Lack of magicks weapon diversity.

Aertew

Magicka weapons consist of staves. For DPS it's only fire and lightning since ice causes a taunt. And the healing staff is for healers. So essentially if your DPS you can have a fire staff or lightning staff. Meanwhile stamina users can use 1-handed axes, swords, daggers and for 2-hander they have bows, great swords and great axes.

Why doesn't magicka have something where if a weapon is enchanted you can have it give you magicka on heavy attacks rather than stamina? Or mabye just allow magicka users to conjur weapons.

Kurat

You can use ice staffs now, heavy attack doesn't taunt anymore.

LightYagami

I heard a theory that in the old days, morph of class skill were mostly magicka based, so developers added various stamina weapons to compensate the lack of stam morphs.

During further development of the the game, more stamina morphs were added to class skills but they didn't add more magicka weapons.

biminirwb17_ESO

A mag version of a shield would be nice, plus a one handed mag weapon to dual wield.

AcadianPaladin

I'm aware of the Markarth DLC changes to ice staff but I would still like to see:

Healing staff focused on healing/support. We got this of course.

Destruction staves (ice, shock, fire) focused on killing stuff. Dump any/all tanking support.

Tanking staff. Designed from the ground up as a weapon to be used by tanks that provide a serious alternative to S&B. Heavy blocking, taunt, debuffs, even pull and CC abilities.

ealdwin

LightYagami wrote: »

I heard a theory that in the old days, morph of class skill were mostly magicka based, so developers added various stamina weapons to compensate the lack of stam morphs.

During further development of the the game, more stamina morphs were added to class skills but they didn't add more magicka weapons.

It’s true. You can even go back in the page history of different wikis to see what it was like.*

The idea was that the traditional schools of magic (Destruction, Restoration, illusion, Alteration, Conjuration, and Mysticism) hadn’t been developed yet, and the classes formed different schools of thought on magic. Dragonknights were based on old Akaviri martial magic, and had a mix of Destruction, Alteration, and a bit of Restoration. Templars on the other had focused on sun magic which had elements of Destruction and Restoration.

Starting around patch 1.6.5, more class skills were given stamina morphs, and have continued to do so. But despite years of requests from the community, no more magic weapons.

*Edit: For those curious, here is pre 1.6.5 Veiled Strike as an example (From UESP)

Veiled Strike: Veiled Strike: Deals [22 / 23 / 24 / 25] Magic Damage. If stealthed, attack sets enemy off balance and stuns them for 4 seconds. (Cost = 35 Magicka)
Surprise Attack: Reduces enemy Armor by 40% for [12 / 13 / 14 / 15] seconds. (Cost = 35 Magicka)
Concealed Weapon: Passively increases stealthed movement speed by [15 / 16 / 17 / 18]% while slotted. (Cost = 35 Magicka)

Note: 1.6.5 was before standardization of buffs & debuffs, so several skills had unique ones

hexentb16_ESO

I just didn't use that one passive when using an ice staff while dps. I do think more magika based weapon types or styles should be added though.

Like a shadow or oblivion based staff that make your light, heavy, and ability attacks do low oblivion damage and apply debuffs.

Or a Hybrid weapon skill that can be magika or stamina based on what abilities and morphs you choose. Like 1h and spell.

Altyrann

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I'm aware of the Markarth DLC changes to ice staff but I would still like to see:

Healing staff focused on healing/support. We got this of course.

Destruction staves (ice, shock, fire) focused on killing stuff. Dump any/all tanking support.

Tanking staff. Designed from the ground up as a weapon to be used by tanks that provide a serious alternative to S&B. Heavy blocking, taunt, debuffs, even pull and CC abilities.

I like this idea a lot. An earth staff for tanking while leaving the destro tree fully damage focused would make things much simpler.

idk

The game has a really poor design at launch since all class skills were magicka based leaving weapons skills the only worthy skills stam could use. Zos probably figured having multiple stam weapons to choose from covered up that significant oversight.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil

Its time for magicka to get the same level of favoritism/diversity as stamina.

