Ideas for improving players' adaptability to standard >combat< mechanics

Inaya1

In the discussion, they did not want to offend, humiliate, or something similar. The discussion is in the nature of reasoning for ideas (for zos) so that there will be improvements with this in the future. Everyone plays as they want and can, but people MUST calculate their strength before going into group content. And the game, in addition, should be fun and possibly a pleasant surprise all.

This discussion is aimed at help fixing it and convey this message to zos. For now is a SOLO game, but not an MMO, and not even a co-op with friends where you can have fun cos if it's too easy to play and you dont need any help in open world (quest enemies, dungeon bosses, public dungeons, open world mobs, etc) Oh yes, of course you cannot kill a dragon alone, you are not a dragonborn! (Haha, no, it can be done, but u need some brain)

Another serious problem of which a solution must be urgently found. The last thing that epitomized the whole community about the "unwillingness to think" is the boss in markarth. People just go to content en masse and do not understand at all that they are NOT ready for it.

They DO NOT understand that walking in "white" clothes and giving 15k dps for anyone, even in standard VET.DUNGEONS, which is passed by an ordinary group in 20 minutes, is passed with them IN 1.30 HOURS.

PEOPLE DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS SETS AND WHY THEY ARE NEEDED AT ALL. PEOPLE DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ARE MECHANICS AND WHAT TO DO WITH THEM.

This situation was better before, and I remember that. What could be the reasons for this chaos?

1) SOLO-orientation of the game. The game is created for beginners to such an extent that they feel no boundaries. There is no limit to the difficulty where the player will understand that his ass beaten, and that now he will have to think about how to kill this unfortunate "boss" or big mob, and not plug him to death with HA attacks with white or green 2H weapon. Or just dps zergling it with another casual ppl.

2) Large Descriptions: Large descriptions of items confuse the beginner and make it difficult to understand what it does and how it works. It's the same with skills, for example, if you take the same werewolf, you will simply be stunned by how much text there is on each skill. The only solution to this is to create an in-game assistant that will in a simplified form tell and prompt "what is this" and "what can be done about it" in battle. And yes, it’s time to make it so that it would be possible to see morphs of skills when you hover it in the skill menu, and not when distributing points at the altar. Of course, the addon solves this problem, but this is one of the reasons why people cannot often compare the benefits of this or that skill.

3) The standard setting of the game offers the player a very pale look of AOE, so people often don't notice it and die in them. It is clear that there is a setting for adjusting this, but many people do not know this, and as a standard for good they should be made bright red and light green FOR EVERYONE, and only then everyone, as they want, will change the intensity and color for themselves. Oh yes, and the player must be reminded of this the same. There is a fairly extensive selection of settings here, and I still either get confused about them, or generally learn something new from other people until now))

4) Significance of DPS and identification of the cause (lack of competitive effect). The standard rotation of skills does not show the casting time of each skill and how long it lasts, this can be confusing and greatly complicate the support of buffs / debuffs with this addon ActionDurationReminder helps a lot. In addition, no one sees DPS without Addons (LuiExtended, CombatMetrics, etc). Maybe it's time to make this main of the game?

Banana

You would think that most player's would do some homework if interested in the game by visiting one of the gurus websites and never pug unless you are prepared for the potential circus.

SirAndy

You're missing a very important point:
The vast majority of ESO players *are* casual players.

And unlike you, i don't use the term casual as an insult ...

Vevvev

Some casuals actually know how to play the game. Think you're angry at that one group of people who have no idea what Google is, refuse to learn, do whatever they want, and get angry when you give them pointers because you're "telling them what to do". Yes, I'm tired of those people to but you can do very little about them. Why premades are a thing and people don't like Pugging.

Mindcr0w

Inaya1 wrote: »

Everyone plays as they want and can, but people MUST calculate their strength before going into group content.

No.

They SHOULD calculate their strength before going into group content.

There is a difference.

