Unstable fammiliar

Dark_Lord_Kuro

People of my guild told me that the scamp fammiliar could "steal the agro, from the tank" using their word
But noting is said in the skill description nor can i find anything about that on the internet
Is it true? As far as i know the pets arent suppose to take aggro. Ist something else getting mistaken for it?

Adremal

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

adilazimdegilx wrote: »

It doesnt taunt but like player character, enemy monsters can choose to attack familiar therefore they can stay behind of the group while they fighting each other.
So it can take agro randomly, but it cannot 'steal' it. Tank just needs to taunt the mob.

So it not more dangerous as any other dps

adilazimdegilx explained it well, it works like that but there's no built-in taunt. So if your tank has problems with it, he should get better at taunting. You could swap to the Twilight flying thingy which is ranged I suppose, but other classes have melee pets too, not to mention the omnipresent Daedroth pet from the Maw of the Infernal monster set. It can "taunt" stuff too just by proximity, I find it useful in some instances (e.g. soloing WBs, Arenas and stuff).

Fennwitty

EDIT: It has been pointed out aggro steal is no longer a problem in dungeons and trials. So only the stun part comes into play there. With overland or in delves pets seem perfectly willing to take aggro though.


Scamp doesn't 'steal' but they are ... way too aggressive in my opinion.

If nobody's taunted yet, aggro will go to whoever attacks (hits?) first. As a tank, when possible I'll open fights by running into the group of enemies and 'tagging' them with an AOE ability so they're all looking at me for the first few seconds, even before I taunt.

But if your little buddy runs into a group of mobs and hits them first, now they're on the scamp. If you trigger the scamp's AOE also, then even more of them are glued on the scamp. The tank has to work to take back the aggro vs. if the tank had made the first move.


The Stun ability of the scamp (again, assuming you the player triggered it at a bad time) can interfere with a tank's pulls as well. Targets that get stunned are temporarily immune to further crowd control including pull abilities. That will make it harder for a tank to control the field.

All that being said: This is equivalent to any player with a Damage role who decides to run ahead in dungeons shooting everything with Hail of Arrows or Volcanic Rune while the tank's still 80 yards behind

Try to keep your little monster in the rear between fights and don't trigger the AOE too early.

zvavi

The only thing about it is that it can stun the mobs, preventing tanks from "chaining" them in with a skill (silver leash for example)

adilazimdegilx

It doesnt taunt but like player character, enemy monsters can choose to attack familiar therefore they can stay behind of the group while they fighting each other.
So it can take agro randomly, but it cannot 'steal' it. Tank just needs to taunt the mob.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

adilazimdegilx wrote: »

It doesnt taunt but like player character, enemy monsters can choose to attack familiar therefore they can stay behind of the group while they fighting each other.
So it can take agro randomly, but it cannot 'steal' it. Tank just needs to taunt the mob.

So it not more dangerous as any other dps

Zer0_CooL

I usually spam the S&B taunt on the boss, but sometimes it happens that the boss goes after the soc dd. I assume it has to do with his bat.

Stanx

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

I usually spam the S&B taunt on the boss, but sometimes it happens that the boss goes after the soc dd. I assume it has to do with his bat.

If you spam the taunt too many times too quickly you'll lose taunt and it'll go attack someone else.

Apologies if I'm stating the obvious and mis-understood

Adremal

Fennwitty wrote: »

Scamp doesn't 'steal' but they are ... way too aggressive in my opinion.

If nobody's taunted yet, aggro will go to whoever attacks (hits?) first. As a tank, when possible I'll open fights by running into the group of enemies and 'tagging' them with an AOE ability so they're all looking at me for the first few seconds, even before I taunt.

But if your little buddy runs into a group of mobs and hits them first, now they're on the scamp. If you trigger the scamp's AOE also, then even more of them are glued on the scamp. The tank has to work to take back the aggro vs. if the tank had made the first move.


