Stamina sets Vs Magicka Sets

regime211

Looking at all the various sets for stamina why does stamina have more variety in high damaged sets than magicka?

Sergykid

magicka is more towards utility and longevity, both pvp and pve.

Sanctum74

Stamina builds typically go for max weapon damage and lower stamina pools, where as magicka builds usually have lower spell damage, but higher magicka pools since it gives them both damage and bigger shields.

zvavi

stamina has much stronger sets, which is balanced by lack of strong class kit (usually), you can see easily how mother's sorrow is bis for mag, while stam doesn't even look at leviathan, how stam got tzogvin, and mag got the inferior medusa, and then at the top of non slayer sets stamina has berserking warrior, that was buffed by 5% crit, a patch before zos told us that crit is too easy to get and nerfed all crit...
mag had a superior version of vo for few patches, but it got nerfed because the set was too used (and for a reason, mag sustain is so fudging bad)
edit: not even counting deadly strikes

Flaaklypa

Sadly magicka is bis in both pve and pvp.

pve --> the go to for any raiding group. easier to dps, easier to stay alive, more cleave damage.

pvp---> while stam is incredibly strong in pvp, much better than mags in execute, due to the current proc sets. a magden has 2x the pressure of a stamnb for example. and a magden who can just activate their mag procs (which are broken as ***), use northern wind and spam heals while killing people around them.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Because Zenimax has historically done so poorly at balance that now stamina dominates pvp and magicka is far superior at pve, imo (I am aware that magic can still be successful in pvp now with procs, but I speak in general). They won't balance pve and pvp separately so this is what we get. But in pve days past, magicka excelled from higher resource pools and crit, while being fine with lower spell damage than the weapon damage that stamina requires, while stamina also typically has a lower resource pool. Now with damage scaling off of different things than it was originally intended, everything is a mess. The core mechanisms of the game have been tampered with harmfully.

Everest_Lionheart

Mags have access to one of their best sets right from the beginning of the game. You can pick that up early and craft a set of seducer by the end of your first week of playing the game and those will be sufficient enough to carry you for a long time until you start building dungeon sets.

The best stam sets are locked behind trials and you need specific pieces to build your setup so that it works. You will want Rele on your Body and AY on your weapons and jewelry because it’s a heavy set. The other nice set, especially for everyone who wants to play WW build is Tzogvin and that’s locked behind FV, not an easy dungeon for inexperienced players. Briarheart is a decent overland set but that going to take time to farm and Wrothgar WB are way tougher the Deshaan (except Bittergreen, screw that WB!) The delves are longer too and as far as public dungeons go that one in Deshaan is one of the simplest farming routes in the game.

Crafted sets are a wash, both are 6 trait and a new player will need someone to craft it. Here is where the magicka set is leaps and bounds past the stamina version: Julianos + MS you can still pull extremely good numbers, way beyond what you would get in the stam equivalent of Hundings + Leviathan (which you will have to farm in a 4 man dungeon.)

Magicka toons from day 1 have access to superior beginner sets but over the long run stamina catches and passes them in terms of variety. Another advantage magicka has assuming you aren’t running perfected versions is the ability to mix and match better. The BiS sets are all light armor, so weapons, jewelry it doesn’t matter you set front bar and back bar depending on your arena weapon. That ability to mix and match body, weapons and jewelry gives you flexibility in your setup.

This is not the case with stam where you have a heavy set in the equation. So if mixing and matching you will have to run a 6-1 setup or 5-2. Doing that reduces your crit dmg and sustain and puts you in a tier slightly below magicka in many cases. We are mostly running all 7 medium on the body except the most squishy among us are running a heavy chest.

Overall at endgame PvE level it’s balanced on paper. Stam gets the extra hitting power and resistance while dealing with more punishing mechanics while Magicka has to find creative ways to sustain while having more reaction time to avoid the brunt of the damage in most trials. Still despite all the variety and (recent) power of stam most groups are still predominantly mag and that has to do with the amount of superior support sets to boost mag as compared to stam. Mags get all the good support because they need it, stam you are running 7 medium plus skills like bull netch or leeching strikes to sustain.

