PvP: Stam > Mag?

Ryuvain

It feels like no matter what build I try, I can't have good damage without becoming so squishy that any melee will kill me. Is magicka just meant to be glass cannon pvp? I'm trying to find a way to improve but it often feels like I can't compete with bow snipe or two handed.

Tried out magsorc and magcro. But they feel pretty even. Healing feels ultimately useless too.

Firstmep

Ryuvain wrote: »

It feels like no matter what build I try, I can't have good damage without becoming so squishy that any melee will kill me. Is magicka just meant to be glass cannon pvp? I'm trying to find a way to improve but it often feels like I can't compete with bow snipe or two handed.

What class, what type of pvp etc?

Ryuvain

Firstmep wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

It feels like no matter what build I try, I can't have good damage without becoming so squishy that any melee will kill me. Is magicka just meant to be glass cannon pvp? I'm trying to find a way to improve but it often feels like I can't compete with bow snipe or two handed.

What class, what type of pvp etc?

Sorry, just edited. Battlegrounds is the only pvp I've played.

Firstmep

Ryuvain wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

It feels like no matter what build I try, I can't have good damage without becoming so squishy that any melee will kill me. Is magicka just meant to be glass cannon pvp? I'm trying to find a way to improve but it often feels like I can't compete with bow snipe or two handed.

What class, what type of pvp etc?

Sorry, just edited. Battlegrounds is the only pvp I've played.

Magsorc healing is pretty good with twilight matriarch, without it you will have to rely on either resto staff or a lot of dark conversion spam.
Not sure what build you are using but between ball of lightning, matriarch heal and ward, magsorc is one of the safest classes to play in bgs.
Some bg maps don't favor ranged as much as others tho.
Try to always position yourself behind your team, and dont commit to fights too much.
For mag necro, you are 100% relying on your team to play together, trying to survive can be rough on magcro if alone.
I know a pretty successful magcro player that basically just sits inside the fear totem and keeps a high uptime on deaden pain, as well as keeps his Goliath ult in order to survive.
But again very team dependent.
With solo only queues, and the way the meta has shifted stamina is slightly favored in most bgs.
A full Magicka comp with strong cross healing though, can be really tough to deal with.
A lot of mag players also run heavy armor and malacath with procsets, as light armor survivabilty is pretty bad in no cp, although it varies from class to class.
I run heavy on magplar and magDK and light on magden, magblade and sorc.
Sorc has the healing and mobility going for it, warden is inherently tanky class, and magblade you can go either way I just prefer doing high dmg on it, but seen heavy armor dark cloak blades do really well too.

Ryuvain

So I should try using streak a lot more then? Matriarch healing is alright but only when spammed with ward imo. Also my shields and healing drop hard for each piece of heavy armor I equip.

Magcro was nearly the same but dies quicker. Might just be me? Just feels like if they jump me and start spamming me, I'm going to die. Can't kill the guy on me with 35k health who somehow still does huge damage. Again, my healing gets gutted with heavy armor?

Stuns and immobilizing feels useless since they have the stam to break out. For sets i tried combinations of mad tinkerer, mothers sorrow, crafty alfiq, spinners, and eternal vigor mostly on jewelry.

ImSoPro

Magsorc and magcro play nothing alike in PVP bro. Magcro is slow magsorc is fast. Magcro is tanky and magsorc is not. Magsorc overall is a quick strike class. Magcro is a a wear you down class except the burst isn’t reliable. You have to wear a defensive set ion magcro imo. Magsorc has hardened ward and you can stack harness magicka with it so you don’t have to. I also play mainly BGs with a some Cyro and IC sprinkled in.

