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Should BG MMR be removed?

Draevik
Draevik
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I personally don't care if I get destroyed in PVP, I just want to get quick queues and fight.

I am pretty sure having quicker queue times would be appealing to everyone.

What does everyone else think?

Should BG MMR be removed? 46 votes

Yes
39%
Solarikenfalcasternub18_ESODaemonaiactoshDalsinthus0lbertikusGrimlok_SOrange_fire_dragontt_rs3ecruPhoenixGreyMariusghost84Thanatos_insideDakkxAraneae6537KatechonnKhajiitLivesMattermustardSeed11 18 votes
No
60%
MurderMostFoullolo_01b16_ESOAektannAsysSaubonRhaegar75redspecter23TBoisTimeDazzlerGrigorijMalahevichSylosiFirstmepJierdanitKurtAngle2renneAznoxMirage131PeterUnlustigMizoreReyesSephyr 28 votes
  • Draevik
    Draevik
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    TBois wrote: »
    I think they should make it visible so that players know who they may be going up against.

    Edit: Even Pokemon has a visible ranking system.

    If it were just an indicator of PvP power instead of gating players behind an artificial wall I wouldn't mind MMR.
    I am not sure how it works in other games, but I think separating players and increasing queue times is worse than a newer player having no chance. Most people learn from these losses the most, especially when fighting great opponents on a regular basis.

    It is a double-edged sword as it has a chance of also deterring said new player from participating due to frustration. That is unfortunately always going to happen. With a quicker queue time at least the defeat doesn't leave such a sour taste .
  • nqvarihs
    nqvarihs
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    if you mean remove this joke of a 'mmr' we currently have for actual mmr then yeah

    otherwise no
  • TBois
    TBois
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    No
    Draevik wrote: »
    TBois wrote: »
    I think they should make it visible so that players know who they may be going up against.

    Edit: Even Pokemon has a visible ranking system.

    If it were just an indicator of PvP power instead of gating players behind an artificial wall I wouldn't mind MMR.
    I am not sure how it works in other games, but I think separating players and increasing queue times is worse than a newer player having no chance. Most people learn from these losses the most, especially when fighting great opponents on a regular basis.

    It is a double-edged sword as it has a chance of also deterring said new player from participating due to frustration. That is unfortunately always going to happen. With a quicker queue time at least the defeat doesn't leave such a sour taste .

    Some good points here, and I agree. Implementing a visible MMR would most likely need a more complex MMR system instead of one that is more about time played. I also think reducing the time to open up searches to a wider MMR for those with a high and low MMRs is completely necessary for the size of participation in BGs as it is.
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  • Firstmep
    Firstmep
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    No
    Draevik wrote: »
    TBois wrote: »
    I think they should make it visible so that players know who they may be going up against.

    Edit: Even Pokemon has a visible ranking system.

    If it were just an indicator of PvP power instead of gating players behind an artificial wall I wouldn't mind MMR.
    I am not sure how it works in other games, but I think separating players and increasing queue times is worse than a newer player having no chance. Most people learn from these losses the most, especially when fighting great opponents on a regular basis.

    It is a double-edged sword as it has a chance of also deterring said new player from participating due to frustration. That is unfortunately always going to happen. With a quicker queue time at least the defeat doesn't leave such a sour taste .

    The second scenarion where new players get put off by being destroyed is the usual scenarion already.

    Problem is that this game has terrible MMR system, you can lose 50 games in a row and still get put into matches with people that won 50 games in a row.

    Thing is, if we remove MMR, we remove the last little bit of a cushion new players have in bgs vs sweaty hardcore players.

    Of course you cant filter out players like this in cyrodiil, which is one of the main reasons for the neverending nerf posts and rage posts about just about everything on these forums.
  • redspecter23
    redspecter23
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    No
    They need to make the MMR work properly, not remove it completely.

    Ideally, we could see our MMR and those of the others in the group so we had proof the system was working, but this is just not the case so we guess while ZOS has the actual information and chooses not to share how broken MMR actually is.
  • Grimlok_S
    Grimlok_S
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    Yes
    If not removed, it should be adjusted from it's current implementation.

    At present, we know MMR ranking is increased by # games played, with little to no weight placed against score or kills earned.

    The current system only stands to increase queue times for players who play often.

    Before the resets, I was seeing 20+ minute queue times on my most played BG toons, while less used characters would be nearly instant. Those characters are now approaching 10 minute waits during prime time.

    This is the only game I have ever played that punishes players with wait times for queuing often, regardless of performance.
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  • Draevik
    Draevik
    ✭✭✭
    Grimlok_S wrote: »
    If not removed, it should be adjusted from it's current implementation.

    At present, we know MMR ranking is increased by # games played, with little to no weight placed against score or kills earned.

