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Penetration should be adjusted.
JinMori
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I probably already made this post in the past.
I think penetration should be adjusted, especially now that it's quite easy to overpen, allow negative resistances, ofc, the amount of damage you get shouldn't be the same as it was before you hit the pen cap otherwise it would always be the best stat, but it shouldn't become outright useless.
In pve penetration cps are basically irrelevant, and it's still quite easy to overpen.
This would also reduce the problem of: am i hitting the pen cap? Am i overpenning, what if with this group i overpen? Etc.... It's just annoying to think about and to deal with.
Edited by JinMori on November 6, 2020 3:43AM I think penetration should be adjusted, especially now that it's quite easy to overpen, allow negative resistances, ofc, the amount of damage you get shouldn't be the same as it was before you hit the pen cap otherwise it would always be the best stat, but it shouldn't become outright useless.
In pve penetration cps are basically irrelevant, and it's still quite easy to overpen.
This would also reduce the problem of: am i hitting the pen cap? Am i overpenning, what if with this group i overpen? Etc.... It's just annoying to think about and to deal with.
0
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Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The top players enjoy that kind of puzzle. That means you have to have multiple different sets and change and reset your CP depending on the Trial you are doing.
If you are just running normal trials or whatever overpenning basically doesn't matter, oh no you are missing out on a little dps but you are probably not skilled enough to maximise your DPS anyway, you'd get more dps with better weaving than having a little more damage and a little less penetration.5 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Narvuntien wrote: »The top players enjoy that kind of puzzle. That means you have to have multiple different sets and change and reset your CP depending on the Trial you are doing.
If you are just running normal trials or whatever overpenning basically doesn't matter, oh no you are missing out on a little dps but you are probably not skilled enough to maximise your DPS anyway, you'd get more dps with better weaving than having a little more damage and a little less penetration.
I don't think it's enjoyable, and i am gonna ask those high tier players if they actually enjoy such trivial things.
It's just an annoyance.Edited by JinMori on November 6, 2020 5:00AM3 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like the Penetration cap but I agree that Penetration is more than a bit inflated right now.
ZOS was attempting to reduce the need to min/max different sets for trials, sets that more casual players don't have access to or don't think to use because they are a loss to personal DPS. But, IMO, they went too far in the opposite direction.
Rather than buffing Major Breach to Aetherius and adding Minor Breach as basically a freebie on the main tank taunt, a better direction would have been to simply add more sources of class-ability-based group Penetration so that instead of min/maxing sets for optimum group Penetration, you would simply be encouraged to include as many different classes as possible.
IMO, re-balancing Penetration so that having all six classes brought a unique means of reaching the Penetration Cap would have been an unmitigated good. Move it away from gear (which is exclusionary toward casual players) and give a reason to be more inclusive in your raid composition.3 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I just wish pen was shown on our stat sheets. Console player so no add-ons.
edit spellingEdited by Hotdog_23 on November 6, 2020 5:06AM10 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am really looking forward to Minor and Major Breach changes. Alkosh was forced on tanks and Power of the Light was forced on healers for way too long.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »I am really looking forward to Minor and Major Breach changes. Alkosh was forced on tanks and Power of the Light was forced on healers for way too long.
Those changes are already there.0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »I am really looking forward to Minor and Major Breach changes. Alkosh was forced on tanks and Power of the Light was forced on healers for way too long.
Those changes are already there.
Yeah but I haven't attended a HM in a DLC trial ever since patch because of crashes and other technical issues. So I couldn't see and enjoy tanks without Alkosh and healers without PotL in action outside of PTS environment yet.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »I am really looking forward to Minor and Major Breach changes. Alkosh was forced on tanks and Power of the Light was forced on healers for way too long.
Those changes are already there.
Yeah but I haven't attended a HM in a DLC trial ever since patch because of crashes and other technical issues. So I couldn't see and enjoy tanks without Alkosh and healers without PotL in action outside of PTS environment yet.
I see, well in short it basically makes penetration less important, which is a good thing.
The bad thing is that overpen does not give you damage in any way so it's a wasted stat.0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »I am really looking forward to Minor and Major Breach changes. Alkosh was forced on tanks and Power of the Light was forced on healers for way too long.
