Healing as a Role

Wolfpaw

PvP

ESO combat should go back to the core trinity concept of healing as a role, not as a one skill click gameplay.

As combat continues to walk...run...sprint farther away from the trinity system more combat balance problems continue to rise with classes able to perform all roles within one build.

No build should be tanky, with great burst damage, & heals to sustain self/others.

Self heals for non healing roles should have a place in non competitive combat like overland & solo arena. Ring of the Pale Order?

shorthand-no testing-not a dev-my 2cents

• Remove healing gains through weapon & spell damage
• Remove healing gains through health
• Reduce or add diminishing returns on healing gains through mag/stam stat stacking
• Separate critical chance into two different stats, crit healing & crit damage
• Adjust battle spirit, mundus Healing stat, sets, & solo content.

agree, disagree, thoughts
thanks for reading~

OlumoGarbag

good one.

Now riddle me this where should healing power come from then if not stats? What about solo PvP? What about battlegrounds as solo quer?

If this is a joke,it's a good one

idk

Wolfpaw wrote: »

ESO combat needs to go back to the core trinity concept of healing as a role,

You stated PvP at the start. If it is intended this thread be a PvP discussion, then the PvP subforum would work better. As it is, the responses will not be limited.

To the part I quoted, ESo has never had a core trinity concept at any point, so there is no going back. Even before launch, I remember a dev gameplay video that essentially noted how a player could do some DPS and heal. I think it was the video where they are fighting a dolmen and Atro WB in Stormhaven.

While I will not go into each bullet, I will point out the most problematic bullet noticed in the OP. Adding a new layer to critical chance actually adds two layers as we already have separate calculations for stam and mag, so this turns that into four.

In the end, ESO already has what is probably the most complicated combat system of the major MMORPGs as it is. We do not need to make it more complicated, which is essentially what most of the bullet points do.

The other important distinction is ESO's combat design is a big part of what separates it from games such as WoW and FF14 and how healing work is part of it. It is a major reason for ESO's success.

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

good one.

Now riddle me this where should healing power come from then if not stats? What about solo PvP? What about battlegrounds as solo quer?

If this is a joke,it's a good one

Olumo brings up a good point that the idea does not take into consideration the formulas for healing.

idk

Oh, and I forgot, the entire suggestion of making it so damage dealers cannot heal themselves effectively in Cyrodiil literally forces players to group with the changes Zos is making.

It will be interesting seeing a solo player take on a group of players and not be able to heal themselves very well. Oop, should have joined a group.

Wolfpaw

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

good one.

Now riddle me this where should healing power come from then if not stats? What about solo PvP? What about battlegrounds as solo quer?

If this is a joke,it's a good one

1. I didn't say heal scaling should be removed from stats, & diminishing returns would prevent a 60k mag beast dd from healing like a beast.

2. Solo PvP would find similar opponents. Heals as a Solo DD would be weaker for both. One rule set wouldn't be different for the other?

3. PUG bg's and you get what you get like pve.

4. "where should healing power come from" ....Minor/major mend, crit chance, flat number +heal (+4 outgoing, or like the update to Healers Habit +5), stat mag/stam, mundus, procs, enchants, etc...

Luckylancer

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

good one.

Now riddle me this where should healing power come from then if not stats? What about solo PvP? What about battlegrounds as solo quer?

If this is a joke,it's a good one

If everyone depends on stats that just increase tankyness, damage or healing we achieve what OP wants.

Current example: magsorcs get tankyness from max magicka, damage from max magicka and healing from max magicka.

OP's dream example: sets will have spell power and healing power diffrently. Anything life steal related based on damage will be limited. This way people will have to use dedicated healing, damaging and tanking builds.

I dont support this, I just explain.

NoMoreChillies

unpopular opinion:
Self healing should be majorly reduced. Healing while doin damage is causing the problems.

idk

Wolfpaw wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

good one.

Now riddle me this where should healing power come from then if not stats? What about solo PvP? What about battlegrounds as solo quer?

If this is a joke,it's a good one

1. I didn't say heal scaling should be removed from stats, & diminishing returns would prevent a 60k mag beast dd from healing like a beast.

2. Solo PvP would find similar opponents. Heals as a Solo DD would be weaker for both. One rule set wouldn't be different for the other?.

1. They were correct that you did not address where healing power would come from. This is especially important since you did say eliminate WD/SD from the healing equation while also saying there should be diminishing return from stam/mag. The way it is worded it seems very much this applies to healers.

2. Solo PvP would find similar opponents? This seems to really miss the point. The entire idea is literally saying if you want decent heals you must join a group. If you want to run solo then just deal with it.

Wolfpaw

idk wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

good one.