How I survive in BGs on my magcro is a combination of pariah, undeath, mist form, deaden pain. A lot of people use spirit guardian too for the 10% dmg mitigation but I like intensive mender. I think that’s the strongest HOT in the game or close to it. Survivability is where magcro really shines amongst mag classes if you ask me. Needs some work on the offensive toolkit though, so as far as killing people you are going to have a hard time on that class. I’ve spent a year trying to work out good non harmony PvP builds and the closest I’ve gotten is the build I’m running rn but the offensive toolkit is just too incomplete PvP wise.

As far as magsorc you should not need to wear heavy because magsorc gets its survivability from shields, so I use two offensive sets with hardened ward and I have streak with lightning form for a lot of mobility/kiting. Surviving on magsorc is a lot more active motion but you don’t want to over use streak. When you get in trouble in magsorc you just shield up, streak out and reset. To me the resto staff healing is also more effective than matriarch cause then you don’t need two slots used for one skill. That’s wasteful to me. Rapid regeneration and dark conversion will have you good to go. I run those two heals with one shield and do great.

Ryuvain

ImSoPro wrote: »

Magsorc and magcro play nothing alike in PVP bro. Magcro is slow magsorc is fast. Magcro is tanky and magsorc is not. Magsorc overall is a quick strike class. Magcro is a a wear you down class except the burst isn’t reliable. You have to wear a defensive set ion magcro imo. Magsorc has hardened ward and you can stack harness magicka with it so you don’t have to. I also play mainly BGs with a some Cyro and IC sprinkled in.

How I survive in BGs on my magcro is a combination of pariah, undeath, mist form, deaden pain. A lot of people use spirit guardian too for the 10% dmg mitigation but I like intensive mender. I think that’s the strongest HOT in the game or close to it. Survivability is where magcro really shines amongst mag classes if you ask me. Needs some work on the offensive toolkit though, so as far as killing people you are going to have a hard time on that class. I’ve spent a year trying to work out good non harmony PvP builds and the closest I’ve gotten is the build I’m running rn but the offensive toolkit is just too incomplete PvP wise.

As far as magsorc you should not need to wear heavy because magsorc gets its survivability from shields, so I use two offensive sets with hardened ward and I have streak with lightning form for a lot of mobility/kiting. Surviving on magsorc is a lot more active motion but you don’t want to over use streak. When you get in trouble in magsorc you just shield up, streak out and reset. To me the resto staff healing is also more effective than matriarch cause then you don’t need two slots used for one skill. That’s wasteful to me. Rapid regeneration and dark conversion will have you good to go. I run those two heals with one shield and do great.

Never thought of them playing that way. Also wasn't aware of shield stacking. I'll definitely have to change how I've been playing.

Feizao

These builds haven't been updated for current patch, but whats bolded are tips you could use with any class (may work best on other classes). Nothing special about my sets either. Hopefully you find something helpful. If you cant build a good defense, build for a stronger offense. Sometimes pressure keeps ppl from attacking you (i.e you've reduced your damage taken)

MagBlade: Feels risky if not spec'd for cloak/gank imo. Try to kite more. Im still finding what works best (even though i had something before). Healing ward use to increase shield strength by 300%. This was amazing at low HP + mist form was all the defense i needed
-- Bright-Throat and War Maiden --
MagDK: He does alright if i can manage resources. It helps to hold block when healing. casting fragmented shield returns some stamina to help with blocking and increase healing.
-- Bright-Throats and BSW -- DW/Resto-- DW heavy attacks restore stamina (or use SnB)
MagDen: shimmering shield for projectiles. harness/dampen magicka as primary defense. Vines for healing. Stacking max magicka increases shield strength + wardens have healthy passive to increase shield cap
-- Overwhelming Surge and Necropotence --

I never played magsorc or got into magcro to offer any advice there. My stamcro uses spirit guardian and deaden pain, but i find necro to be more of a supportive role. Its difficult to secure a kill on my own. Being Argonian feels good too

Thoragaal

Ryuvain wrote: »

Magcro was nearly the same but dies quicker. Might just be me? Just feels like if they jump me and start spamming me, I'm going to die. Can't kill the guy on me with 35k health who somehow still does huge damage. Again, my healing gets gutted with heavy armor?

