Question about group size and healing changes.. Also a suggestion and criticism

mrwizardguy

Where and in which patch notes was the changes to group size and healing listed? I have been out of the loop and have not been able to find anything on this.

Overall, I like that I can heal my group members now over random players. However, it feels lore-breaking to be a HOLY TEMPLAR GLOWING WITH SPARKLING LIGHT standing near a mass of players doing NOTHING as they die.

Not only that but it renders healers utterly useless if not in a group. It is a bit over the top. What if you don't have a group yet but you spawn at an outpost with a huge fight going on? WELL, guess i'll just stand here and let all these people die. LOL.

So here is my suggestion: Adjust healing so it PRIORITIZES your group over non-group members.

The algorithm:

IF all group members are at full health, enable healing and cleansing of non-group members.
IF a group member is below full health or debuffed, heal and cleanse group members only.

This will still incentivize having a healer in your group, and it will still limit the potential for multiple groups of 12 trying to work together.

Also, Zenimax should hire a team and actually optimize the game to do what it was made for. But lets not beat this dead animal any further.

redspecter23

The idea isn't to make your life difficult. The idea is to reduce calculations and increase server performance as well as encourage grouping (up to 12) and disable large groups with cross healing.

Knowing the goal, your suggestion is counterproductive to that goal. I get that you want to cross heal, but when taken to extremes, the result is crippling lag and performance issues.

mrwizardguy

redspecter23 wrote: »

The idea isn't to make your life difficult. The idea is to reduce calculations and increase server performance as well as encourage grouping (up to 12) and disable large groups with cross healing.

Knowing the goal, your suggestion is counterproductive to that goal. I get that you want to cross heal, but when taken to extremes, the result is crippling lag and performance issues.

I suppose players would probably just have 2 groups of 12, all dps. Then have two healers outside the group ghosting them around the map. Thus getting around the change.. Shame we can't just optimize the game for what it was made for.

VaranisArano

redspecter23 wrote: »

The idea isn't to make your life difficult. The idea is to reduce calculations and increase server performance as well as encourage grouping (up to 12) and disable large groups with cross healing.

Knowing the goal, your suggestion is counterproductive to that goal. I get that you want to cross heal, but when taken to extremes, the result is crippling lag and performance issues.

ZOS said that none of the changes made a big difference for players, performance wise. They changed it because they liked player behaviors during those tests. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/544305/details-for-aoe-testing-in-cyrodiil#latest

So yes, ZOS does apparently think that healers should stand by, letting players who aren't in their group die.

redspecter23

VaranisArano wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

The idea isn't to make your life difficult. The idea is to reduce calculations and increase server performance as well as encourage grouping (up to 12) and disable large groups with cross healing.

Knowing the goal, your suggestion is counterproductive to that goal. I get that you want to cross heal, but when taken to extremes, the result is crippling lag and performance issues.

ZOS said that none of the changes made a big difference for players, performance wise. They changed it because they liked player behaviors during those tests. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/544305/details-for-aoe-testing-in-cyrodiil#latest

So yes, ZOS does apparently think that healers should stand by, letting players who aren't in their group die.

Yes, they do want that, but they are thinking on a larger scale. They don't want 50 healers cross healing 5 different groups of players. Even if they say it's because of player behavior, I'd have a hard time believing this won't improve performance at least a tiny amount.

idk

mrwizardguy wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

The idea isn't to make your life difficult. The idea is to reduce calculations and increase server performance as well as encourage grouping (up to 12) and disable large groups with cross healing.

Knowing the goal, your suggestion is counterproductive to that goal. I get that you want to cross heal, but when taken to extremes, the result is crippling lag and performance issues.

I suppose players would probably just have 2 groups of 12, all dps. Then have two healers outside the group ghosting them around the map. Thus getting around the change.. Shame we can't just optimize the game for what it was made for.

Are you suggesting that healers running solo, not grouped, will be able to heal anyone in their alliance? I did not get that from what Gina posted.