The Stun ability of the scamp (again, assuming you the player triggered it at a bad time) can interfere with a tank's pulls as well. Targets that get stunned are temporarily immune to further crowd control including pull abilities. That will make it harder for a tank to control the field.

All that being said: This is equivalent to any player with a Damage role who decides to run ahead in dungeons shooting everything with Hail of Arrows or Volcanic Rune while the tank's still 80 yards behind

Try to keep your little monster in the rear between fights and don't trigger the AOE too early.

That applies to any situation and any ability though. I mean, if I'm running a normal I usually dive into trash with my scamp pulsing even if the tank is behind because I can obliterate everything by myself - if I'm running vet I'll stay behind the tank and keep my little monster (seriously @ZOS_GinaBruno , that thing is hideous, I realize this is a tad off-topic and I'm sure someone asked for that already but having alternatives to a hideous Oblivion-monkey would be awesome) on a tight leash.
And avoid shooting Mystic Orb down corridors and the like as well of course.

Fennwitty

Adremal wrote: »

That applies to any situation and any ability though.

Yep, any ability that counts as an attack.

WrathOfInnos

I thought pet aggro in group content was removed like 2 years ago. They cannot take damage, and enemies are supposed to be smart enough to not attack invincible pets. This should not be an issue in dungeons or trials, you just have to watch out for the scamp stunning things before the tank can bring them in. In solo or overland content this is different, since pets can hold some aggro and take damage or die.

Daemons_Bane

Stanx wrote: »

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

I usually spam the S&B taunt on the boss, but sometimes it happens that the boss goes after the soc dd. I assume it has to do with his bat.

If you spam the taunt too many times too quickly you'll lose taunt and it'll go attack someone else.

Apologies if I'm stating the obvious and mis-understood

Having decided to make my first ever tank since the mid 90s, I have had the problem with losing aggro.. is there a golden rule to S&B taunt to avoid this.?

Stinkyremy

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Stanx wrote: »

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

I usually spam the S&B taunt on the boss, but sometimes it happens that the boss goes after the soc dd. I assume it has to do with his bat.

If you spam the taunt too many times too quickly you'll lose taunt and it'll go attack someone else.

Apologies if I'm stating the obvious and mis-understood

Having decided to make my first ever tank since the mid 90s, I have had the problem with losing aggro.. is there a golden rule to S&B taunt to avoid this.?

afaik there are only a few bosses that enrage if over taunted, I can't even think of which ones but I think the dragon in VAS is one of them.
There is a strange taunt mechanic in last boss arx where she shakes taunt. There is a few boss mechs like this but very few and I can't think of which ones. As a tank my rule is taunt every 12 secs.

Razorback174

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Stanx wrote: »

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

I usually spam the S&B taunt on the boss, but sometimes it happens that the boss goes after the soc dd. I assume it has to do with his bat.

If you spam the taunt too many times too quickly you'll lose taunt and it'll go attack someone else.

Apologies if I'm stating the obvious and mis-understood

Having decided to make my first ever tank since the mid 90s, I have had the problem with losing aggro.. is there a golden rule to S&B taunt to avoid this.?

afaik there are only a few bosses that enrage if over taunted, I can't even think of which ones but I think the dragon in VAS is one of them.
There is a strange taunt mechanic in last boss arx where she shakes taunt. There is a few boss mechs like this but very few and I can't think of which ones. As a tank my rule is taunt every 12 secs.

Barring some oddities like the last boss in Arx or Direfrost, you can't over-taunt a boss. Back around release, it used to be if you applied it too often, it would break. Now it will only break if someone else taunts the boss, which in most group scenarios should never ever happen (especially now that frost staves have been properly sorted out).

zaria

Fennwitty wrote: »

Adremal wrote: »

That applies to any situation and any ability though.

Yep, any ability that counts as an attack.

Often in dungeon you see the scamp fighting an single add back at the beginning of the fight.
One HA on boss focuses pet.