I'm also looking for a MagCro build, but I've given up hope.
I still haven't managed, or seen anyone, who figured out a good build for MagCros in BGs. People, including myself, either end up having a build that would do far better on another class (ie you're making it more difficult than it has to be) or they end up getting a tanky support build, but with that build you end up being too stationary and just don't get anything done.
While MagCro can be extremely good for large scale combat, I would 100% suggest you don't even bother with it for BGs.

Edit: Your healing shouldn't suffer too much because you're in heavy armor, although you lose some magicka sustain and crit chance.

Unified_Gaming

Thoragaal wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Magcro was nearly the same but dies quicker. Might just be me? Just feels like if they jump me and start spamming me, I'm going to die. Can't kill the guy on me with 35k health who somehow still does huge damage. Again, my healing gets gutted with heavy armor?

I'm also looking for a MagCro build, but I've given up hope.
I still haven't managed, or seen anyone, who figured out a good build for MagCros in BGs. People, including myself, either end up having a build that would do far better on another class (ie you're making it more difficult than it has to be) or they end up getting a tanky support build, but with that build you end up being too stationary and just don't get anything done.
While MagCro can be extremely good for large scale combat, I would 100% suggest you don't even bother with it for BGs.

Edit: Your healing shouldn't suffer too much because you're in heavy armor, although you lose some magicka sustain and crit chance.

I found magcro works well if you adjust it to use a proc. It has good bulk - I will post a video on YT soon.

oscarovegren

Feizao wrote: »

These builds haven't been updated for current patch, but whats bolded are tips you could use with any class (may work best on other classes). Nothing special about my sets either. Hopefully you find something helpful. If you cant build a good defense, build for a stronger offense. Sometimes pressure keeps ppl from attacking you (i.e you've reduced your damage taken)

MagBlade: Feels risky if not spec'd for cloak/gank imo. Try to kite more. Im still finding what works best (even though i had something before). Healing ward use to increase shield strength by 300%. This was amazing at low HP + mist form was all the defense i needed
-- Bright-Throat and War Maiden --
MagDK: He does alright if i can manage resources. It helps to hold block when healing. casting fragmented shield returns some stamina to help with blocking and increase healing.
-- Bright-Throats and BSW -- DW/Resto-- DW heavy attacks restore stamina (or use SnB)
MagDen: shimmering shield for projectiles. harness/dampen magicka as primary defense. Vines for healing. Stacking max magicka increases shield strength + wardens have healthy passive to increase shield cap
-- Overwhelming Surge and Necropotence --

I never played magsorc or got into magcro to offer any advice there. My stamcro uses spirit guardian and deaden pain, but i find necro to be more of a supportive role. Its difficult to secure a kill on my own. Being Argonian feels good too

BtB isnt even close meta on MagDK. Go into PvP and you see every magDk either using 1: overwhelming surge, malacath, grothdarr, trainee and a survivalbackbarset or 2: elf bane, grothdarr, malacath, endurance and trainee. That BSW/BtB would be smoked early by a proc magDK with mala

Wardens either go proc with icy conjuror/winterborn front, overwhelming surge back, grothdarr, trainee and malacath or necropotence with armor master back, master destro front with balorgh (or 1pc monsterset + malacath)

oscarovegren

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Magcro was nearly the same but dies quicker. Might just be me? Just feels like if they jump me and start spamming me, I'm going to die. Can't kill the guy on me with 35k health who somehow still does huge damage. Again, my healing gets gutted with heavy armor?

I'm also looking for a MagCro build, but I've given up hope.
I still haven't managed, or seen anyone, who figured out a good build for MagCros in BGs. People, including myself, either end up having a build that would do far better on another class (ie you're making it more difficult than it has to be) or they end up getting a tanky support build, but with that build you end up being too stationary and just don't get anything done.
While MagCro can be extremely good for large scale combat, I would 100% suggest you don't even bother with it for BGs.