Honestly speaking though there isn’t enough variety in either mag or stam and viable sets are limited in the hardest content with any chance at variety being situational.

fred4

Flaaklypa wrote: »

pvp---> while stam is incredibly strong in pvp, much better than mags in execute, due to the current proc sets. a magden has 2x the pressure of a stamnb for example. and a magden who can just activate their mag procs (which are broken as ***), use northern wind and spam heals while killing people around them.

What alternate universe did you come from? Anyway: Welcome!

Dracane

fred4 wrote: »

Flaaklypa wrote: »

pvp---> while stam is incredibly strong in pvp, much better than mags in execute, due to the current proc sets. a magden has 2x the pressure of a stamnb for example. and a magden who can just activate their mag procs (which are broken as ***), use northern wind and spam heals while killing people around them.

What alternate universe did you come from? Anyway: Welcome!

I was asking myself the same.
Last time I checked, all common proc sets dealt physical and poison damage. Where are the magicka proc sets other than Vateshran?

Firstmep

Dracane wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Flaaklypa wrote: »

pvp---> while stam is incredibly strong in pvp, much better than mags in execute, due to the current proc sets. a magden has 2x the pressure of a stamnb for example. and a magden who can just activate their mag procs (which are broken as ***), use northern wind and spam heals while killing people around them.

What alternate universe did you come from? Anyway: Welcome!

I was asking myself the same.
Last time I checked, all common proc sets dealt physical and poison damage. Where are the magicka proc sets other than Vateshran?

Brp destro, calurion, winter born, defending warrior, overwhelming surge, just to name the most popular ones.
I will say the new oblivions foe is defo too weak when compared to something like unleashed, which has about as much dmg as icy conjuror but can apply to multiple targets.
Stam has more proc variety, but let's be real onlya few are used.
Oh grothdaar, zaan also both very strong and used even on Stam these days.

iksde

Firstmep wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Flaaklypa wrote: »

pvp---> while stam is incredibly strong in pvp, much better than mags in execute, due to the current proc sets. a magden has 2x the pressure of a stamnb for example. and a magden who can just activate their mag procs (which are broken as ***), use northern wind and spam heals while killing people around them.

What alternate universe did you come from? Anyway: Welcome!

I was asking myself the same.
Last time I checked, all common proc sets dealt physical and poison damage. Where are the magicka proc sets other than Vateshran?

Brp destro, calurion, winter born, defending warrior, overwhelming surge, just to name the most popular ones.
I will say the new oblivions foe is defo too weak when compared to something like unleashed, which has about as much dmg as icy conjuror but can apply to multiple targets.
Stam has more proc variety, but let's be real onlya few are used.
Oh grothdaar, zaan also both very strong and used even on Stam these days.

and yet I see literally nonstop stamina procs, everywhere but barely see magica proc in my death recap if even

fred4

I was referring to the assertion that magden puts out twice the pressure of stamblade (in itself wrong, IMO) and that this is somehow good enough to melt people and not die. The drawbacks of the class are IMO very real, such as the lack of an execute, gapcloser and mobility. I encountered one in a duel recently. While he did put out good damage and was annoying to fight against due to snares / roots / Winterborn, my magblade ran circles around him and was at no point under threat. To be fair, this guy was only around CP500 and specced on the high-health side to make the most of Arctic Blast. Not real good evidence, but if his procs were supposed to kill me while he healed, that was probably the exact setup Flaaklypa was talking about. I also play the class myself, albeit not a proc / snare build. I find it extremely lacklustre and the above-mentioned drawbacks all too real.

spartaxoxo

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Mags have access to one of their best sets right from the beginning of the game. You can pick that up early and craft a set of seducer by the end of your first week of playing the game and those will be sufficient enough to carry you for a long time until you start building dungeon sets.