Now riddle me this where should healing power come from then if not stats? What about solo PvP? What about battlegrounds as solo quer?

If this is a joke,it's a good one

1. I didn't say heal scaling should be removed from stats, & diminishing returns would prevent a 60k mag beast dd from healing like a beast.

2. Solo PvP would find similar opponents. Heals as a Solo DD would be weaker for both. One rule set wouldn't be different for the other?.

1. They were correct that you did not address where healing power would come from. This is especially important since you did say eliminate WD/SD from the healing equation while also saying there should be diminishing return from stam/mag. The way it is worded it seems very much this applies to healers.

2. Solo PvP would find similar opponents? This seems to really miss the point. The entire idea is literally saying if you want decent heals you must join a group. If you want to run solo then just deal with it.

1. That's because it was read incorrectly. Updated.

2. Yes that's correct, no more tower humping & tree hugging.

Not "deal with it", pick your target(s) better. Other solo players will have similar built in solo dd heals as you.

idk

Wolfpaw wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

good one.

Now riddle me this where should healing power come from then if not stats? What about solo PvP? What about battlegrounds as solo quer?

If this is a joke,it's a good one

1. I didn't say heal scaling should be removed from stats, & diminishing returns would prevent a 60k mag beast dd from healing like a beast.

2. Solo PvP would find similar opponents. Heals as a Solo DD would be weaker for both. One rule set wouldn't be different for the other?

3. PUG bg's and you get what you get like pve.

4. "where should healing power come from" ....Minor/major mend, crit chance, flat number +heal (+4 outgoing, or like the update to Healers Habit +5), stat mag/stam, mundus, procs, enchants, etc...

The force point has been added by the OP.

Minor and major mending or merely a % buff and like critical chance it is based on the base healing.

On top of that, the suggestion eliminates SD/WD from the healing equations and puts a diminishing return on mag/stam which so heals would be reduced overall making the effect of the mending buffs and critical chance not as good, mathematically speaking.

The idea literally forces healers to stack their main stat while putting a diminishing return on that stat. They have no choice and are forced to be weaker by all accounts.

idk

Wolfpaw wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

good one.

Now riddle me this where should healing power come from then if not stats? What about solo PvP? What about battlegrounds as solo quer?

If this is a joke,it's a good one

1. I didn't say heal scaling should be removed from stats, & diminishing returns would prevent a 60k mag beast dd from healing like a beast.

2. Solo PvP would find similar opponents. Heals as a Solo DD would be weaker for both. One rule set wouldn't be different for the other?.

1. They were correct that you did not address where healing power would come from. This is especially important since you did say eliminate WD/SD from the healing equation while also saying there should be diminishing return from stam/mag. The way it is worded it seems very much this applies to healers.

2. Solo PvP would find similar opponents? This seems to really miss the point. The entire idea is literally saying if you want decent heals you must join a group. If you want to run solo then just deal with it.

1. That's because it was read incorrectly. Updated.

2. Yes that's correct, no more tower humping & tree hugging.

Not "deal with it", pick your target(s) better. Other solo players will have similar built in solo dd heals as you.

1. Oh, so they read it incorrectly? Ahh I see the edit for clarity. However, now we have no idea how this affects healers as they seem to still be able to do damage.

2. Maybe you missed the memo that no one in Crrodiil will be able to heal anyone else unless they are grouped since you seem to be suggesting solo players can still get heals. So again, the idea leans towards forced grouping or PvP extremely little heal support.

The idea still brings more complexity to the server computations, as I pointed out earlier. I do not see how that is addressed and I am pretty sure Zos is not wanting to add more server related lag to Cyrodil when they are desperately trying to reduce it.

zaria

idk wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

good one.

Now riddle me this where should healing power come from then if not stats? What about solo PvP? What about battlegrounds as solo quer?

If this is a joke,it's a good one

1. I didn't say heal scaling should be removed from stats, & diminishing returns would prevent a 60k mag beast dd from healing like a beast.

2. Solo PvP would find similar opponents. Heals as a Solo DD would be weaker for both. One rule set wouldn't be different for the other?.

1. They were correct that you did not address where healing power would come from. This is especially important since you did say eliminate WD/SD from the healing equation while also saying there should be diminishing return from stam/mag. The way it is worded it seems very much this applies to healers.

2. Solo PvP would find similar opponents? This seems to really miss the point. The entire idea is literally saying if you want decent heals you must join a group. If you want to run solo then just deal with it.

1. That's because it was read incorrectly. Updated.

2. Yes that's correct, no more tower humping & tree hugging.

Not "deal with it", pick your target(s) better. Other solo players will have similar built in solo dd heals as you.