Edit: Your healing shouldn't suffer too much because you're in heavy armor, although you lose some magicka sustain and crit chance.

I found magcro works well if you adjust it to use a proc. It has good bulk - I will post a video on YT soon.

Magcro is only good offensively with procs. The class is a very bad spot if you try to use the class without procs. As bad as MagNB and MagDK without procs probably. Those 3 classes are so weak without procs for the moment

GrimTheReaper45

I dont think stam necessarily is better than mag in pvp. However its the support for them that is the problem.

(Disclaimer, there are a lot of classes and a lot of builds. Speaking in generals here)

Stam has a lot of good heavy sets that give damage and can make use of them much better than mag. Some mag classes can use heavy but a lot cant and the selection of Heavy mag sets that buff damage is pretty bad

Regardless of how you feel about proc sets, there a thing. Stam again has a pretty good selection to choose from between medium sets on jewelry and weapons and heavy proc sets. There are good proc sets on mags side ( vicious death, zaan, the deadroth one). A lot of them are build specific and almost none are heavy.

Varying by class mag also has to build a lot different than stam and in not always beneficial ways. Outside of buffs and maybe stuns stam really doesnt have to build into there mag pool in most cases. Stam pool on mag is pretty important. Heavy attacks on staff are not very pvp friendly, so regen is a little more important. A couple mag classes and builds have to waste there back bar with a resto staff. Stam has a selection of weapon skills that heal and vigor which gives them some more options to build with. Non petsorc and mag blade dont really have any pressure skills so they cant really get away with low burst. If your a burst build on stams side your either in heavy with 2h, sniping or ganking which really isnt prolonged combat so you can focus easier into damage or using proc sets.

ImSoPro

Ryuvain wrote: »

ImSoPro wrote: »

Magsorc and magcro play nothing alike in PVP bro. Magcro is slow magsorc is fast. Magcro is tanky and magsorc is not. Magsorc overall is a quick strike class. Magcro is a a wear you down class except the burst isn’t reliable. You have to wear a defensive set ion magcro imo. Magsorc has hardened ward and you can stack harness magicka with it so you don’t have to. I also play mainly BGs with a some Cyro and IC sprinkled in.

How I survive in BGs on my magcro is a combination of pariah, undeath, mist form, deaden pain. A lot of people use spirit guardian too for the 10% dmg mitigation but I like intensive mender. I think that’s the strongest HOT in the game or close to it. Survivability is where magcro really shines amongst mag classes if you ask me. Needs some work on the offensive toolkit though, so as far as killing people you are going to have a hard time on that class. I’ve spent a year trying to work out good non harmony PvP builds and the closest I’ve gotten is the build I’m running rn but the offensive toolkit is just too incomplete PvP wise.

As far as magsorc you should not need to wear heavy because magsorc gets its survivability from shields, so I use two offensive sets with hardened ward and I have streak with lightning form for a lot of mobility/kiting. Surviving on magsorc is a lot more active motion but you don’t want to over use streak. When you get in trouble in magsorc you just shield up, streak out and reset. To me the resto staff healing is also more effective than matriarch cause then you don’t need two slots used for one skill. That’s wasteful to me. Rapid regeneration and dark conversion will have you good to go. I run those two heals with one shield and do great.

Never thought of them playing that way. Also wasn't aware of shield stacking. I'll definitely have to change how I've been playing.

Yes shield stacking is very effective but I don’t because I’m not comfortable without a purge with all the sheer venom and venomous smite sets. And if you ask me the best defense for magsorc is a good offense which is why although it’s better to build for max mag as a magsorc for more effective shields I use all damage sets. Enemies can’t kill you if they’re busy trying to stay alive

Shields are expensive to re apply a lot and once they’re down magsorc is squishy and you need to be dodge rolling. My goal is to do so much damage the opponent doesn’t have a chance to pressure me. That’s why I use streak for the stun to make sure my haunting curse at least gets one blast off.