Um, Hunding's Rage is just as craftable as Seducer, FYI. Baby's first sets for both classes are easy to get and absolutely do not require trials.

As for trials, both Sirora and Rele come from the same trial. AY is harder to get than Mother's Sorrow, but Stamina also has more alternatives than Mag. Overall, besides needing two weapons if you dual wield, they are about the same difficulty to gear out.

Aside from Mother's Sorrow, Medusa is also a heavy armor set. So it's untrue that Magicka doesn't have one of their best sets locked behind heavy armor.

@Everest_Lionheart

Firstmep

iksde wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Flaaklypa wrote: »

pvp---> while stam is incredibly strong in pvp, much better than mags in execute, due to the current proc sets. a magden has 2x the pressure of a stamnb for example. and a magden who can just activate their mag procs (which are broken as ***), use northern wind and spam heals while killing people around them.

What alternate universe did you come from? Anyway: Welcome!

I was asking myself the same.
Last time I checked, all common proc sets dealt physical and poison damage. Where are the magicka proc sets other than Vateshran?

Brp destro, calurion, winter born, defending warrior, overwhelming surge, just to name the most popular ones.
I will say the new oblivions foe is defo too weak when compared to something like unleashed, which has about as much dmg as icy conjuror but can apply to multiple targets.
Stam has more proc variety, but let's be real onlya few are used.
Oh grothdaar, zaan also both very strong and used even on Stam these days.

and yet I see literally nonstop stamina procs, everywhere but barely see magica proc in my death recap if even

I see plenty zaan, vate destro grothdaar etc in my death recaps.

iksde

Firstmep wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Flaaklypa wrote: »

pvp---> while stam is incredibly strong in pvp, much better than mags in execute, due to the current proc sets. a magden has 2x the pressure of a stamnb for example. and a magden who can just activate their mag procs (which are broken as ***), use northern wind and spam heals while killing people around them.

What alternate universe did you come from? Anyway: Welcome!

I was asking myself the same.
Last time I checked, all common proc sets dealt physical and poison damage. Where are the magicka proc sets other than Vateshran?

Brp destro, calurion, winter born, defending warrior, overwhelming surge, just to name the most popular ones.
I will say the new oblivions foe is defo too weak when compared to something like unleashed, which has about as much dmg as icy conjuror but can apply to multiple targets.
Stam has more proc variety, but let's be real onlya few are used.
Oh grothdaar, zaan also both very strong and used even on Stam these days.

and yet I see literally nonstop stamina procs, everywhere but barely see magica proc in my death recap if even

I see plenty zaan, vate destro grothdaar etc in my death recaps.

zaan along with new arena destro is easy to break, destro even not hard to outheal at all, grothdar deal very low dmg

and it is hard to outheal 2-4 dots you get from single skill and you cant even just get out of them as they are just at you along with pushing proc user on you

it is funny how I dont have single problem with magica procs because they are so obvious or just not very op (I myself use calurian on my magblade and Im thinking to drop it as I dont see much helping me at all with kills in most fights because fo its cooldown
and yet I get literally melted by stam proc sets, dots, which I cant get away from them and outheal under preassure unlike magica procs

Everest_Lionheart

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Mags have access to one of their best sets right from the beginning of the game. You can pick that up early and craft a set of seducer by the end of your first week of playing the game and those will be sufficient enough to carry you for a long time until you start building dungeon sets.

Um, Hunding's Rage is just as craftable as Seducer, FYI. Baby's first sets for both classes are easy to get and absolutely do not require trials.

As for trials, both Sirora and Rele come from the same trial. AY is harder to get than Mother's Sorrow, but Stamina also has more alternatives than Mag. Overall, besides needing two weapons if you dual wield, they are about the same difficulty to gear out.

Aside from Mother's Sorrow, Medusa is also a heavy armor set. So it's untrue that Magicka doesn't have one of their best sets locked behind heavy armor.

@Everest_Lionheart

I’m saying as a brand new player to the game it’s easier to gear out and grow your magicka sets with you all the way up to the gear cap. Hundings and Julianos aren’t immediately available to a new player unless you get someone to craft it for you.