VaranisArano

redspecter23 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

The idea isn't to make your life difficult. The idea is to reduce calculations and increase server performance as well as encourage grouping (up to 12) and disable large groups with cross healing.

Knowing the goal, your suggestion is counterproductive to that goal. I get that you want to cross heal, but when taken to extremes, the result is crippling lag and performance issues.

ZOS said that none of the changes made a big difference for players, performance wise. They changed it because they liked player behaviors during those tests. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/544305/details-for-aoe-testing-in-cyrodiil#latest

So yes, ZOS does apparently think that healers should stand by, letting players who aren't in their group die.

Yes, they do want that, but they are thinking on a larger scale. They don't want 50 healers cross healing 5 different groups of players. Even if they say it's because of player behavior, I'd have a hard time believing this won't improve performance at least a tiny amount.

Don't move the goalposts. "Improving performance a tiny amount" is a far cry from saying healers should happily accept being the only spec in Cyrodiil who can no longer be effective except when grouped up because of "crippling lag and performance issues." Everyone else can still zergsurf the faction stack to their heart's content, but oh no, not healers.

If ZOS had found that less cross-healing and smaller groups actually fixed performance and crippling lag, most players would probably be in favor, regardless of what it did to their preferred playstyle. I would be! But they didn't. They said the tested changes "do not have a significant enough impact on improving the overall player experience" to warrant changing them. The latest changes were because "we liked the behavioral changes they brought."

What ZOS apparently likes:
Healers forced to PUG or join PVP guilds to heal their faction mates.
Players forced to PUG or join PVP guilds if they don't want to run self-sufficient, solo builds.

Now, I'm sure ZOS would say they like the tactics and increased grouping that result from reduced cross-healing in a faction-stack too. But that only underscores that, for ZOS, forcing healers to group up or be ineffective (in a way that's true for no other build in Cyrodiil) is a feature not a bug. So the OP's suggestion probably won't happen.

But the OP is right that ZOS' desired behavior includes making healers watch their faction mates die, unable to heal them for no reason other than that they aren't in their group.

Thanks, ZOS. You're doing a wonderful job of reminding why I like playing a PVP healer.

Greasytengu

dont see why that cant make the group only healing limited to people in groups, or people in what the game considered to be a large group (more than 4)

mrwizardguy

redspecter23 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

The idea isn't to make your life difficult. The idea is to reduce calculations and increase server performance as well as encourage grouping (up to 12) and disable large groups with cross healing.

Knowing the goal, your suggestion is counterproductive to that goal. I get that you want to cross heal, but when taken to extremes, the result is crippling lag and performance issues.

ZOS said that none of the changes made a big difference for players, performance wise. They changed it because they liked player behaviors during those tests. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/544305/details-for-aoe-testing-in-cyrodiil#latest

So yes, ZOS does apparently think that healers should stand by, letting players who aren't in their group die.

Yes, they do want that, but they are thinking on a larger scale. They don't want 50 healers cross healing 5 different groups of players. Even if they say it's because of player behavior, I'd have a hard time believing this won't improve performance at least a tiny amount.

I agree with the other poster on here.. This was not implemented with performance in mind but to force a certain type of grouped gameplay. The optimization problem goes far beyond the smart healing algorithm.

Even so, if there is a performance boost, then my suggested solution would still provide that much of the time. During a fight my team mates are always damaged, meaning I will be healing only them 90% of the time. I think it is a fair compromise.

Wolfpaw

Healing restricted within your party of 12 is terrible. Not supporting green bar guildies as they fight in front of you is lame...one big invisible wall.

We have adjusted tactics to running multiple 12m groups in our large guild, but coordinating multiple groups in one area is a mess.

A lack of variety and visibility of crown icons above leaders is a coordination issue hopefully already being worked on. A variety of color, & guild crest would be very helpful. I would look at GW2 wvwvw solutions.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Commander