Those changes are already there.
Yeah but I haven't attended a HM in a DLC trial ever since patch because of crashes and other technical issues. So I couldn't see and enjoy tanks without Alkosh and healers without PotL in action outside of PTS environment yet.
I see, well in short it basically makes penetration less important, which is a good thing.
The bad thing is that overpen does not give you damage in any way so it's a wasted stat.
And that promotes thoughtful character building and group optimization (e.g. Tremorscale in stam compositions). This is a good thing, isn't it?3 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭I probably already made this post in the past.
I think penetration should be adjusted, especially now that it's quite easy to overpen, allow negative resistances, ofc, the amount of damage you get shouldn't be the same as it was before you hit the pen cap otherwise it would always be the best stat, but it shouldn't become outright useless.
In pve penetration cps are basically irrelevant, and it's still quite easy to overpen.
This would also reduce the problem of: am i hitting the pen cap? Am i overpenning, what if with this group i overpen? Etc.... It's just annoying to think about and to deal with.
It is ok.
When you fire gun/bow/sword if you overpepetrate target it can hit near tree, than wall or only tree but who cares will be wall hit or not ? Damage to target is the same right ?
If it do not, less damage then.Edited by AyaDark on November 6, 2020 6:57AM0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I probably already made this post in the past.
I think penetration should be adjusted, especially now that it's quite easy to overpen, allow negative resistances, ofc, the amount of damage you get shouldn't be the same as it was before you hit the pen cap otherwise it would always be the best stat, but it shouldn't become outright useless.
In pve penetration cps are basically irrelevant, and it's still quite easy to overpen.
This would also reduce the problem of: am i hitting the pen cap? Am i overpenning, what if with this group i overpen? Etc.... It's just annoying to think about and to deal with.
It is ok.
When you fire gun/bow/sword if you overpepetrate target it can hit near tree, than wall or only tree but who cares will be wall hit or not ? Damage to target is the same right ?
If it do not, less damage then.
I think i get the gist of what you are saying although it is really poorly formulated, but i disagree.
Lots of rpg games have a negative resistance mechanic, how does it work in a logical sense?
Basically you are penetrating armor, after you penetrate armor/resistance, you actually make the enemy more susceptible to something like how vampires are more susceptible to fire because they are undead.Edited by JinMori on November 6, 2020 7:26AM1 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »I am really looking forward to Minor and Major Breach changes. Alkosh was forced on tanks and Power of the Light was forced on healers for way too long.
Those changes are already there.
Yeah but I haven't attended a HM in a DLC trial ever since patch because of crashes and other technical issues. So I couldn't see and enjoy tanks without Alkosh and healers without PotL in action outside of PTS environment yet.
I see, well in short it basically makes penetration less important, which is a good thing.
The bad thing is that overpen does not give you damage in any way so it's a wasted stat.
And that promotes thoughtful character building and group optimization (e.g. Tremorscale in stam compositions). This is a good thing, isn't it?
I mean, it really doesn't in my opinion, you just press a button and change your cp, hardly a meaningful choice.0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have mixed feelings about it. With the new values, it does seem to dumb down group optimization, and I always enjoy a good group buff set like Alkosh. However, armor and penetration was always pretty boring to work out compared to more dynamic buffs like Major Force or Major Slayer (where coordination and timing matter, and you can never have too much). So now hitting the pen cap is easier, you don’t have to think or plan much for it, and this makes content more accessible to more groups, which is good.
Overall I guess the changes are fine. The pendulum will probably swing back the other way soon and we’ll all be running Lover Mundus or Sharpened weapons, but for now it’s smooth sailing.1 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »I have mixed feelings about it. With the new values, it does seem to dumb down group optimization, and I always enjoy a good group buff set like Alkosh. However, armor and penetration was always pretty boring to work out compared to more dynamic buffs like Major Force or Major Slayer (where coordination and timing matter, and you can never have too much). So now hitting the pen cap is easier, you don’t have to think or plan much for it, and this makes content more accessible to more groups, which is good.
Overall I guess the changes are fine. The pendulum will probably swing back the other way soon and we’ll all be running Lover Mundus or Sharpened weapons, but for now it’s smooth sailing.
I mean, looking at some recent changes that is probably possible.