Anyway, you are wasting your breath (keystrokes?) here. Every major MMO that has come out in the last 15 years and achieved any kind of longevity has been accused of being too casual friendly and gotten more casual friendly as time went on. And those that didn't do so died.

This is simply the reality of the modern MMO market, and it isn't going to change. Everyone talks a lot about how they want a more hardcore MMO experience, and how many other players out there also do, but every time a new MMO tries to cater to the "hardcore" crowd instead of attracting "casuals" it is a commercial flop and dies.

At least in terms of western MMO's.

idk

The vast majority of any MMORPG are casual players. Lower the financial bar for playing a game and that brings in players that are even more casual. That is what happened with ESO when they changed to a B2P model. The average skill level of players dropped significantly.

Add in the great difference between the top players and that of the lowest skill levels as we have in ESO and the situation is compounded even farther.

Zos has looked at raising the floor and lowering the ceiling but many players cried fowl specifically out of self-interest. One player did present a better solution than what Zos did but many players still wanted to protect their place in ESO as though somehow more casual players would begin to outperform them.

As for players not understanding gearing and skills, that is because they, themselves, do not try. Joining a guild or perusing information on the web goes a long way. Granted, it is harder to find good build info since the TF site pretty much died, but guilds are still a good place to find information to improve.

dcam86b14_ESO

Most of what you're stating are generalized assumptions.

Someone can be casual and still be better at the game than you and visevers.

Faiza

Every so often MMOs crop up that actively try to cater to players like the OP and create an environment very offputting to casual players.

Those games end up flopping for a reason lol.

Also, like others have said - there's a lot of reasons why someone may not be prepared going into a dungeon or trial, but its not necessarily just because they're casual.

Tbh...some players who invest a lot of time and effort into things like trials and dungeons are still bad even though you may not call them a casual lol.

Snow_White

Casuals pay the bills.

Dysprosium

Some people play the game to relax and take their mind of stresses in their lives. They don't want to speed run and and be the the most OP dps etc....they have other goals. There are enough players and content that everyone can play their style of play thanks to like minded guilds etc....

Linaleah

too many elitist players in this MMO lately. makes it into a very unwelcoming place.

DT-ARR

I’m a casual player by definition but have been playing on and off since 2016. On a good week i’m around 5hrs max in game due to having a job / wife / young child. And i play solo as a result. This time to myself in game though i value greatly and i do enjoy it. And yes, every now and then i take a stab at group content and have a difficult time being competitive and often get booted from the group.

This however is (in my mind) much more the result of ZOS completely flipping the in game meta on its head every. single. patch release.

I’ve said it before, it takes me a good month or longer just to farm a set, or that long to save the gold to buy off a guild trader. By the time i’ve actually accomplished that and developed a playstyle around it, the next patch release gets announced which invalidates virtually all the time spent. Rinse repeat. It is incredibly frustrating and i honestly dont know why i even bother most days.

If ZOS really wanted to raise the floor theyd stop completely overhauling the game every 2 months to give casual players a chance to actually compete / develop a build. But i also don’t think ZOS has even the faintest idea of what direction they want to go from one patch to the next. My 2cents

rptrainer

I'm a casual player too but I'm not the kind of person who refused to learn. I want to try endgame content but quoting the others here.

Linaleah wrote: »

too many elitist players in this MMO lately. makes it into a very unwelcoming place.

I know there are still some players in eso who's willing to teach. So, for now endgame content is out of reach for me.

A Lizard resident of Bangkorai PC Na

MaLTRaiN

If you are sooooo good in the game... just create a guild, join with godly people like you, go to dungeons, pledges and trials with them, dream about how many dps you do and be happy beating your guildmates in the logs statistics.

So many annoying "veterans" who think the game must be made for them... just fo...

Tsar_Gekkou

Snow_White wrote: »

Casuals pay the bills.

Nah, casuals are the ones who log in for an hour a week to sightsee. Regular players who actually spend hours in the game are the ones buying crates.