1. Oh, so they read it incorrectly? Ahh I see the edit for clarity. However, now we have no idea how this affects healers as they seem to still be able to do damage.

2. Maybe you missed the memo that no one in Crrodiil will be able to heal anyone else unless they are grouped since you seem to be suggesting solo players can still get heals. So again, the idea leans towards forced grouping or PvP extremely little heal support.

The idea still brings more complexity to the server computations, as I pointed out earlier. I do not see how that is addressed and I am pretty sure Zos is not wanting to add more server related lag to Cyrodil when they are desperately trying to reduce it.

This, I expect this change will get even causal pvp guild groups will request dedicated healers like normal trial pugs ask for tanks and healers.

Wolfpaw

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

unpopular opinion:
Self healing should be majorly reduced. Healing while doin damage is causing the problems.

Hopefully a Champion system revamp will help with this issue.

zaria

Wolfpaw wrote: »

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

unpopular opinion:
Self healing should be majorly reduced. Healing while doin damage is causing the problems.

Hopefully a Champion system revamp will help with this issue.

While in guild chat, LFM tank and healer for vMA

Wolfpaw

zaria wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

unpopular opinion:
Self healing should be majorly reduced. Healing while doin damage is causing the problems.

Hopefully a Champion system revamp will help with this issue.

While in guild chat, LFM tank and healer for vMA

Old solo PvE content can be adjusted.

Zatox

I have a better idea - ZOS should remove "Healer" role from group finder and find the way to ged rid of tank role

zvavi

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Old solo PvE content can be adjusted.

You will not only have to adjust all the gear sets in existence, but also ALL PvE content. All the enemies. In all the quests. Changing the game into something entirely else than what it is today. A total revamp to the game's combat system.


Well I disagree. And my thoughts on it is that I like the combat system. If I wouldn't like it, I would be playing another game. Since it seems like you don't like it, you can try that approach.

idk

zvavi wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Old solo PvE content can be adjusted.

You will not only have to adjust all the gear sets in existence, but also ALL PvE content.

All the enemies. In all the quests. Changing the game into something entirely else than what it is today. A total revamp to the game's combat system.


Well I disagree. And my thoughts on it is that I like the combat system. If I wouldn't like it, I would be playing another game. Since it seems like you don't like it, you can try that approach

.

While I still suggest that the complexity it would add to the server-side calculations, hence load, it the bigger issue, you bring up a good point about having to adjust all the gear. Since spell damage would not apply to the healing all healer specific sets would need to have that removed and probably the addition of more sets that are specific to not having SD. Heck, the best-crafted set for magicka would be garbage for healers under this design.

PeterUnlustig

You are aware that the biggest source of healing in the game atm isnt from stats in PvP right? But rather procs.

Recapitated

OP you keep talking about this but nowhere have I ever seen you explain why you think the trinity is important in the first place. Neither for pve nor pvp. You write like you think we're all already on the same page about that, and we're not.

Why shouldn't builds be able to do all 3?

PvE groups are structured to work with the trinity. PvP encounters are not structured -- you can't guarantee two DDs, one healer, one tank. DD vs DD would mean first-strike advantage delivers the win, tank vs tank or healer vs healer would be interminable. PvP encounters have few tanking (construed as meatshield, not just defense) mechanics, Guard being pretty much the only one and it only works with a 1:1 ratio of tanks and DPS.

What exactly is the point here? What do you think it would achieve? How do you think players would respond to these changes and why would those adaptations be good for the game?

Sherrieg

I have been playing PVP in Cyrodiil exclusively for 5 years as a healer (I have 4 grand overlords and was working on my 5th) but I am done. I will miss it; but I simply cant play with the new parameters beginning on November 16th. Not being able to heal outside a group is simply unworkable for me. I just don't see that working unless it is a ball group and I enjoy casual play. I don't like the 12 person limit for group size either. I really feel that these changes will exclude the casual and beginning players.

zvavi

Sherrieg wrote: »

I really feel that these changes will exclude the casual and beginning players.

While it has nothing to do with the original post, I agree on this a whole lot.

Wolfpaw

Sherrieg wrote: »

I have been playing PVP in Cyrodiil exclusively for 5 years as a healer (I have 4 grand overlords and was working on my 5th) but I am done. I will miss it; but I simply cant play with the new parameters beginning on November 16th. Not being able to heal outside a group is simply unworkable for me. I just don't see that working unless it is a ball group and I enjoy casual play. I don't like the 12 person limit for group size either. I really feel that these changes will exclude the casual and beginning players.

I also don't care for the group cap, ball fighting, or group only healing restrictions at all.

but here we are all running ball group & 1vX builds...rest are just fodder - boring.