CRIT BUFF, CRIT NERF, DOT BUFF, DOT NERFS!1 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Penetration gives more stats than other, so it is limited and it is OK.
If you put 1900 on mage class in penetration it will be hard to get overpenetration.
Even if you do uptime is not 100% so you get more, than if you had less of it.
On stamina, to get overpenetration you need a lot of it.
Some set or mundus.
For raid content people do not take that gear. It was made for solo game to get more dps.
As example i use mundus on penetration, in perfect raid i must just change it to another.
But i always do not change because i am lazy - and all is OK.
The same CP, not the best but some standart for me.
I never change it just for some run.
The same for pvp.
You can have any penetration. If it do not work like this all would be only penetration.Edited by AyaDark on November 6, 2020 7:53AM0 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭first make sure Breach properly apply to razor caltrops and allow my DPS to do a proper parse again without spassing the F out.
Also sitting there with a spread sheet trying to figure out penetration is boring.
Allow for more penetration is fine.
PVP'ers hate everything, I suggest expanding battle spirit to get proc sets, penetration spell damage and physical damage to 1. They have done more than enough damage to PVE.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »first make sure Breach properly apply to razor caltrops and allow my DPS to do a proper parse again without spassing the F out.
Also sitting there with a spread sheet trying to figure out penetration is boring.
Allow for more penetration is fine.
PVP'ers hate everything, I suggest expanding battle spirit to get proc sets, penetration spell damage and physical damage to 1. They have done more than enough damage to PVE.
It's not about having more penetration necessarily, it's about making pen not a dead stat after you reach cap.
I really do not get why some people are against it.
Like looking at your group, and adding numbers to see how much pen you have and then adjusting your cp, is NOT FUN, it's just an annoyance, it's hardly a meaningful choice, it's worthless.
Instead if you allow negative resistances, you don't really have to worry about overpen, people will still run alkosh and other penetration stuff because it's just so good, and you can spread out your cps a bit more evenly, and penetration will not be a dead stat if you reach cap, because it still does something.
To me, the argument just seems kinda pedantic, but what about group composition? What about theorycrafting? Who gives a.... You are gonna run alkosh anyway regardless so who cares? You just don;t have to worry about how many points you have into piercing/spell erosion as much anymore, and pen is no longer a dead stat after cap, winner winner chicken dinner, literally.Edited by JinMori on November 6, 2020 8:05AM0 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »first make sure Breach properly apply to razor caltrops and allow my DPS to do a proper parse again without spassing the F out.
Also sitting there with a spread sheet trying to figure out penetration is boring.
Allow for more penetration is fine.
PVP'ers hate everything, I suggest expanding battle spirit to get proc sets, penetration spell damage and physical damage to 1. They have done more than enough damage to PVE.
It's not about having more penetration necessarily, it's about making pen not a dead stat after you reach cap.
I really do not get why some people are against it.
Like looking at your group, and adding numbers to see how much pen you have and then adjusting your cp, is NOT FUN, it's just an annoyance, it's hardly a meaningful choice, it's worthless.
Instead if you allow negative resistances, you don't really have to worry about overpen, people will still run alkosh and other penetration stuff because it's just so good, and you can spread out your cps a bit more evenly, and penetration will not be a dead stat if you reach cap, because it still does something.
To me, the argument just seems kinda pedantic, but what about group composition? What about theorycrafting? Who gives a.... You are gonna run alkosh anyway regardless so who cares? You just don;t have to worry about how many points you have into piercing/spell erosion as much anymore, and pen is no longer a dead stat after cap, winner winner chicken dinner, literally.
It is not dead stat.
We just do not want to play -all to penetration + tanks full to penetration support + heals all to penetration sets.
Why it is not a problem that you have 100% crit chanse ?
Why not 1000% when it crits and strikes 10 more times ?1 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »first make sure Breach properly apply to razor caltrops and allow my DPS to do a proper parse again without spassing the F out.
Also sitting there with a spread sheet trying to figure out penetration is boring.
Allow for more penetration is fine.
PVP'ers hate everything, I suggest expanding battle spirit to get proc sets, penetration spell damage and physical damage to 1. They have done more than enough damage to PVE.
