whatever you do, don't kill PvE to appease those PvP players who can't be bothered to learn how to counter play.

In fact, this is a good time as any to once again ask to make PvP and PvE two completely separate parts of the game.
All gear and skills should have two separate sets of effects for PvP and PvE. They can of course overlap but changes to one part should never ever affect the other part.

It seems like a weird choice to come to the PvP sub forum to kick off at PvP players discussing issues that effect PvP... Proc sets are useless in pve anyway...

You clearly don't understand the meaning of the word "useless" ...

They might not be entirely useless, but they are certainly less useful (in terms of DPS) than stat sets in PvE.

In my opinion its a pretty bad attitude to say that the sets that destroy PvP right now should not be nerfed because some poor PvEer wants more variety in his builds, really nice how you care about all parts of the playerbase.

And btw it is not about learning to counterplay. The issue is that Proc Sets outperform Stat sets in nearly every way in PvP to a point where you make yourself weaker by deciding not to let your sets do all the work, but actually play the game.

ealdwin

Jierdanit wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Another salty PvP player asking for nerfs, color me surprised ...

ZOS, whatever you do, don't kill PvE to appease those PvP players who can't be bothered to learn how to counter play.

In fact, this is a good time as any to once again ask to make PvP and PvE two completely separate parts of the game.
All gear and skills should have two separate sets of effects for PvP and PvE. They can of course overlap but changes to one part should never ever affect the other part.

It seems like a weird choice to come to the PvP sub forum to kick off at PvP players discussing issues that effect PvP... Proc sets are useless in pve anyway...

You clearly don't understand the meaning of the word "useless" ...

They might not be entirely useless, but they are certainly less useful (in terms of DPS) than stat sets in PvE.

In my opinion its a pretty bad attitude to say that the sets that destroy PvP right now should not be nerfed because some poor PvEer wants more variety in his builds, really nice how you care about all parts of the playerbase.

And btw it is not about learning to counterplay. The issue is that Proc Sets outperform Stat sets in nearly every way in PvP to a point where you make yourself weaker by deciding not to let your sets do all the work, but actually play the game.

Also, it seems that whenever people read the word "nerf", they assume that means a damage reduction on a level that makes an ability or a set actually useless. (Which, honestly, has kind of been ZOS's trend over the past few patches).

A better term might be "adjusted". And proc sets do need adjusted. Regardless of how fun the current state of proc sets is in PVE, its pretty much undeniable that they have completely upended the balance in PVP, especially No-CP. They enable high burst damage on health-stacking builds that previously wouldn't have had access to those levels of damage. Throw in a health based heal, and you have the source of most complaints about Wardens, Necros, and Werewolves these past two patches.

The suggestion for adjustment that I've seen others share and that I agree with would be to nerf the base damage, but then allow proc sets to scale off of offensive resources. This would mean that in order to get high burst damage from these sets, you would have to invest in either Magicka or Stamina. In PVE, there would be little change, because if you are relying on proc sets to help deal damage, you're already stacking Magicka or Stamina, or stacking Magicka if you are healing. But in PVP, this would mean that to gain the benefit of proc sets you would have to build for damage. It would eliminate the lack of trade-off between damage and survivability that currently exists in this proc meta. PVE'ers wouldn't loose their ability for different off-meta builds, but PVP wouldn't suffer from unkillable proc-tanks.

Soul_Demon

Yeah, we need to limit groups to no more than two and simply put timers on skills that keep them from being cast or used more often than one time every 10 min. That way we can all just run around and e-mote at each other all day long. Think about how fun that would be. While we are at it take all the doors off keeps just like resources so they are not so 'exclusive' to only players who siege them....its just not inclusive enough for the population to have that----and make the size of cyro about 1/10th of what it is now so we can put a world boss in here to fight.

Grimlok_S

jaws343 wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Another salty PvP player asking for nerfs, color me surprised ...

ZOS, whatever you do, don't kill PvE to appease those PvP players who can't be bothered to learn how to counter play.

