IC User Experience - Needs drastic changes

Kwoung

VaranisArano wrote: »

In any case, I don't think there's any point to debating the profit-per-hour of Imperial City vs Craglorn. Craglorn is always going to be the easier farm for new players to get into because you can get nirncrux as a level 3 straight out of the tutorial and you don't have to do anything more than dodge mobs for a no-risk run. (I know, I made my fortune on nirncrux as a Vet 4 player back when Craglorn was a Vet 11 adventure zone and the wasps would straight up murder you.)

Craglorn farming is a little ridiculous in that regard. The buy-in is very low, and the rewards scale very well as you level/rank up crafting. All you have to do is running around picking up resources - that's something new players learn to do quickly.

PvPvE zones like Imperial City will never, ever have that level of rewards for that low of risk. The buy-in to hit the level where the rewards really start to scale with experience and skill, is quite high. Then add in that most players don't like PVP enough to learn to be even competent at it. So you'd have to vastly increase the rewards...which would then mostly benefit the players who actually know how to PVP, not the players who merely want the rewards, but don't want the risk of PVP.


"Oh, but if we add better rewards, more players will learn so they can get them!"

That's why, when ZOS put leads in Imperial City, everyone prepared for PvPvE before farming the bosses, right?

Haha, haha, no they did not. They complained bitterly that PVP happened in a PvPvE zone when all they wanted was the lead. They begged for PVE-only versions of Imperial City so they could farm in peace and quiet.

And that's why this and other threads are complaining that the risk of losing their Tel Var is just too punishing. They don't want greater rewards for the current level of risk (as you seem to be suggesting). They want the current rewards for none of the risk. Better rewards might get players into PVP kicking and screaming all the way, but it doesn't make them like it.

And personally, I'd rather look at solutions that appeal to players who actually like Imperial City, as opposed to bribing PVEers who hate it.

I probably should not have used Craglorn, it is an extreme example. We run a weekly harvest party in my guild and the top harvesters are generally NOT in Craglorn and easily get between 100-200K/hr harvesting. Average Joe can make 100k+ though in Craglorn without special gear, skills, etc... So lets not get hung up on Craglorn, it wasn't the point. 45 min in Kynes can net a 50K Motif plus great gear, an hour of zone dailies yesterday in Wrothgar netted me about 150K in loot and the list goes on across a ton of different activities. 2 hours in IC the other night hanging with guildies ended up netting me 426 Telvar... pffft, complete waste of time other than having fun with friends doing something different.

Its just my take, but if you want people to learn and actively participate in an activity, it needs to be worthwhile. I do Cyrodiil, because it is totally worthwhile. Prior to the most recent patches, it was the only way to get a decent amount of transmute stones, which are infinitely valuable, and get basically free gear off The Golden, the Alliance Vendors, etc... to boot. Does IC offer any of that, what is anyone's motivation to "git gud", gear up and give it a whirl? I have more PVP sets banked than I can to think about, even still I despise IC. It is no fun and always ends with a bad taste, something that never happens in Cyrodiil, where even on the worst day you walk out with some decent rewards.

Would people do trials if sub-par gear and rewards dropped in them? Probably not and they would be devoid of players as well.

Kwoung

I should probably add, most people don't PVP just because they love PVP, they do it for the rewards and end up having fun because of that. Cyrodiil would be mostly empty as well, if was simply a place to go kill each other and get nothing but bragging rights.

Grimlok_S

Kwoung wrote: »

I should probably add, most people don't PVP just because they love PVP, they do it for the rewards and end up having fun because of that. Cyrodiil would be mostly empty as well, if was simply a place to go kill each other and get nothing but bragging rights.

If that's the case, I guess I'm fine not being "most people". I fart around in IC because it is generally less laggy than Cyrodiil, as my rural connection isn't that great to begin with.

Yeah, you'll see the odd 24-man rolling through from time to time, but otherwise there are enough solo or small group opportunities to keep me entertained.

IAmIcehouse

IC is a PvP environment that rewards PvE. You need to change your expectations. Whenever you step foot in IC you need to expect to die, and your Tel Var count is only half as high as it says.

Frankly, if you're not comfortable with that, IC is not for you. There's plenty of PvE content if you're looking for riskless farming.

Dojohoda

Well, IC is the only place in this game with this unique risk and some of us actually like it.

There is an easy way to leave when you want to go to the bank. I was watching a streamer fighting a werewolf in IC. The werewolf suddenly disappeared but was still logged in. He had queued for cyrodiil, and yes, this can be done even while in combat.

Next don't send salty whispers to the person who was rightly fighting in a PVP area, which is what the werewolf did. Apparently the werewolf was farming and was offended at having to defend himself in a PVP area.

To describe the fight, the werewolf ran around a line of sight object and ah-wooed until he vanished.

Vanagrand

renne wrote: »

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

IC is a really fun zone to fight in. There are a lot of really cool places to fight that you just don't get in other environments.

I am not sure what would draw that initial group of people there but better rewards for pvp in general is long overdue.

Absolutely this. IC is a neat as hell zone and it's really disappointing how vacant it is. I do wonder how much of that really is because the pull of what you can buy with tel var just... aren't that great. It makes me wonder what people go into Cyro for vs like... what they would ACTUALLY go into IC for.

Sorcerers are far more comfy in Cyro, the player base in IC is more experienced and tryharder that the huge zergs of pveers in cyrodil(not saying there are not good players ofc, probably the best ones play cyro, but speaking generally). And some classes, i would say the typical block block block dawnbreaker-dizz-execute feel like if they are in a tower of cyrodil but the entire map is the tower feeling extremely comfy there.

Saying that, im seeing quite a lot of cyro type of groups in IC lately after my short break for Christmas.

divnyi

IC would definitely profit from some rewamp, but you should not eliminate the risk/reward. I like how this zone gives Lineage 2 PvP vibes.

I don't like capturing mechanics in IC. And the way it works, it is very profitable to just join a winning faction and farm in a ball group, since bosses give the biggest profits (nothing else in IC gives even close to those values). If there is no clear winner, profits go down a lot, since there is no full district bonus.

District bonus should work just for this one district, in my opinion, with some big (like +100% or +150%) bonus. And increase tel var drops from the regular mobs on the surface, so grinding the zone, defending one zone (and making you a target) would be a profitable thing.

Now, this will allow players to actually control districts and make profits out of that, without boss farm. This would make opposition factions who have fewer numbers stay in the game and fight for control & profits.

As for tel var rewards part, I can see it going like this: you can't pick telvars from your bank, but can bank them. When you die, all your tel vars got automatically banked (maybe some cut applies? x0.8 would seem appropriate).
Your killer gets half.

Adjust x2 x3 x4 modifiers to bigger values, as of now there is no reason to run at x4 when x3 is almost the same but much lower cost.