It's not about having more penetration necessarily, it's about making pen not a dead stat after you reach cap.
I really do not get why some people are against it.
Like looking at your group, and adding numbers to see how much pen you have and then adjusting your cp, is NOT FUN, it's just an annoyance, it's hardly a meaningful choice, it's worthless.
Instead if you allow negative resistances, you don't really have to worry about overpen, people will still run alkosh and other penetration stuff because it's just so good, and you can spread out your cps a bit more evenly, and penetration will not be a dead stat if you reach cap, because it still does something.
To me, the argument just seems kinda pedantic, but what about group composition? What about theorycrafting? Who gives a.... You are gonna run alkosh anyway regardless so who cares? You just don;t have to worry about how many points you have into piercing/spell erosion as much anymore, and pen is no longer a dead stat after cap, winner winner chicken dinner, literally.
It is not dead stat.
We just do not want to play -all to penetration + tanks full to penetration support + heals all to penetration sets.
Why it is not a problem that you have 100% crit chanse ?
Why not 1000% when it crits and strikes 10 more times ?
Did you even read what i said? Of course you didn't.
When did i ever suggest that it's a dead stat period?
And look, on the high end you are gonna run those sets anyway. Let's be real here. There's no way you are not gonna run alkosh, in an optimized group, or crusher infused, or someone, even a healer using power of the light for the minor breach, and you know what's gonna happen? Dd are gonna put literally 0 damn points into erosion or piercing, that's what actually happens.Edited by JinMori on November 6, 2020 8:23AM1 -
lolo_01b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In my opinion it's time to increase boss resistances. Maybe even make them different, for different types of damage. It's quite laughable that a fire dragon raid boss has less fire resistance than the average healer in a group that is facing him.1 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »In my opinion it's time to increase boss resistances. Maybe even make them different, for different types of damage. It's quite laughable that a fire dragon raid boss has less fire resistance than the average healer in a group that is facing him.
i don't think so, otherwise they would basically nullify the changes they have done so far that clearly were made to make penetration more accessible for the average group.0 -
Saubon✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »And that promotes thoughtful character building and group optimization (e.g. Tremorscale in stam compositions).
It does, but look at magblades, we overpen with just basic debuffs. Pen might not need an adjustment, but concentration passive does.0 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »first make sure Breach properly apply to razor caltrops and allow my DPS to do a proper parse again without spassing the F out.
Also sitting there with a spread sheet trying to figure out penetration is boring.
Allow for more penetration is fine.
PVP'ers hate everything, I suggest expanding battle spirit to get proc sets, penetration spell damage and physical damage to 1. They have done more than enough damage to PVE.
It's not about having more penetration necessarily, it's about making pen not a dead stat after you reach cap.
I really do not get why some people are against it.
Like looking at your group, and adding numbers to see how much pen you have and then adjusting your cp, is NOT FUN, it's just an annoyance, it's hardly a meaningful choice, it's worthless.
Instead if you allow negative resistances, you don't really have to worry about overpen, people will still run alkosh and other penetration stuff because it's just so good, and you can spread out your cps a bit more evenly, and penetration will not be a dead stat if you reach cap, because it still does something.
To me, the argument just seems kinda pedantic, but what about group composition? What about theorycrafting? Who gives a.... You are gonna run alkosh anyway regardless so who cares? You just don;t have to worry about how many points you have into piercing/spell erosion as much anymore, and pen is no longer a dead stat after cap, winner winner chicken dinner, literally.
It is not dead stat.
We just do not want to play -all to penetration + tanks full to penetration support + heals all to penetration sets.
Why it is not a problem that you have 100% crit chanse ?
Why not 1000% when it crits and strikes 10 more times ?
Did you even read what i said? Of course you didn't.
When did i ever suggest that it's a dead stat period?
And look, on the high end you are gonna run those sets anyway. Let's be real here. There's no way you are not gonna run alkosh, in an optimized group, or crusher infused.
You will not. If you have alternate for it. And you had not. Now you have.
And you ask ask to play only 1 style you like and we do not like before.
Now you have alternate for it, you can play not alkosh. And i do not want to play alkosh, it is not designed for tank - why he must be abused to wear it ?