In fact, this is a good time as any to once again ask to make PvP and PvE two completely separate parts of the game.
All gear and skills should have two separate sets of effects for PvP and PvE. They can of course overlap but changes to one part should never ever affect the other part.

Honestly, PVE concerns should be entirely ignored when it comes to procs sets.

Proc sets are entirely irrelevant in PVE, outside of a few that get used. Usually, the only people wanting PVE procs are people running overland content. And the procs that do get used in PVE don't get used in PVP due to the nature of the proc, mostly being stationary proces like illambris, or Aegis caller. And if a player is using proc sets like venomous smite in PVE, then clearly effective DPS is not really relevant to them.

I wish that were the case. Have you checked into stamdps recently? I can't speak to mag, but stam dps hardcrutch on procs like Relequen to post numbers.

Frankly I think any set that rewards your ability to left click with free damage is dumb, regardless of the content it lends itself to.

jaws343

Grimlok_S wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Another salty PvP player asking for nerfs, color me surprised ...

ZOS, whatever you do, don't kill PvE to appease those PvP players who can't be bothered to learn how to counter play.

In fact, this is a good time as any to once again ask to make PvP and PvE two completely separate parts of the game.
All gear and skills should have two separate sets of effects for PvP and PvE. They can of course overlap but changes to one part should never ever affect the other part.

Honestly, PVE concerns should be entirely ignored when it comes to procs sets.

Proc sets are entirely irrelevant in PVE, outside of a few that get used. Usually, the only people wanting PVE procs are people running overland content. And the procs that do get used in PVE don't get used in PVP due to the nature of the proc, mostly being stationary proces like illambris, or Aegis caller. And if a player is using proc sets like venomous smite in PVE, then clearly effective DPS is not really relevant to them.

I wish that were the case. Have you checked into stamdps recently? I can't speak to mag, but stam dps hardcrutch on procs like Relequen to post numbers.

Frankly I think any set that rewards your ability to left click with free damage is dumb, regardless of the content it lends itself to.

Sure. But Relequen is a proc set that is used mostly in PVE. Which I accounted for. And it is not used often in PVP because it isn't that good it it.

Even so, as mentioned earlier, reducing the base damage and making them scale to offensive stats would solve the issue with zero impact on PVE. Might even make them more effective in PVE depending on how it's done.

nk125x

Yes pls

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for the understanding.

Legendry

Hey, and what about us roleplayers. I love roleplaying a venom-fiery nightblade. Us minorities also have a voice in how zos treats sets and stuff in the game, our voices should be heard too, otherwise you pvpers and pveers are discriminating. Sets should be updated also based on their roleplay potential. And let's not forget about aesthetics also.

Pattceht

Legendry wrote: »

Hey, and what about us roleplayers. I love roleplaying a venom-fiery nightblade. Us minorities also have a voice in how zos treats sets and stuff in the game, our voices should be heard too, otherwise you pvpers and pveers are discriminating. Sets should be updated also based on their roleplay potential. And let's not forget about aesthetics also.

Infuse your weapons with fire and use poisons? what does this have to do with OP PvP procc sets? Guessing you've never been killed by som one back barring syvarras, with masters 2handed and unleashed on the front bar.... not much counter play in a pvp situation for that

They do need to change the way procc sets work, making them scale with your stats/weapon damage would be a step in the right direction. That wouldn't effect PvE then.

ealdwin

Legendry wrote: »

Hey, and what about us roleplayers. I love roleplaying a venom-fiery nightblade. Us minorities also have a voice in how zos treats sets and stuff in the game, our voices should be heard too, otherwise you pvpers and pveers are discriminating. Sets should be updated also based on their roleplay potential. And let's not forget about aesthetics also.

