Empowered Grasp and Necro Healers

YandereGirlfriend

Pardon if this is old news, but I was wondering:

With the recent(ish) changes to Empowered Grasp (provides group Empower for 5 seconds) as well as Empower itself (buff persists for the duration rather than being consumed on attacking) is anyone using this for stack-and-burn PvE fights?

The value of having group Empower cannot really be overstated, especially for Magicka compositions, and now a group does not even have to dedicate an entire tanking set (Galenwe's) toward obtaining it.

Nor is it any particular burden on a Necro Healer, as it's a simple enough task to cast it every 5th GCD while also maintaining your Elemental Catalyst uptime as well as the rest of your rotation.

I won't be surprised if the answer is: "LOL! We've been using this for two patches already!" but I figured I'd ask anyway.

Dracane

It certainly makes sense to me. Grasp is one of 2 good ability sources for empower.

I found that empower still has issues when you use it for yourself. Mainly regarding mage's guild empower.
By the time you are done casting mage light or entropy, due to the global cooldown you already lost 1 out 3 seconds empower. So you can not get more than 2 light attacks off.

The next problem is that empower does not actually empower light attacks. Lets say you shoot a light attack while empower is active and by the time it arrives empower is out, it gets no bonus damage.

I find empower quite underwhelming still. Might of the guild needs to last at least 4 seconds to make it worthwhile.

YandereGirlfriend

I'm somewhat surprised that there hasn't been more interest in this skill.

Now I'm curious as to how many have even actually used it since last patch. It seems as though everyone saw the negative reaction from the PvP community to its introduction and then wrote it off for PvE as well.

Could it be better? Of course it could, but I do encourage people to try it out.

@Dracane I would love to see the Might of the Guild given another second or two. I wonder though if it's possible to use it in the same weaving pattern as Elemental Weapon? That the first Light Attack that is Empowered isn't your next Light Attack but rather the Light Attack that preceded the Mage's Guild skill that proc'd the passive (assuming that it is still en route to the target)? If it works like that then you could still get three Empowered Light Attacks out of the three second Empower duration.

Dracane

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I'm somewhat surprised that there hasn't been more interest in this skill.

Now I'm curious as to how many have even actually used it since last patch. It seems as though everyone saw the negative reaction from the PvP community to its introduction and then wrote it off for PvE as well.

Could it be better? Of course it could, but I do encourage people to try it out.

@Dracane I would love to see the Might of the Guild given another second or two. I wonder though if it's possible to use it in the same weaving pattern as Elemental Weapon? That the first Light Attack that is Empowered isn't your next Light Attack but rather the Light Attack that preceded the Mage's Guild skill that proc'd the passive (assuming that it is still en route to the target)? If it works like that then you could still get three Empowered Light Attacks out of the three second Empower duration.

Yes, this is possible. Though is it wise? Empower is nice, though not nearly as powerful as you would think. It is not nearly 40% more damage. It is much better to go light attack+spammable instead of light attack+let's say entropy or grasp.

In my eyes, empower is exclusively something to prebuff and weaving with entropy or so is quite trolly and not effective. So yea, the duration needs to be increased.

And regarding your topic; I feel like grasp is one of the big things that makes Necromancer attractive in a group. Both in pvp and pve. I mean, combat prayer is beloved and used too and essentially works the same way.

Recapitated

https://eso-u.com/articles/empowering_grasp_what_changed_and_how_good_is_it

BohnT2

The skill is trash.
You either decide to empower your pets which is only useful on the mender or you use the trash effect the skill offers which is a waste anyway in pvp.

In PvE you don't need the extra healing.

You're giving up bar space for a skill that contradicts itself, that's not needed in many cases and that relies on the mender to actually heal reliable.

This skill is one of the worst ones they've have made and should be on top of the list of skills which should be reworked

YandereGirlfriend

@BohnT This thread isn't about Empowered Grasp in PvP though.

In PvE, the draw isn't the Empower on your minions (which, I agree, is quite bad indeed) but rather being able to provide your entire group with Empower on the Light Attacks, that, per the article that @Recapitated linked, can increase group DPS by a full 5%. That's like getting the same DPS increase as Z'ens or Martial Knowledge but from a single ability. I would say that's pretty powerful.

@Dracane I wasn't meaning to suggest using any Mage's Guild skills as a spammable (that would be crazy!), only that the Empower can occur retroactively after you cast the skill to any Light Attack that is still currently in the air. The takeway simply being that you can get three Light Attacks worth of Empower from Might of the Guild, it just isn't the next three Light Attacks that you make after you cast a Mage's Guild skill.