It is not right. We have alternate for it now because of iverpenetration and you ask to remove any alternate of how to play ?0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »And that promotes thoughtful character building and group optimization (e.g. Tremorscale in stam compositions).
It does, but look at magblades, we overpen with just basic debuffs. Pen might not need an adjustment, but concentration passive does.
This is what actually happens.
"And look, on the high end you are gonna run those sets anyway. Let's be real here. There's no way you are not gonna run alkosh, in an optimized group, or crusher infused, or someone, even a healer using power of the light for the minor breach, and you know what's gonna happen? Dd are gonna put literally 0 damn points into erosion or piercing, that's what actually happens." Really thoughtful.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »first make sure Breach properly apply to razor caltrops and allow my DPS to do a proper parse again without spassing the F out.
Also sitting there with a spread sheet trying to figure out penetration is boring.
Allow for more penetration is fine.
PVP'ers hate everything, I suggest expanding battle spirit to get proc sets, penetration spell damage and physical damage to 1. They have done more than enough damage to PVE.
It's not about having more penetration necessarily, it's about making pen not a dead stat after you reach cap.
I really do not get why some people are against it.
Like looking at your group, and adding numbers to see how much pen you have and then adjusting your cp, is NOT FUN, it's just an annoyance, it's hardly a meaningful choice, it's worthless.
Instead if you allow negative resistances, you don't really have to worry about overpen, people will still run alkosh and other penetration stuff because it's just so good, and you can spread out your cps a bit more evenly, and penetration will not be a dead stat if you reach cap, because it still does something.
To me, the argument just seems kinda pedantic, but what about group composition? What about theorycrafting? Who gives a.... You are gonna run alkosh anyway regardless so who cares? You just don;t have to worry about how many points you have into piercing/spell erosion as much anymore, and pen is no longer a dead stat after cap, winner winner chicken dinner, literally.
It is not dead stat.
We just do not want to play -all to penetration + tanks full to penetration support + heals all to penetration sets.
Why it is not a problem that you have 100% crit chanse ?
Why not 1000% when it crits and strikes 10 more times ?
Did you even read what i said? Of course you didn't.
When did i ever suggest that it's a dead stat period?
And look, on the high end you are gonna run those sets anyway. Let's be real here. There's no way you are not gonna run alkosh, in an optimized group, or crusher infused.
You will not. If you have alternate for it. And you had not. Now you have.
And you ask ask to play only 1 style you like and we do not like before.
Now you have alternate for it, you can play not alkosh. And i do not want to play alkosh, it is not designed for tank - why he must be abused to wear it ?
It is not right. We have alternate for it now because of iverpenetration and you ask to remove any alternate of how to play ?
But you do use alkosh. I mean you have the choice, but in an optimized group, you are gonna run alkosh. Unless you wanna be a hinderance to your group.Edited by JinMori on November 6, 2020 8:27AM0 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »first make sure Breach properly apply to razor caltrops and allow my DPS to do a proper parse again without spassing the F out.
Also sitting there with a spread sheet trying to figure out penetration is boring.
Allow for more penetration is fine.
PVP'ers hate everything, I suggest expanding battle spirit to get proc sets, penetration spell damage and physical damage to 1. They have done more than enough damage to PVE.
It's not about having more penetration necessarily, it's about making pen not a dead stat after you reach cap.
I really do not get why some people are against it.
Like looking at your group, and adding numbers to see how much pen you have and then adjusting your cp, is NOT FUN, it's just an annoyance, it's hardly a meaningful choice, it's worthless.
Instead if you allow negative resistances, you don't really have to worry about overpen, people will still run alkosh and other penetration stuff because it's just so good, and you can spread out your cps a bit more evenly, and penetration will not be a dead stat if you reach cap, because it still does something.
To me, the argument just seems kinda pedantic, but what about group composition? What about theorycrafting? Who gives a.... You are gonna run alkosh anyway regardless so who cares? You just don;t have to worry about how many points you have into piercing/spell erosion as much anymore, and pen is no longer a dead stat after cap, winner winner chicken dinner, literally.
It is not dead stat.
We just do not want to play -all to penetration + tanks full to penetration support + heals all to penetration sets.
Why it is not a problem that you have 100% crit chanse ?
Why not 1000% when it crits and strikes 10 more times ?
