actually, pvp heal changes did make ball groups stronger. . .

Wing

not being hyperbolic, i have solo PvP'd since launch, i recall joining a pretty high end pvp guild for like a week a couple years back because i got an invite, but left fairly quickly as im just too much of a lone wolf.

but the recent heal changes, correct me if im wrong, but thinking it over you can no longer heal others as a solo player correct? your heals will not hit anyone other then you.

but groups can still heal each other, correct?

so. . .

the field of pugs cannot heal each other.

but the ball group roomba'ing them down can heal each other just fine?



i dont want to hear "group"

i want to know if the scenario is correct:

25ish people solo puging the front line, vs a stacked ball group of 12.

the 25 can do nothing to aid each other.

the 12 can spam radiant regen, purge, etc. on each other.

correct?



once again, i dont want to hear "just group"

i want to confirm that scenario as correct.

quote from the fall of reach:
Covenant vessels swarmed though the Reach System in five-ship crescent formations. The remaining
UNSC ships fled before them . . . those that could still move. Those ships too damaged to outrun the
Covenant were blasted with plasma and laser fire.

Ranger209

3 layers of shields used to get cries for nerf sorc. What should 10 layers of heals get? Nerf ball groups...

Faded

Wing wrote: »

i dont want to hear "group"

i want to know if the scenario is correct:

25ish people solo puging the front line, vs a stacked ball group of 12.

the 25 can do nothing to aid each other.

the 12 can spam radiant regen, purge, etc. on each other.

correct?



once again, i dont want to hear "just group"

i want to confirm that scenario as correct.

Yes. That's the situation.

Who could have foreseen that tilting the playing field would tilt the playing field.

Wing

Faded wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

i dont want to hear "group"

i want to know if the scenario is correct:

25ish people solo puging the front line, vs a stacked ball group of 12.

the 25 can do nothing to aid each other.

the 12 can spam radiant regen, purge, etc. on each other.

correct?



once again, i dont want to hear "just group"

i want to confirm that scenario as correct.

Yes. That's the situation.

Who could have foreseen that tilting the playing field would tilt the playing field.

i read that in my head in the driest of sarcasm XD

VaranisArano

Correct. It's not the most likely on scenarios, but yes, those are 25 ungrouped players who can't heal or buff each other despite being in the same faction. They just so happen to be fighting the same enemies.

It's not just about faction stacks, of course. Say that a 12-man ball group is fighting two 6-man small scale groups. It's no longer a 12v12 fight. It's a ball group vs two smaller groups who can't support or heal each other.

ZOS nerfed everyone who isn't in a 12-man group or 100% a self-sufficient solo player.

Worse, as we know well, the difference between a 12-man ball group and a 12-man PUG raid is laughable. Yet ZOS did nothing to the sort of ball group who likes to take an out of the way keep to farm PUGs. This change makes it easier for ball groups to farm.

idk

Why are the 25 that are solo running together but not grouping? When I play solo I am not running with others. If I am near a keep under attack I am hunting gankers or killing the siege from the ground.

I do not like the change and all I am saying is the hypothetical situation presented is not of 25 solo players but 25 people running in a group but choosing not to group.

itscompton

idk wrote: »

Why are the 25 that are solo running together but not grouping? When I play solo I am not running with others. If I am near a keep under attack I am hunting gankers or killing the siege from the ground.

I do not like the change and all I am saying is the hypothetical situation presented is not of 25 solo players but 25 people running in a group but choosing not to group.

Yes 25 people making their own decisions about where to be and when to be there. They might show up at the same keep fight but then go 10 different ways after. No worrying about staying on crown and no worrying about being relegated to spamming the same ability or two as your role in a group.
And when you're playing solo and all those gankers are gone and the siege is dead but there is still an enemy ball group in the keep I suppose you just leave so they can have the keep back?

VaranisArano

idk wrote: »

Why are the 25 that are solo running together but not grouping? When I play solo I am not running with others. If I am near a keep under attack I am hunting gankers or killing the siege from the ground.

I do not like the change and all I am saying is the hypothetical situation presented is not of 25 solo players but 25 people running in a group but choosing not to group.

25 solo players is not the likeliest of scenarios. However, though rather unlikely, the description of how the grouping changes impact that scenario is correct.

But if we want to discuss better hypothetical, similar situations with less players happen all the time. At its simplest, how many times do two players head off to retake the same resource without stopping to group up first? I'll solo resources, but I can't say how many times I'm joined by another player or I'm following someone else in.

Before this change, I'd log into Cyrodiil and see that, say, two of three resources were flagged at Drakelowe. Okay, there'll be action there!

I transit there. There's a few players already there and a few more trickling in. We're not a cohesive group. Most of the players there aren't grouped up so much as, like me, they saw the action on the map and figured we'd get to Drake before the AD raid knocks down the front door. If they are in a group, its a small scale one. When the raid shows up, we're able to heal and buff each other.

Now? Everybody who responded to the situation at Drake would have to group up if we wanted to heal/buff each other. Maybe even form a tiny Group 2 if there are more than 12 of us. Otherwise we're at a big disadvantage vs the AD group who can heal and buff each other.


ZOS pretty much killed the informal grouping that used to be a big part of Cyrodiil's open world PVP. It makes it less of a faction-based mode and more "I'm playing with my group, the rest of you just happen to be fighting the same enemies" PVP mode.

Wing

idk wrote: »

Why are the 25 that are solo running together but not grouping? When I play solo I am not running with others. If I am near a keep under attack I am hunting gankers or killing the siege from the ground.

I do not like the change and all I am saying is the hypothetical situation presented is not of 25 solo players but 25 people running in a group but choosing not to group.

Why is it that when people are in an empty space, they will group together, rather than stand alone?


if the intent is for Cyro to be group orientated only, why is it not a queue like dungeons? why dont we just force you to group, and then if you leave the group, you get kicked from Cyro.


Fengrush had a little chat about the solo healers and being annoyed that they are essentially the zerg. the 40+ that just push the front line.

i wonder how annoying PvP would be if it was literally just 3 factions of 4ish ball groups a piece PvDooring backline keeps.

i doubt they would have fun simply trying to proxy det stack on crown each other when they are all just healing and purging through each others stuff.



i think we need all kinds, thats what this pvp was initially designed around.

and i dont know what Dev is defending the literal 3-4 problem skills that if addressed would seriously go a long way to fix pvp.

-purge should be limited to single target or synergies and their related cooldowns.
-hots should only be on ground target skills and not be on smart group spammables like radiating regen


this group change was implemented almost solely because of radiating regen, why the enacted a whole systemic change rather then fix one of the most problematic skills in the game ever, is beyond me.