    The current system only stands to increase queue times for players who play often.

    Before the resets, I was seeing 20+ minute queue times on my most played BG toons, while less used characters would be nearly instant. Those characters are now approaching 10 minute waits during prime time.

    This is the only game I have ever played that punishes players with wait times for queuing often, regardless of performance.

    The only games I played extensive amounts of bgs on (aside from ESO of course) was Everquest 2 and SWTOR. In both of those I never experienced a wait time that I could remember.

    It never punished players for playing a lot even if they weren't that great they just wanted to have fun and PVP. Which in my opinion is how it should be, as it stands there will always be lopsided matches from at least one dominant player.

    Some matches you are just not going to win, it happens... But who cares? You have a few crappy matches but can constantly queue for matches and participate quickly. This is the best way to teach new players the ropes honestly, practice makes perfect.
  • SgtNuttzmeg
    SgtNuttzmeg
    ✭✭✭✭
    No
    They need to add MMR. The game already lacks it. XD
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  • Grimlok_S
    Grimlok_S
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    Yes
    Draevik wrote: »
    Grimlok_S wrote: »
    If not removed, it should be adjusted from it's current implementation.

    At present, we know MMR ranking is increased by # games played, with little to no weight placed against score or kills earned.

    The current system only stands to increase queue times for players who play often.

    Before the resets, I was seeing 20+ minute queue times on my most played BG toons, while less used characters would be nearly instant. Those characters are now approaching 10 minute waits during prime time.

    This is the only game I have ever played that punishes players with wait times for queuing often, regardless of performance.

    The only games I played extensive amounts of bgs on (aside from ESO of course) was Everquest 2 and SWTOR. In both of those I never experienced a wait time that I could remember.

    It never punished players for playing a lot even if they weren't that great they just wanted to have fun and PVP. Which in my opinion is how it should be, as it stands there will always be lopsided matches from at least one dominant player.

    Some matches you are just not going to win, it happens... But who cares? You have a few crappy matches but can constantly queue for matches and participate quickly. This is the best way to teach new players the ropes honestly, practice makes perfect.

    That's the kicker, I'm not even good!

    Yet, still get wait times queueing, just because I enjoy spending the majority of my playtime in what should be instant action - BGs.
    Light Attack Hero

    Class context
    Stamplar
    StamDK
    Stamsorc
    MagDK
    StamMAGStamden
    Magplar
    Stam NB
    Bomb NB
  • Orange_fire_dragon
    Orange_fire_dragon
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    Yes
    if we cannot see it, I dont see why have it imo.
  • Foto1
    Foto1
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    They need to add MMR. The game already lacks it. XD

    do you have any proof?
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  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
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    No
    The MMR system is not perfect, and should be improved if possible. But it's removal would be terrible for a lot of players who are just getting started in BGs. The skill gap is extremely wide between a new BG player and a very experienced one. Having nothing that attempts to segregate those two would lead to many negative experiences for the new players, and little challenge for the experienced ones.

    The few times that we've had MMR resets, or that I've got a new toon into BGs, have shown me that the MMR system does (at least somewhat) work as intended. The quality of the opponents I faced in those circumstances make it clear that I eventually don't face them after playing enough and moving up in MMR. Although the brief period of utter domination can be entertaining, I prefer the norm to be somewhat reasonable competition.
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  • Mirage131
    Mirage131
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    No
    Draevik wrote: »
    Grimlok_S wrote: »
    Some matches you are just not going to win, it happens... But who cares? You have a few crappy matches but can constantly queue for matches and participate quickly. This is the best way to teach new players the ropes honestly, practice makes perfect.

    This is 100% not the way to teach new players anything and they wouldn't be practicing anything at this point. Nuking new players is fun, but they gain nothing from getting nuked. If I kill new players the same way I go after people in bgs the only thing they learn is that I can kill them very quickly. We need a better MMR system that's all.
    Edited by Mirage131 on November 20, 2020 3:10PM
  • SgtNuttzmeg
    SgtNuttzmeg
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    No
    Foto1 wrote: »
    They need to add MMR. The game already lacks it. XD

    do you have any proof?

    I don't have any footage but just play them a lot. If you get good at them or know who is good at them you will see how often they get paired up with people that haven't quite reached their same skill level.

    Actually just watch a Fengrush stream, the amount of times he gets paired with or placed against players that are no where's near his skill level is crazy.

    I would actually like to see proof that MMR exists.
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  • Zekka
    Zekka
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    Barely any matchmaking to begin with, you can join the "high" MMR matches in a couple dozens matches even on fresh characters because the truth is there is not a lot of people playing BGs.
    And holy ***, make the matchmaking take classes and group composition into account at the very least. At this point I insta quit every time I see two nightblades with bows out in my team.
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