Tsar_Gekkou

Linaleah wrote: »

too many elitist players in this MMO lately. makes it into a very unwelcoming place.

It's not unwelcoming, it's just that most lower-skilled people don't care about learning. You just try to give a 5k dps snipe spammer some quick advice and they usually just ignore it or tell you to F-off, so you stop bothering to help people unless they ask first because asking shows you're willing to learn. If people aren't sure about something, they should just ask and they'll get tons of help, but people are antisocial and don't want to ask strangers for help.

Faiza

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

too many elitist players in this MMO lately. makes it into a very unwelcoming place.

It's not unwelcoming, it's just that most lower-skilled people don't care about learning. You just try to give a 5k dps snipe spammer some quick advice and they usually just ignore it or tell you to F-off, so you stop bothering to help people unless they ask first because asking shows you're willing to learn. If people aren't sure about something, they should just ask and they'll get tons of help, but people are antisocial and don't want to ask strangers for help.

Having been on both sides of this, in many different MMOs, if that's the response you're receiving I promise your "quick advice" isn't coming off as kind as you think it is.

People absolutely behave in anti-social ways...which contributes to why a lot of folks won't ask for help.

If you really feel like someone is a carry...just votekick and move on. If the problem truly is them, they'll straighten themselves out eventually. But if you're finding yourself with raised blood pressure consistently while playing with others...it's you.

Faiza

MaLTRaiN wrote: »

If you are sooooo good in the game... just create a guild, join with godly people like you, go to dungeons, pledges and trials with them, dream about how many dps you do and be happy beating your guildmates in the logs statistics.

So many annoying "veterans" who think the game must be made for them... just fo...

This. If PuGs are an issue...don't PuG.

bmnoble

Casual does not equal a bad player, I have encountered plenty of high CP players who are awful at doing damage or understanding mechanics, most of the time they were the first players calling to have someone else kicked from the group.

The problem is simple some people refuse to learn the game, when they join a group they expect to be carried most people don't want to put up with that so they kick them or leave themselves.

That problem will never fully go away no matter what you suggest, your only option is to group with people you know, you choose to do something with a random group you never know what you will end up with.

Nomadic_Atmoran

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Snow_White wrote: »

Casuals pay the bills.

Nah, casuals are the ones who log in for an hour a week to sightsee. Regular players who actually spend hours in the game are the ones buying crates.

I dont know what game you are playing but just about everyone has crate/crown store mounts. So I'd love to see the data you have that proves casuals aren't financially participating.

Tsar_Gekkou

Faiza wrote: »

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

too many elitist players in this MMO lately. makes it into a very unwelcoming place.

It's not unwelcoming, it's just that most lower-skilled people don't care about learning. You just try to give a 5k dps snipe spammer some quick advice and they usually just ignore it or tell you to F-off, so you stop bothering to help people unless they ask first because asking shows you're willing to learn. If people aren't sure about something, they should just ask and they'll get tons of help, but people are antisocial and don't want to ask strangers for help.

Having been on both sides of this, in many different MMOs, if that's the response you're receiving I promise your "quick advice" isn't coming off as kind as you think it is.

People absolutely behave in anti-social ways...which contributes to why a lot of folks won't ask for help.

If you really feel like someone is a carry...just votekick and move on. If the problem truly is them, they'll straighten themselves out eventually. But if you're finding yourself with raised blood pressure consistently while playing with others...it's you.

I see your pessimism but the quick advice comes off as kinder than you think. However, when you tell someone that they could do a lot more damage if they use a light attack in-between skills, or just ask them what sets are they running and you get stuff like "screw you let me play how I play," why bother lending a helping hand when that time and effort could be infinitely better spent elsewhere? And vote kicking doesn't work anymore unless it's a fake tank because people think it's toxic to kick someone for any reason other than fake queueing. I'm glad i'm not the type that gets high blood pressure from this game since leaving group and letting them struggle without me is easy enough.