Medusa is not a set players will have a need for until much later in the game but you still have more flexibility when you do use it because you can run heavy chest or legs and use a medium monster head or shoulder with it, so if you are like me with 6 light Zaan helmets in your bank you can throw on Medusa without the need to run only weapons and jewelry.

Magicka users also have access to BSW, one of the old BiS sets that people seem to have forgotten since FG and Siroria became all the rage. The inferno staff is a complete enigma, but you can get body/jewelry in a couple runs.

Another decent set that is easy to get for magicka is War Maiden. You can get an infused flame staff and an infused lightning staff from a quest. It’s pairs pretty good on Magicka Templar and is on par with BSW and in my opinion easier to get because you have access to the staves. Coincidentally you also have easy access to a Mother’s Sorrow infused lightning staff. Always a solid option for the backbar when you are farming for the inferno.

Stamina set wise for weapons other than crafted many are locked behind harder content. We have access to a Briarheart dagger in a trait nobody ever uses, decisive or something like that.

What the game needs really is more dual purpose craft able sets that can be made with say 4-5 traits. The change to Innate Axiom made it a cheap craft able set that can be used with either stam or mag a few patches back. Everyone overlooks this set, but it’s a solid choice for either while you farm dungeon gear also. The other sets that boost both stam and mag are 6 trait (ancient dragonguard, mechanical acuity) or 9 trait (NMA) sets.

spartaxoxo

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

I’m saying as a brand new player to the game it’s easier to gear out and grow your magicka sets with you all the way up to the gear cap. Hundings and Julianos aren’t immediately available to a new player unless you get someone to craft it for you.

Which is very easy to do and most new players do exactly that. Because by the time they are high enough level where just quest drops aren't good enough for the content they want to do, they typically have a guild that will.

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Medusa is not a set players will have a need for until much later in the game but you still have more flexibility when you do use it because you can run heavy chest or legs and use a medium monster head or shoulder with it, so if you are like me with 6 light Zaan helmets in your bank you can throw on Medusa without the need to run only weapons and jewelry.

Stamina users can also do unoptimized builds. This is exactly the same.

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Magicka users also have access to BSW, one of the old BiS sets that people seem to have forgotten since FG and Siroria became all the rage. The inferno staff is a complete enigma, but you can get body/jewelry in a couple runs.

An optimized build using BSW is harder to get than AY, because AY has 12 players looting instead of only 4.

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Another decent set that is easy to get for magicka is War Maiden. You can get an infused flame staff and an infused lightning staff from a quest. It’s pairs pretty good on Magicka Templar and is on par with BSW and in my opinion easier to get because you have access to the staves. Coincidentally you also have easy access to a Mother’s Sorrow infused lightning staff. Always a solid option for the backbar when you are farming for the inferno.

Stamina set wise for weapons other than crafted many are locked behind harder content. We have access to a Briarheart dagger in a trait nobody ever uses, decisive or something like that.

If we are including niche or just okay sets, Stamina has more and not just in hard content.

Leviathan, Spriggans and Deadly Strikes aren't hard to get.

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

What the game needs really is more dual purpose craft able sets that can be made with say 4-5 traits. The change to Innate Axiom made it a cheap craft able set that can be used with either stam or mag a few patches back. Everyone overlooks this set, but it’s a solid choice for either while you farm dungeon gear also. The other sets that boost both stam and mag are 6 trait (ancient dragonguard, mechanical acuity) or 9 trait (NMA) sets.

I mean, it's not hard to get gear in this game in general. Most of it can be obtained in normal modes without issue. If you're the kind of person who wants to do group content, gear is readily available to all level of group players. Solo it's a bit more complicated but also the gear you need for solo content doesn't have as high of requirements.

The only hard to get gear in the game is the perfected stuff, and that stuff drops from the same content for both classes.