This can be used however as if none does damage the one doing damage will hold agro. Tank can use this in BC2 last boss, hold the daedrot on the platform and do AoE to keep soft taunt, as long as none other do damage to them they will stay on you. You can also use this to have pet tank an second boss then soloing.

zaria

Razorback174 wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Stanx wrote: »

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

I usually spam the S&B taunt on the boss, but sometimes it happens that the boss goes after the soc dd. I assume it has to do with his bat.

If you spam the taunt too many times too quickly you'll lose taunt and it'll go attack someone else.

Apologies if I'm stating the obvious and mis-understood

Having decided to make my first ever tank since the mid 90s, I have had the problem with losing aggro.. is there a golden rule to S&B taunt to avoid this.?

afaik there are only a few bosses that enrage if over taunted, I can't even think of which ones but I think the dragon in VAS is one of them.
There is a strange taunt mechanic in last boss arx where she shakes taunt. There is a few boss mechs like this but very few and I can't think of which ones. As a tank my rule is taunt every 12 secs.

Barring some oddities like the last boss in Arx or Direfrost, you can't over-taunt a boss. Back around release, it used to be if you applied it too often, it would break. Now it will only break if someone else taunts the boss, which in most group scenarios should never ever happen (especially now that frost staves have been properly sorted out).

True, now how does tanking work against dragons overland? Can they be taunted? tried to tank them but result was weird.

zvavi

Fennwitty wrote: »

Scamp doesn't 'steal' but they are ... way too aggressive in my opinion.

If nobody's taunted yet, aggro will go to whoever attacks (hits?) first. As a tank, when possible I'll open fights by running into the group of enemies and 'tagging' them with an AOE ability so they're all looking at me for the first few seconds, even before I taunt.

But if your little buddy runs into a group of mobs and hits them first, now they're on the scamp. If you trigger the scamp's AOE also, then even more of them are glued on the scamp. The tank has to work to take back the aggro vs. if the tank had made the first move.

This is a big huge WRONG. Pets do NOT get agro in dungeons and trials. They can't be hit. Solo arenas are the only exception trial.

zvavi

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I thought pet aggro in group content was removed like 2 years ago. They cannot take damage, and enemies are supposed to be smart enough to not attack invincible pets. This should not be an issue in dungeons or trials, you just have to watch out for the scamp stunning things before the tank can bring them in. In solo or overland content this is different, since pets can hold some aggro and take damage or die.

The patch between making pets essential and untargetable was so funny, ressing pugs while scump is tanking zaan was hilarious.

Fennwitty

I was

zvavi wrote: »

Fennwitty wrote: »

Scamp doesn't 'steal' but they are ... way too aggressive in my opinion.

If nobody's taunted yet, aggro will go to whoever attacks (hits?) first. As a tank, when possible I'll open fights by running into the group of enemies and 'tagging' them with an AOE ability so they're all looking at me for the first few seconds, even before I taunt.

But if your little buddy runs into a group of mobs and hits them first, now they're on the scamp. If you trigger the scamp's AOE also, then even more of them are glued on the scamp. The tank has to work to take back the aggro vs. if the tank had made the first move.

This is a big huge WRONG. Pets do NOT get agro in dungeons and trials. They can't be hit. Solo arenas are the only exception trial.

You are correct, thank you. Pets don't take aggro onto themselves in dungeons anymore.

In dungeons I think it can appear that pets are 'starting' the fights when untaunted mobs are close enough to initiate combat before anyone has hit them, as the pets will sometimes look like they're the ones charging into enemy ranks almost immediately to counterattack.

etchedpixels

If you get close enough that you just begin to get noticed (initial red markers) then a pet will charge the mob and that can cause problems in a few cases but they are not taking aggro just starting the fight. It's also very very useful in some solo cases as you can hide, move towards a mob until it just notices you, start a pet or accomplice fight and then hide again.

It's very useful for PvE things like the Sai fight with dragon when you can make him do the entire thing for you 8)