So I engage fights like - Shield up, burst combo, shield down, dodge roll out and re apply shields and heals, another burst combo. Everytime they get out of the stun if they’re not a tank they’re in execute range. I don’t use endless fury cause I just don’t have space for it, sometimes I wish I had it for certain enemies who end up healing back more than expected but oftentimes my magsorc doesn’t need it.

I use NMA and overwhelming surge with balorghs and it melts people in a hurry. OS might look weird on a supposed ranged class like magsorc but it helps a lot in close quarters BGs when stam players are tryna pile on you. I also use streak a lot for the stun as mentioned above so I’m not that ranged. It keeps pressure on them with lightning form and doubles as a sustain set restoring magicka since I only have 30k(27k in BGs) mag on my magsorc. 3.9k SD fully buffed though. I love my magsorc I have a lot of fun on it in BGs. I use crafty alfiq instead of OS in open world PVP.

So I said all that to say that building into offense whether you stack max mag or SD will give you better defense(while simultaneously making killing people not a problem)on a magsorc because at the end of the day once the shields are popped on magsorc it doesn’t have long. End the fight as quick as possible.

Ryuvain

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

I dont think stam necessarily is better than mag in pvp. However its the support for them that is the problem.

(Disclaimer, there are a lot of classes and a lot of builds. Speaking in generals here)

Stam has a lot of good heavy sets that give damage and can make use of them much better than mag. Some mag classes can use heavy but a lot cant and the selection of Heavy mag sets that buff damage is pretty bad

Regardless of how you feel about proc sets, there a thing. Stam again has a pretty good selection to choose from between medium sets on jewelry and weapons and heavy proc sets. There are good proc sets on mags side ( vicious death, zaan, the deadroth one). A lot of them are build specific and almost none are heavy.

Varying by class mag also has to build a lot different than stam and in not always beneficial ways. Outside of buffs and maybe stuns stam really doesnt have to build into there mag pool in most cases. Stam pool on mag is pretty important. Heavy attacks on staff are not very pvp friendly, so regen is a little more important. A couple mag classes and builds have to waste there back bar with a resto staff. Stam has a selection of weapon skills that heal and vigor which gives them some more options to build with. Non petsorc and mag blade dont really have any pressure skills so they cant really get away with low burst. If your a burst build on stams side your either in heavy with 2h, sniping or ganking which really isnt prolonged combat so you can focus easier into damage or using proc sets.

That's how I felt. Mag feels very limited in comparison.

ImSoPro wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

ImSoPro wrote: »

Magsorc and magcro play nothing alike in PVP bro. Magcro is slow magsorc is fast. Magcro is tanky and magsorc is not. Magsorc overall is a quick strike class. Magcro is a a wear you down class except the burst isn’t reliable. You have to wear a defensive set ion magcro imo. Magsorc has hardened ward and you can stack harness magicka with it so you don’t have to. I also play mainly BGs with a some Cyro and IC sprinkled in.

How I survive in BGs on my magcro is a combination of pariah, undeath, mist form, deaden pain. A lot of people use spirit guardian too for the 10% dmg mitigation but I like intensive mender. I think that’s the strongest HOT in the game or close to it. Survivability is where magcro really shines amongst mag classes if you ask me. Needs some work on the offensive toolkit though, so as far as killing people you are going to have a hard time on that class. I’ve spent a year trying to work out good non harmony PvP builds and the closest I’ve gotten is the build I’m running rn but the offensive toolkit is just too incomplete PvP wise.

As far as magsorc you should not need to wear heavy because magsorc gets its survivability from shields, so I use two offensive sets with hardened ward and I have streak with lightning form for a lot of mobility/kiting. Surviving on magsorc is a lot more active motion but you don’t want to over use streak. When you get in trouble in magsorc you just shield up, streak out and reset. To me the resto staff healing is also more effective than matriarch cause then you don’t need two slots used for one skill. That’s wasteful to me. Rapid regeneration and dark conversion will have you good to go. I run those two heals with one shield and do great.