One-hand and rune is probably the most requested skill line. I personally would like to see stand alone spells in a skill line, like soul magic.

Perhaps holding a spell book or scroll could be a different magicka "weapon." It would be in line with the single player titles as well.

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

A mag version of a shield would be nice, plus a one handed mag weapon to dual wield.

Yes! Wards are definitely missing, at least in the form of an active/on demand skill, even though there are sets or staff abilities that offer a shield. I miss the good ol one handed ward skill, like in Skyrim. It should be the magicka version of block. And instead of costing stamina, it should cost magicka.

the1andonlyskwex

idk wrote: »

The game has a really poor design at launch since all class skills were magicka based leaving weapons skills the only worthy skills stam could use. Zos probably figured having multiple stam weapons to choose from covered up that significant oversight.

I'm pretty sure it was by design, not an oversight. Players obviously didn't like it though.

Aertew

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I'm aware of the Markarth DLC changes to ice staff but I would still like to see:

Healing staff focused on healing/support. We got this of course.

Destruction staves (ice, shock, fire) focused on killing stuff. Dump any/all tanking support.

Tanking staff. Designed from the ground up as a weapon to be used by tanks that provide a serious alternative to S&B. Heavy blocking, taunt, debuffs, even pull and CC abilities.

A rough idea but mabye a earth staff or something? I have no idea if the elder scrolls have Earth/stone magic in the lore but if they do they can use that.

ealdwin

Aertew wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I'm aware of the Markarth DLC changes to ice staff but I would still like to see:

Healing staff focused on healing/support. We got this of course.

Destruction staves (ice, shock, fire) focused on killing stuff. Dump any/all tanking support.

Tanking staff. Designed from the ground up as a weapon to be used by tanks that provide a serious alternative to S&B. Heavy blocking, taunt, debuffs, even pull and CC abilities.

A rough idea but mabye a earth staff or something? I have no idea if the elder scrolls have Earth/stone magic in the lore but if they do they can use that.

There's the Alteration school of magic, which is a bit more defensive focused. I know a few ideas for Alteration Staves have been floated around on the forums. The Alteration school of magic traditionally has more support abilities focused around transforming the physical world around the caster. In various games, this focused around spells that increased armor rating and paralyzed or immobilized foes.

Another good support staff option would be an Illusion staff, which would be more altering the perceived reality of the target, either through inducing fear, rage, peace, or courage, or through silencing footsteps and invisibility.

Syrpynt

I go back to Skyrim once and a while to play exactly what you're talking about. The class system is just MMO copy paste stuff. The basis of Elder Scrolls games was to build everything into combinations, to make a unique player. But the fear of having to balance all of that with some many combinations was the hardest part.

I would love a hybrid build with magicka and 1h weapons. Spears too like in TES III Morrowind. Spears could be the tanking "staff" that focus primarily on buffs and debuffs, not healing like restoration staffs do.

Yamenstein

No more staffs! Sick of them.

washbern

maybe we can have fist weapons or something. then again... what are the chances of them creating a new weapon type and having to style that weapon 100+ times for all the motifs out there? I would say if there is one reason they would never ever release a new weapon is that in their minds the effort does not justify what they will earn back from it.

Vevvev

washbern wrote: »

maybe we can have fist weapons or something. then again... what are the chances of them creating a new weapon type and having to style that weapon 100+ times for all the motifs out there? I would say if there is one reason they would never ever release a new weapon is that in their minds the effort does not justify what they will earn back from it.

Which is why the Alteration Staff and Rune skill lines people have been wanting are the best ways to go. Alteration staff doesn't require new staff skins and Runes are mostly just graphics as its essentially like Skyrim's magic system where you make a spell in your hand and use it.

Syrpynt

washbern wrote: »

maybe we can have fist weapons or something. then again... what are the chances of them creating a new weapon type and having to style that weapon 100+ times for all the motifs out there? I would say if there is one reason they would never ever release a new weapon is that in their minds the effort does not justify what they will earn back from it.