WrathOfInnos

Scalding rune is actually a pretty good “spammable” as long as you cast one other skill between runes.

Dracane

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Scalding rune is actually a pretty good “spammable” as long as you cast one other skill between runes.

Empower should not force you to gimp yourself with folly like this. It should actually empower rather than weakening your damage in the end.

I think making sure that most sources of empower last 5 seconds would be good enough. It is an interesting buff and I am happy they try to make it more accessible. It only requires some more uptime and I would use it wholeheartedly. 3 seconds is too short and not everyone is a templar with 100% uptime.

Starlight_Whisper

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I'm somewhat surprised that there hasn't been more interest in this skill.

Now I'm curious as to how many have even actually used it since last patch. It seems as though everyone saw the negative reaction from the PvP community to its introduction and then wrote it off for PvE as well.

Could it be better? Of course it could, but I do encourage people to try it out.

@Dracane I would love to see the Might of the Guild given another second or two. I wonder though if it's possible to use it in the same weaving pattern as Elemental Weapon? That the first Light Attack that is Empowered isn't your next Light Attack but rather the Light Attack that preceded the Mage's Guild skill that proc'd the passive (assuming that it is still en route to the target)? If it works like that then you could still get three Empowered Light Attacks out of the three second Empower duration.

Takes time to see a shift in things. Still it's only good for healers so might be an issue

katorga

I think the point is that you buff your group with empower 100% of the time.

Sephyr

BohnT2 wrote: »

The skill is trash.
You either decide to empower your pets which is only useful on the mender or you use the trash effect the skill offers which is a waste anyway in pvp.

In PvE you don't need the extra healing.

You're giving up bar space for a skill that contradicts itself, that's not needed in many cases and that relies on the mender to actually heal reliable.

This skill is one of the worst ones they've have made and should be on top of the list of skills which should be reworked

Agreed. Thanks for pointing this out.

Bashev

Does the empower buff applies on the caster or only for the allies?

p00tx

BohnT2 wrote: »

The skill is trash.
You either decide to empower your pets which is only useful on the mender or you use the trash effect the skill offers which is a waste anyway in pvp.

In PvE you don't need the extra healing.

You're giving up bar space for a skill that contradicts itself, that's not needed in many cases and that relies on the mender to actually heal reliable.

This skill is one of the worst ones they've have made and should be on top of the list of skills which should be reworked

This isn't used for the healing. It's to increase light attack dmg, which is a huge part of our dmg (when light attacks work properly).

BohnT2

p00tx wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

The skill is trash.
You either decide to empower your pets which is only useful on the mender or you use the trash effect the skill offers which is a waste anyway in pvp.

In PvE you don't need the extra healing.

You're giving up bar space for a skill that contradicts itself, that's not needed in many cases and that relies on the mender to actually heal reliable.

This skill is one of the worst ones they've have made and should be on top of the list of skills which should be reworked

This isn't used for the healing. It's to increase light attack dmg, which is a huge part of our dmg (when light attacks work properly).

I know that it's not used for the healing.

My whole point is that the ability is so bad that in no content it's used for what it was ment to be: a CC.
In PvP it's not used at all and in PvE as others mentioned its used to give empower to the group.

Meaning you could completely rework the ability to do something actually viable which magnecro desperately needs while the reason it's used for, granting empower to the group, can be preserved to the new version of the skill.

Starlight_Whisper

BohnT2 wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

The skill is trash.
You either decide to empower your pets which is only useful on the mender or you use the trash effect the skill offers which is a waste anyway in pvp.

In PvE you don't need the extra healing.

You're giving up bar space for a skill that contradicts itself, that's not needed in many cases and that relies on the mender to actually heal reliable.

This skill is one of the worst ones they've have made and should be on top of the list of skills which should be reworked

This isn't used for the healing. It's to increase light attack dmg, which is a huge part of our dmg (when light attacks work properly).

I know that it's not used for the healing.

My whole point is that the ability is so bad that in no content it's used for what it was ment to be: a CC.
In PvP it's not used at all and in PvE as others mentioned its used to give empower to the group.

Meaning you could completely rework the ability to do something actually viable which magnecro desperately needs while the reason it's used for, granting empower to the group, can be preserved to the new version of the skill.

So thinking about it... doesn't sorc have this exact same problem with encase. The skill just doesn't work well for dps.

katorga

Bashev wrote: »

Does the empower buff applies on the caster or only for the allies?

I tested last night, it always applies empower to me when I cast it.

In theory you use it to apply permanent empower to the dps group, which buff something they do do 50% of the time, LA, by 40%.