Did you even read what i said? Of course you didn't.
When did i ever suggest that it's a dead stat period?
And look, on the high end you are gonna run those sets anyway. Let's be real here. There's no way you are not gonna run alkosh, in an optimized group, or crusher infused.
You will not. If you have alternate for it. And you had not. Now you have.
And you ask ask to play only 1 style you like and we do not like before.
Now you have alternate for it, you can play not alkosh. And i do not want to play alkosh, it is not designed for tank - why he must be abused to wear it ?
It is not right. We have alternate for it now because of iverpenetration and you ask to remove any alternate of how to play ?
But you do use alkosh. I mean you have the choice, but in an optimized group, you are gonna run alkosh. Unless you wanna be a hinderance to your group.
In optimized group you must not run anything you do not want.
The way only alkosh was the choise is abusing the fact that you only can go penetration before and now there are other options and it is ok.
If you only have 1 support set you only can - chouse it. If it is handred of the same you have a choise of any of them. So it is ok.Edited by AyaDark on November 6, 2020 8:30AM0 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »first make sure Breach properly apply to razor caltrops and allow my DPS to do a proper parse again without spassing the F out.
Also sitting there with a spread sheet trying to figure out penetration is boring.
Allow for more penetration is fine.
PVP'ers hate everything, I suggest expanding battle spirit to get proc sets, penetration spell damage and physical damage to 1. They have done more than enough damage to PVE.
It's not about having more penetration necessarily, it's about making pen not a dead stat after you reach cap.
I really do not get why some people are against it.
Like looking at your group, and adding numbers to see how much pen you have and then adjusting your cp, is NOT FUN, it's just an annoyance, it's hardly a meaningful choice, it's worthless.
Instead if you allow negative resistances, you don't really have to worry about overpen, people will still run alkosh and other penetration stuff because it's just so good, and you can spread out your cps a bit more evenly, and penetration will not be a dead stat if you reach cap, because it still does something.
To me, the argument just seems kinda pedantic, but what about group composition? What about theorycrafting? Who gives a.... You are gonna run alkosh anyway regardless so who cares? You just don;t have to worry about how many points you have into piercing/spell erosion as much anymore, and pen is no longer a dead stat after cap, winner winner chicken dinner, literally.
It is not dead stat.
We just do not want to play -all to penetration + tanks full to penetration support + heals all to penetration sets.
Why it is not a problem that you have 100% crit chanse ?
Why not 1000% when it crits and strikes 10 more times ?
Did you even read what i said? Of course you didn't.
When did i ever suggest that it's a dead stat period?
And look, on the high end you are gonna run those sets anyway. Let's be real here. There's no way you are not gonna run alkosh, in an optimized group, or crusher infused.
You will not. If you have alternate for it. And you had not. Now you have.
And you ask ask to play only 1 style you like and we do not like before.
Now you have alternate for it, you can play not alkosh. And i do not want to play alkosh, it is not designed for tank - why he must be abused to wear it ?
It is not right. We have alternate for it now because of iverpenetration and you ask to remove any alternate of how to play ?
But you do use alkosh. I mean you have the choice, but in an optimized group, you are gonna run alkosh. Unless you wanna be a hinderance to your group.
In optimized group you must not run anything you do not want.
The way only alkosh was the choise is abusing the fact that you only can go penetration before and now there are other options and it is ok.
If you only have 1 support set you only can - chouse it. If it is handred of the same you have a choise of any of them. So it is ok.
That's not what optimised means. In an optimised group, every group member gears to best provide relevant buffs/debuffs to aid the group. If one set does that better than another, or if multiple sets on different members synch up, you go that route. Any stats you can spare on your character sheet that can be backfill from another member will be preferred so that you can optimise (focus on) your primary role.
What you're talking about is viability. Many sets can be viable, and that is fine, but only a handful will be optimal, and that is fine too. It depends on what you're group is hoping to achieve. That's not to say there is only one way to compose your group; there are hundreds of viable group compositions, and individual player skill plays greatly into the scenario too, but the closer to the top you get, the narrower the choices become, and that's just logical--it makes perfect sense for that to be the case. The further from the top you are, the more wiggle room you have, because you have to account for error and spec into what's necessary to complete, but, as I said, the more you and your group climb, the tighter you have to compose and build in order to push forward.