No one is suggesting completely removing those proc sets. What players are asking for is changes so that proc sets are not overpowered in a way that enables builds with high survivability who are able to complete by relying on sets for most of their damage. There have been very little calls for the complete removal of proc sets, but rather calls for adjustments such as:

1. Reducing their damage to be so their damage potential is on par with builds relying on stat sets.
2. Changing how their damage is calculated, so that they require building into damage
3. Buffing stat sets so that builds using them can deal comparable damage.

There are changes that can be made that allow proc sets to be viable and usable, especially when those sets allow for build diversity, but keep them from being at a point where they enable broken metas in PVP.

techyeshic

relentless_turnip wrote: »

They just need to make them scale with offensive stats and then you need stam/mag or WD/SD for them to be remotely worth wearing. Without stacking health, health based heals would be also be less dominant.

Not enough IMO. In CP, I feel like I can fight against them without procs myself. Problem is when lag gets bad, I can't activate much but procs are still easy to go, and even if you have a purge, you can't activate to remove much.

Problems with procs does include not needing any stats, but also they are free and almost automatic.

relentless_turnip

techyeshic wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

They just need to make them scale with offensive stats and then you need stam/mag or WD/SD for them to be remotely worth wearing. Without stacking health, health based heals would be also be less dominant.

Not enough IMO. In CP, I feel like I can fight against them without procs myself. Problem is when lag gets bad, I can't activate much but procs are still easy to go, and even if you have a purge, you can't activate to remove much.

Problems with procs does include not needing any stats, but also they are free and almost automatic.

Firstly I don't think sets should be balanced based on performance. Secondly if proc sets scaled with offensive stats in the same way an equivalent skill does meaning it does the same base damage it would be fine. You wouldn't be able to achieve the same tooltips as a fully stat set up, but you would have multiple sources of damage. What is impossible to overcome at the moment is the 40k health tanks spamming one skill until you die and recieving 10k+ self heals on top of crimson. I don't have a problem with procs outside of what they enable people to build.

techyeshic

relentless_turnip wrote: »

techyeshic wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

They just need to make them scale with offensive stats and then you need stam/mag or WD/SD for them to be remotely worth wearing. Without stacking health, health based heals would be also be less dominant.

Not enough IMO. In CP, I feel like I can fight against them without procs myself. Problem is when lag gets bad, I can't activate much but procs are still easy to go, and even if you have a purge, you can't activate to remove much.

Problems with procs does include not needing any stats, but also they are free and almost automatic.

Firstly I don't think sets should be balanced based on performance. Secondly if proc sets scaled with offensive stats in the same way an equivalent skill does meaning it does the same base damage it would be fine. You wouldn't be able to achieve the same tooltips as a fully stat set up, but you would have multiple sources of damage. What is impossible to overcome at the moment is the 40k health tanks spamming one skill until you die and recieving 10k+ self heals on top of crimson. I don't have a problem with procs outside of what they enable people to build.

Performance is part of the game. It's not getting better and should be considered.

relentless_turnip

techyeshic wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

techyeshic wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

They just need to make them scale with offensive stats and then you need stam/mag or WD/SD for them to be remotely worth wearing. Without stacking health, health based heals would be also be less dominant.

Not enough IMO. In CP, I feel like I can fight against them without procs myself. Problem is when lag gets bad, I can't activate much but procs are still easy to go, and even if you have a purge, you can't activate to remove much.

Problems with procs does include not needing any stats, but also they are free and almost automatic.

Firstly I don't think sets should be balanced based on performance. Secondly if proc sets scaled with offensive stats in the same way an equivalent skill does meaning it does the same base damage it would be fine. You wouldn't be able to achieve the same tooltips as a fully stat set up, but you would have multiple sources of damage. What is impossible to overcome at the moment is the 40k health tanks spamming one skill until you die and recieving 10k+ self heals on top of crimson. I don't have a problem with procs outside of what they enable people to build.

Performance is part of the game. It's not getting better and should be considered.

Not with balance IMO, performance should be fixed and the game should be balanced. I don't think the game should remain broken and the game balanced around the assumption it won't work.