I would agree with the last part but if it was part of a new chapter release, then it could pay off. Especially if they make it meta for 6-8 months before nerfing. Like what they did with Warden and Necromancer.

Vevvev wrote: »

Which is why the Alteration Staff and Rune skill lines people have been wanting are the best ways to go. Alteration staff doesn't require new staff skins and Runes are mostly just graphics as its essentially like Skyrim's magic system where you make a spell in your hand and use it.

Yeah, I'm totally down for the rune idea. The alteration staves could actually be spears also. This would tie in a Crowd-Control tanking weapon also. With both stamina and magicka abilities. Hmm...

El_Borracho

In terms of group content PVE DPS, the lack of weapon diversity is more than made up for with the wealth of sets you can run as a mag player. For stam, its Relequen + a handful of other sets. For mag, its nearly endless by comparison.

Besides, for weapons, stam has DW or 2H. Not exactly a massive departure from inferno or lightning.

TheImperfect

I do feel like it would be more fun if there was more choice of Magicka weapon skill lines. It feels limiting right now, there are plenty of class skills but it seems boring to limit the weapon so much.

MashmalloMan

I feel it this year.. New melee magicka weapon and/or spell crafting for the new Chapter incoming.

This year should be a new class (every 2 years based on previous chapters) however, both Ice Magic, Nature magic and Necromancy were missing from the base game and they're now available within Warden/Necromancer.

It only made sense that those classes would eventually be created given the very obvious gap in the 4 original classes (fire/shock/dark/light). Not to mention Warden was actually being worked on during Beta. Every magicka element is now covered and every distinct NPC has been created as a class(Druid/Ice Mage/Necromancer).

Had they made Wardens strictly nature magic, without the ice element, I'd actually expect this year to release an ice class.. but they didn't so I can't imagine what they think is necessary to make for a 7th class. While previous years had people usually agree upon 1 theme (Nature vs Ice vs Necromancy), this year, ideas like Bard and Monk have been tossed around which arguably don't need entire classes for and people aren't rallying behind. Bard could be a skill line and Monk just sounds like it could be a magicka melee weapon + templar.

Hedging my bets now

ealdwin

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I feel it this year.. New melee magicka weapon and/or spell crafting for the new Chapter incoming.

This year should be a new class (every 2 years based on previous chapters) however, both Ice Magic, Nature magic and Necromancy were missing from the base game and they're now available within Warden/Necromancer.

It only made sense that those classes would eventually be created given the very obvious gap in the 4 original classes (fire/shock/dark/light). Not to mention Warden was actually being worked on during Beta. Every magicka element is now covered and every distinct NPC has been created as a class(Druid/Ice Mage/Necromancer).

Had they made Wardens strictly nature magic, without the ice element, I'd actually expect this year to release an ice class.. but they didn't so I can't imagine what they think is necessary to make for a 7th class. While previous years had people usually agree upon 1 theme (Nature vs Ice vs Necromancy), this year, ideas like Bard and Monk have been tossed around which arguably don't need entire classes for and people aren't rallying behind. Bard could be a skill line and Monk just sounds like it could be a magicka melee weapon + templar.

Hedging my bets now

Monk could even just be completed with unhanded weapon skill line that had benefits for mag & stam. Throw in a "Combat Focus" skill tree that grants Major Sorc/Brut. for X seconds, and you've got yourself a decent setup for monk on any class. Heck, make it so you can put runes in your hand instead in order to give your hands effects, like surrounding them in fire or lightning.

The most likely candidate for a new class (if we get one next year, which is doubtful) would be Battlemage, considering the extreme likelihood of going to Cyrodiil, but even that could simply be a new skill line similar to the Psijic, that focused more around hybridization and mixing the might of the sword and the spell. I had a thought recently that there's a chance of potentially seeing the Battlespire, which would certainly open up the possibility of different Oblivion realms, and would be a good introduction to Battlemages.

MashmalloMan

ealdwin wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I feel it this year.. New melee magicka weapon and/or spell crafting for the new Chapter incoming.