Tsar_Gekkou

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Snow_White wrote: »

Casuals pay the bills.

Nah, casuals are the ones who log in for an hour a week to sightsee. Regular players who actually spend hours in the game are the ones buying crates.

I dont know what game you are playing but just about everyone has crate/crown store mounts. So I'd love to see the data you have that proves casuals aren't financially participating.

I don't think you know what casual means. Do you really think people who might touch the game for an hour a week are gonna spend more money than people who spend way more time in-game? That's like saying stores get more money from people who visit from other states once or twice a year than from people who actually live nearby and regularly go to those stores to spend money.

People think that casual is the opposite of end-game. It's not. Casual is someone who has a passing interest and won't dedicate as much time to something. Someone who plays for 3 hours every day but mostly roleplays or fishes isn't a casual just because they aren't spending that time running vet trials. A casual player can be good at a game but only play once in a while, and hardcore players can be garbage while spending much more time in the game.

Gythral

You think it's bad now
roll on the 25th: Then you will really need to avoid the queu system!!!

but , then the queue system only exists because most MMO players are 'casuals' these days (well ever since the advent of WOW (tbh))

Ackwalan

The nerve of some people that play this game for fun and not to your standards.

SilverBride

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Snow_White wrote: »

Casuals pay the bills.

Nah, casuals are the ones who log in for an hour a week to sightsee. Regular players who actually spend hours in the game are the ones buying crates.

Casual refers to playstyle, not amount of time played. I play on average 4 to 5 hours a day, sometimes more, and I'm most definitely a casual player.

I've never bought a crate and never will. I did however buy crowns once, and may again for purchasing furnishings. And I'm ESO+. So yea, this casual is paying the bills.

Daemons_Bane

Have someone explained to OP what mmo means yet? I think he's got it wrong when he claims that ESO is not such a game

To me it sound like yet another person thinking that the game should be tailored to fit what he likes.. ESO IS a casual game, and it's doing fine.. a big portion of the players are people, like myself, who primarily enjoy Tamriel.. we come to experience one of our favourite worlds in a new way.. That is why, imo, that this game caters more to a solo friendly experience.. there are tons of games that offer the experience that OP wants, but only one mmo offers you Tamriel.. And that experience would be soured if you had to tag along with another player all the time

Wolfpaw

the correct response
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

zaria

Gythral wrote: »

You think it's bad now
roll on the 25th: Then you will really need to avoid the queu system!!!

but , then the queue system only exists because most MMO players are 'casuals' these days (well ever since the advent of WOW (tbh))

What happens the 25th?

Zer0_CooL

I don't know OPs problem, and at this point i think im too casual to understand...

Golevan

It's a game ... just a game
Play and don't bother others to play

Linaleah

zaria wrote: »

Gythral wrote: »

You think it's bad now
roll on the 25th: Then you will really need to avoid the queu system!!!

but , then the queue system only exists because most MMO players are 'casuals' these days (well ever since the advent of WOW (tbh))

What happens the 25th?

undaunted event, I think? where people would be running dungeons for tickets. except they also drop in normal and you do not need to do a random to get them either, just A dungeon.

that said... this game... is NOT a friendly game if you don't have the twitch reflexes, if your muscle memory sucks, if you do not have excessive amount of time and/or motivation to practice all the little peculiarities of combat in this game on a target dummy until you have a metronome beat ingrained into your brain. and the thing is, I with my "horrifyingly low" under 10k dps - can solo a decent chunk of group dungeons on normal (and plan to do so for the event, even though it takes me a little longer. better then to deal with keyboard heroes who are horrified at spending 6 minutes in fungal grotto 1 instead of 5). high dps is NOT an absolute requirement especially for normal non DLC dungeons, except for in the minds of the "leet" players who want to go fast fast fast. but do those players want any changes that would make decent dps more accessible to more people? nope. ah well.