SidraWillowsky

fred4 wrote: »

I was referring to the assertion that magden puts out twice the pressure of stamblade (in itself wrong, IMO) and that this is somehow good enough to melt people and not die. The drawbacks of the class are IMO very real, such as the lack of an execute, gapcloser and mobility. I encountered one in a duel recently. While he did put out good damage and was annoying to fight against due to snares / roots / Winterborn, my magblade ran circles around him and was at no point under threat. To be fair, this guy was only around CP500 and specced on the high-health side to make the most of Arctic Blast. Not real good evidence, but if his procs were supposed to kill me while he healed, that was probably the exact setup Flaaklypa was talking about. I also play the class myself, albeit not a proc / snare build. I find it extremely lacklustre and the above-mentioned drawbacks all too real.

Exactly. I main a magwarden and it's frustrating in PvP because I mostly just frustrate and annoy people vs. kill them. I generally have to rely on others to do the killing while I provide the stun/snare utility and can stay alive for a long time.

I don't even WANT to exist to be frustrating, btw... I just really enjoy magwarden and don't want to switch to a class that I don't really like for the sake of killing people.

Everest_Lionheart

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

I’m saying as a brand new player to the game it’s easier to gear out and grow your magicka sets with you all the way up to the gear cap. Hundings and Julianos aren’t immediately available to a new player unless you get someone to craft it for you.

Which is very easy to do and most new players do exactly that. Because by the time they are high enough level where just quest drops aren't good enough for the content they want to do, they typically have a guild that will.

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Medusa is not a set players will have a need for until much later in the game but you still have more flexibility when you do use it because you can run heavy chest or legs and use a medium monster head or shoulder with it, so if you are like me with 6 light Zaan helmets in your bank you can throw on Medusa without the need to run only weapons and jewelry.

Stamina users can also do unoptimized builds. This is exactly the same.

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Magicka users also have access to BSW, one of the old BiS sets that people seem to have forgotten since FG and Siroria became all the rage. The inferno staff is a complete enigma, but you can get body/jewelry in a couple runs.

An optimized build using BSW is harder to get than AY, because AY has 12 players looting instead of only 4.

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Another decent set that is easy to get for magicka is War Maiden. You can get an infused flame staff and an infused lightning staff from a quest. It’s pairs pretty good on Magicka Templar and is on par with BSW and in my opinion easier to get because you have access to the staves. Coincidentally you also have easy access to a Mother’s Sorrow infused lightning staff. Always a solid option for the backbar when you are farming for the inferno.

Stamina set wise for weapons other than crafted many are locked behind harder content. We have access to a Briarheart dagger in a trait nobody ever uses, decisive or something like that.

If we are including niche or just okay sets, Stamina has more and not just in hard content.

Leviathan, Spriggans and Deadly Strikes aren't hard to get.

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

What the game needs really is more dual purpose craft able sets that can be made with say 4-5 traits. The change to Innate Axiom made it a cheap craft able set that can be used with either stam or mag a few patches back. Everyone overlooks this set, but it’s a solid choice for either while you farm dungeon gear also. The other sets that boost both stam and mag are 6 trait (ancient dragonguard, mechanical acuity) or 9 trait (NMA) sets.

I mean, it's not hard to get gear in this game in general. Most of it can be obtained in normal modes without issue. If you're the kind of person who wants to do group content, gear is readily available to all level of group players. Solo it's a bit more complicated but also the gear you need for solo content doesn't have as high of requirements.

The only hard to get gear in the game is the perfected stuff, and that stuff drops from the same content for both classes.

For sure gear isn’t necessarily that hard to get for either stam or mag provided you have the time to put into farming it. As someone who plays both I found mag sets way easier to farm than stam sets which you can get much easier if you just pony up a little coin in guild traders.

On my mags I found Siroria jewelry the easiest to get, with the caveat being that perfected is locked behind the hardest content in the game. It’s the old carrot and the stick. Oddly I’ve been blessed by the RNG gods and been on the receiving end of 3 inferno staves. Everyone wants to run with me because I give all the good stuff away. I’ve got full healer and tank sets from there too without even trading pieces.