This year should be a new class (every 2 years based on previous chapters) however, both Ice Magic, Nature magic and Necromancy were missing from the base game and they're now available within Warden/Necromancer.

It only made sense that those classes would eventually be created given the very obvious gap in the 4 original classes (fire/shock/dark/light). Not to mention Warden was actually being worked on during Beta. Every magicka element is now covered and every distinct NPC has been created as a class(Druid/Ice Mage/Necromancer).

Had they made Wardens strictly nature magic, without the ice element, I'd actually expect this year to release an ice class.. but they didn't so I can't imagine what they think is necessary to make for a 7th class. While previous years had people usually agree upon 1 theme (Nature vs Ice vs Necromancy), this year, ideas like Bard and Monk have been tossed around which arguably don't need entire classes for and people aren't rallying behind. Bard could be a skill line and Monk just sounds like it could be a magicka melee weapon + templar.

Hedging my bets now

Monk could even just be completed with unhanded weapon skill line that had benefits for mag & stam. Throw in a "Combat Focus" skill tree that grants Major Sorc/Brut. for X seconds, and you've got yourself a decent setup for monk on any class. Heck, make it so you can put runes in your hand instead in order to give your hands effects, like surrounding them in fire or lightning.

The most likely candidate for a new class (if we get one next year, which is doubtful) would be Battlemage, considering the extreme likelihood of going to Cyrodiil, but even that could simply be a new skill line similar to the Psijic, that focused more around hybridization and mixing the might of the sword and the spell. I had a thought recently that there's a chance of potentially seeing the Battlespire, which would certainly open up the possibility of different Oblivion realms, and would be a good introduction to Battlemages.

My thoughts exactly.

Bards don't really do DPS in Elder Scrolls like Final Fantasy and even if they took creative liberities here, I don't think an entire musical class really fits this game. It would be better as a guild.

Monks could just be a weapon skill line like you mentioned so anyone could be a "monk", but templars with holy magic would fit the theme as well to highten them further, especially since Templars are already very melee magicka based (along with DKs). Those 2 classes need melee magicka weapons, it's long overdue.

While I like the idea of a Battlemage, I've always seen Sorcerers as the closest semblence of that idea with the ability to be quick and cast spells in melee or ranged combat. I'm pretty sure even one of the combat helpers for Sorc in the game are called something along the lines of Battlemage or at least close to that idea for the stamina route.

Imo, Monks (unarmed or your idea, 2 runes) and Battlemage (Melee + Rune) could be applicable to any class in the game right now, if only we had weapons to actually highten those themes. It would be much more interesting for everyone to be able to play their existing characters in new ways.. rather than 1 specific class hold the title as "Monk" or "Battlemage" especially since both of those classes would require new weapons anyway or else they'd look extremely out of place. Is a Monk going to use a staff? It just seems weird to me.

The current classes serve as a combination of broad schools of magic for the most part. What exactly does Battlemage signify that you couldn't find by just holding melee weapons with magicka skills slotted. Thats more of a stance change you'd find in other games and would work well as an entire hybrid focussed skill line in this game.

So yeah I hope they make new weapons to promote those playstyles. I like your idea for double runes for unarmed because it kills 2 birds with 1 stone. 1 of the hurtles for creating a new weapon skill line is the fact that there is over 50+ motifs they would need to create to catch it up with the previous drops, this is 100% why I see Spears, Halberds, etc as never coming to this game.

1H + Rune would just mean they can use the existing models for 1H like they do for 1H + Shield. If you Dual Wield runes, you'd get the unarmned skill line bonuses, if you Wielded a 1H + Rune, you could get that skill line. Runes could just be shiny effects. So for both idea, no new motifs need to be created and it becomes an actual possibility they may invest into making this for Chapter content.

SOLDIER_1stClass

Its an easy fix, they are just to lazy to implement it.

Have conjured weapon line with bow, daggers, two hand incorporated into it for medium dps/ heals based of kills/ procs

Have a 1h and spell line based on support and medium damage. Or high damage with no heals or support.