Never thought of them playing that way. Also wasn't aware of shield stacking. I'll definitely have to change how I've been playing.

Yes shield stacking is very effective but I don’t because I’m not comfortable without a purge with all the sheer venom and venomous smite sets. And if you ask me the best defense for magsorc is a good offense which is why although it’s better to build for max mag as a magsorc for more effective shields I use all damage sets. Enemies can’t kill you if they’re busy trying to stay alive

Shields are expensive to re apply a lot and once they’re down magsorc is squishy and you need to be dodge rolling. My goal is to do so much damage the opponent doesn’t have a chance to pressure me. That’s why I use streak for the stun to make sure my haunting curse at least gets one blast off.

So I engage fights like - Shield up, burst combo, shield down, dodge roll out and re apply shields and heals, another burst combo. Everytime they get out of the stun if they’re not a tank they’re in execute range. I don’t use endless fury cause I just don’t have space for it, sometimes I wish I had it for certain enemies who end up healing back more than expected but oftentimes my magsorc doesn’t need it.

I use NMA and overwhelming surge with balorghs and it melts people in a hurry. OS might look weird on a supposed ranged class like magsorc but it helps a lot in close quarters BGs when stam players are tryna pile on you. I also use streak a lot for the stun as mentioned above so I’m not that ranged. It keeps pressure on them with lightning form and doubles as a sustain set restoring magicka since I only have 30k(27k in BGs) mag on my magsorc. 3.9k SD fully buffed though. I love my magsorc I have a lot of fun on it in BGs. I use crafty alfiq instead of OS in open world PVP.

So I said all that to say that building into offense whether you stack max mag or SD will give you better defense(while simultaneously making killing people not a problem)on a magsorc because at the end of the day once the shields are popped on magsorc it doesn’t have long. End the fight as quick as possible.

That's good advice again. I did feel like magsorc can't do much defensively.

Joinovikova

Ryuvain wrote: »

It feels like no matter what build I try, I can't have good damage without becoming so squishy that any melee will kill me. Is magicka just meant to be glass cannon pvp? I'm trying to find a way to improve but it often feels like I can't compete with bow snipe or two handed.

Tried out magsorc and magcro. But they feel pretty even. Healing feels ultimately useless too.

magica class is not availbe now in pvp (if u want to be competitive ) it not matter what class. u play stamina is much stronger BY FAR MUCH stronger.. closes gap is on stamdam vs mag den. then stamdk mag dk, but in case of nb or sorc. u just like not even to be competitive... The imbalance in favor of stam builds is in the game for years.. but now with OP stam dot sets and its not case if u use venomos + something else or unleashed terror with sheer + malacatch.. playing mag builds on this patch on high mmr is just frustration nothing else...

Joinovikova

ImSoPro wrote: »

Magsorc and magcro play nothing alike in PVP bro. Magcro is slow magsorc is fast. Magcro is tanky and magsorc is not. Magsorc overall is a quick strike class. Magcro is a a wear you down class except the burst isn’t reliable. You have to wear a defensive set ion magcro imo. Magsorc has hardened ward and you can stack harness magicka with it so you don’t have to. I also play mainly BGs with a some Cyro and IC sprinkled in.

How I survive in BGs on my magcro is a combination of pariah, undeath, mist form, deaden pain. A lot of people use spirit guardian too for the 10% dmg mitigation but I like intensive mender. I think that’s the strongest HOT in the game or close to it. Survivability is where magcro really shines amongst mag classes if you ask me. Needs some work on the offensive toolkit though, so as far as killing people you are going to have a hard time on that class. I’ve spent a year trying to work out good non harmony PvP builds and the closest I’ve gotten is the build I’m running rn but the offensive toolkit is just too incomplete PvP wise.