Edited by mairwen85 on November 6, 2020 9:35AM1 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »first make sure Breach properly apply to razor caltrops and allow my DPS to do a proper parse again without spassing the F out.
Also sitting there with a spread sheet trying to figure out penetration is boring.
Allow for more penetration is fine.
PVP'ers hate everything, I suggest expanding battle spirit to get proc sets, penetration spell damage and physical damage to 1. They have done more than enough damage to PVE.
It's not about having more penetration necessarily, it's about making pen not a dead stat after you reach cap.
I really do not get why some people are against it.
Like looking at your group, and adding numbers to see how much pen you have and then adjusting your cp, is NOT FUN, it's just an annoyance, it's hardly a meaningful choice, it's worthless.
Instead if you allow negative resistances, you don't really have to worry about overpen, people will still run alkosh and other penetration stuff because it's just so good, and you can spread out your cps a bit more evenly, and penetration will not be a dead stat if you reach cap, because it still does something.
To me, the argument just seems kinda pedantic, but what about group composition? What about theorycrafting? Who gives a.... You are gonna run alkosh anyway regardless so who cares? You just don;t have to worry about how many points you have into piercing/spell erosion as much anymore, and pen is no longer a dead stat after cap, winner winner chicken dinner, literally.
It is not dead stat.
We just do not want to play -all to penetration + tanks full to penetration support + heals all to penetration sets.
Why it is not a problem that you have 100% crit chanse ?
Why not 1000% when it crits and strikes 10 more times ?
Did you even read what i said? Of course you didn't.
When did i ever suggest that it's a dead stat period?
And look, on the high end you are gonna run those sets anyway. Let's be real here. There's no way you are not gonna run alkosh, in an optimized group, or crusher infused.
You will not. If you have alternate for it. And you had not. Now you have.
And you ask ask to play only 1 style you like and we do not like before.
Now you have alternate for it, you can play not alkosh. And i do not want to play alkosh, it is not designed for tank - why he must be abused to wear it ?
It is not right. We have alternate for it now because of iverpenetration and you ask to remove any alternate of how to play ?
But you do use alkosh. I mean you have the choice, but in an optimized group, you are gonna run alkosh. Unless you wanna be a hinderance to your group.
In optimized group you must not run anything you do not want.
The way only alkosh was the choise is abusing the fact that you only can go penetration before and now there are other options and it is ok.
If you only have 1 support set you only can - chouse it. If it is handred of the same you have a choise of any of them. So it is ok.
That's not what optimised means. In an optimised group, every group member gears to best provide relevant buffs/debuffs to aid the group. If one set does that better than another, or if multiple sets on different members synch up, you go that route. Any stats you can spare on your character sheet that can be backfill from another member will be preferred so that you can optimise (focus on) your primary role.
What you're talking about is viability. Many sets can be viable, and that is fine, but only a handful will be optimal, and that is fine too. It depends on what you're group is hoping to achieve. That's not to say there is only one way to compose your group; there are hundreds of viable group compositions, and individual player skill plays greatly into the scenario too, but the closer to the top you get, the narrower the choices become, and that's just logical--it makes perfect sense for that to be the case. The further from the top you are, the more wiggle room you have, because you have to account for error and spec into what's necessary to complete, but, as I said, the more you and your group climb, the tighter you have to compose and build in order to push forward.
So they just nerf set on top and it is fine.
Why some set is much better than the others ?
Now it is not and it is fine
And what is optimized groups - do all dd wear optimized support sets in it ?
There stats and traits are also optimized or tanks and heals do all work ?
If it is so optimized, how do you take optimized new dd if old go away ?
I am not so optimized so ... just need to win in conditions i have.
But it becomes interesting.
How is more optimized ask people change classes, races, sets and etc by the way
each update ?
Optimized raid kick sound interesting too for me
Not so optimized. Who is more important in choise better player or more optimized ?
God thank you, that i am not as optimized
Never had such problems
When i see some dead player 🤣 i now will say - well he is just more optimized, for this AOE
Player is dead = optimization complite Edited by AyaDark on November 6, 2020 12:59PM0