Relequen on the other hand. I finally had someone part with the pants to help me out. To make things tougher I had to transmute 3/5 pieces from sturdy and well fitted. I’m still farming that AY neck, everyone in my guild is farming AY and it’s hard to get someone to throw me a bone. I have given away 2 AY daggers though because for some reason the RNG loves me there too and I’ve been blessed with 4. Could use the axe, but ok going double daggers. I will need to transmute the entire set though, not looking forward to that.

Because AY has been a farming fest I went ahead and bought Deadly in the traits I wanted. That turned out to be an expensive prospect but worth it in the end so I could put my Briarheart to rest. BH still has its uses with VO + pale order for solo content and 4 man with fake healers along for the ride. Speaking of VO it’s kind of a niche set but doesn’t get anywhere near the use of its Magicka equivalent FG. Mainly because magicka has lousy sustain which is in bad need of some balancing, but I digress though that leads me to my next personal observation.

I’ve been semi blessed with FG getting the inferno (training trait) on my first ever run. In my 25-30 runs since I’ve managed to get a neck, a waist and some shoes, all off trait, RNG playing with my emotions. The thing is I can sustain Siroria just fine, so I let all my groups get the extra FG before I take anything. The need it more than me so I will “suffer” with my BiS set in the meantime!

I pair that with MS which I farmed the body pieces on my own in a couple hours and some time ago had bought a couple MS inferno staves because apparently I only have the luck with the inferno staves from Cloudrest. The irony being now I run Siroria inferno with a Maelstrom backbar and those MS inferno staves don’t see much use at all.

I’ve got Medusa, BSW, War maiden and Overwhelming surge that I pretty much never use either, Medusa I will on magplar eventually with FG if I ever complete the set.

I’m the end I’m only really using one a a few sets on either stam or mag not because there is lack of variety but because they are simply more effective to get the job done.

regime211

iksde wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Flaaklypa wrote: »

pvp---> while stam is incredibly strong in pvp, much better than mags in execute, due to the current proc sets. a magden has 2x the pressure of a stamnb for example. and a magden who can just activate their mag procs (which are broken as ***), use northern wind and spam heals while killing people around them.

What alternate universe did you come from? Anyway: Welcome!

I was asking myself the same.
Last time I checked, all common proc sets dealt physical and poison damage. Where are the magicka proc sets other than Vateshran?

Brp destro, calurion, winter born, defending warrior, overwhelming surge, just to name the most popular ones.
I will say the new oblivions foe is defo too weak when compared to something like unleashed, which has about as much dmg as icy conjuror but can apply to multiple targets.
Stam has more proc variety, but let's be real onlya few are used.
Oh grothdaar, zaan also both very strong and used even on Stam these days.

and yet I see literally nonstop stamina procs, everywhere but barely see magica proc in my death recap if even

I see plenty zaan, vate destro grothdaar etc in my death recaps.

zaan along with new arena destro is easy to break, destro even not hard to outheal at all, grothdar deal very low dmg

and it is hard to outheal 2-4 dots you get from single skill and you cant even just get out of them as they are just at you along with pushing proc user on you

it is funny how I dont have single problem with magica procs because they are so obvious or just not very op (I myself use calurian on my magblade and Im thinking to drop it as I dont see much helping me at all with kills in most fights because fo its cooldown
and yet I get literally melted by stam proc sets, dots, which I cant get away from them and outheal under preassure unlike magica procs

This is what I was more or so getting at, stam just has more proc sets with higher damage then magicka sets which I found ridiculous.

Raideen

All I know is that the DPS I see tearing up dungeons are always stamina. Anytime I have polled someone asking them what they ran/their build because they were simply annihilating bosses, it was always stamina.

regime211

Raideen wrote: »

All I know is that the DPS I see tearing up dungeons are always stamina. Anytime I have polled someone asking them what they ran/their build because they were simply annihilating bosses, it was always stamina.

This is very true