As far as magsorc you should not need to wear heavy because magsorc gets its survivability from shields, so I use two offensive sets with hardened ward and I have streak with lightning form for a lot of mobility/kiting. Surviving on magsorc is a lot more active motion but you don’t want to over use streak. When you get in trouble in magsorc you just shield up, streak out and reset. To me the resto staff healing is also more effective than matriarch cause then you don’t need two slots used for one skill. That’s wasteful to me. Rapid regeneration and dark conversion will have you good to go. I run those two heals with one shield and do great.

stamina sorc is safets class to play ( or stam NB). and it outperform mag sorc in any duel aspect except of group healing but why u need group healing if u are able to have 53% more dmg (this is my resutls on testing stam vs mag sorc). just try it and u will see how big gap is... magica wards are total useeless they are to weak in comparsion of damage of stamina proc sets ( mainly of dots preasure)


matriarch is much better healing litteraly its only way how to sometimes survive.

Noctus

magicka warden is the best choice if u want to be a tanky magicka user who can still burst ppl down.

ImSoPro

Joinovikova wrote: »

ImSoPro wrote: »

Magsorc and magcro play nothing alike in PVP bro. Magcro is slow magsorc is fast. Magcro is tanky and magsorc is not. Magsorc overall is a quick strike class. Magcro is a a wear you down class except the burst isn’t reliable. You have to wear a defensive set ion magcro imo. Magsorc has hardened ward and you can stack harness magicka with it so you don’t have to. I also play mainly BGs with a some Cyro and IC sprinkled in.

How I survive in BGs on my magcro is a combination of pariah, undeath, mist form, deaden pain. A lot of people use spirit guardian too for the 10% dmg mitigation but I like intensive mender. I think that’s the strongest HOT in the game or close to it. Survivability is where magcro really shines amongst mag classes if you ask me. Needs some work on the offensive toolkit though, so as far as killing people you are going to have a hard time on that class. I’ve spent a year trying to work out good non harmony PvP builds and the closest I’ve gotten is the build I’m running rn but the offensive toolkit is just too incomplete PvP wise.

As far as magsorc you should not need to wear heavy because magsorc gets its survivability from shields, so I use two offensive sets with hardened ward and I have streak with lightning form for a lot of mobility/kiting. Surviving on magsorc is a lot more active motion but you don’t want to over use streak. When you get in trouble in magsorc you just shield up, streak out and reset. To me the resto staff healing is also more effective than matriarch cause then you don’t need two slots used for one skill. That’s wasteful to me. Rapid regeneration and dark conversion will have you good to go. I run those two heals with one shield and do great.

stamina sorc is safets class to play ( or stam NB). and it outperform mag sorc in any duel aspect except of group healing but why u need group healing if u are able to have 53% more dmg (this is my resutls on testing stam vs mag sorc). just try it and u will see how big gap is... magica wards are total useeless they are to weak in comparsion of damage of stamina proc sets ( mainly of dots preasure)


matriarch is much better healing litteraly its only way how to sometimes survive.

Only stam classes I have trouble with are DKs and wardens mainly. I feel like I never see stamsorcs but I know 1v1 my magsorc has no problems usually unless the fight lasts too long since I don’t have high mag. And matriarch Imo is a waste. Resto staff heals give you more versatility. 2 skills > 1.

Feizao

oscarovegren wrote: »

Feizao wrote: »

These builds haven't been updated for current patch, but whats bolded are tips you could use with any class (may work best on other classes). Nothing special about my sets either. Hopefully you find something helpful. If you cant build a good defense, build for a stronger offense. Sometimes pressure keeps ppl from attacking you (i.e you've reduced your damage taken)

MagBlade: Feels risky if not spec'd for cloak/gank imo. Try to kite more. Im still finding what works best (even though i had something before). Healing ward use to increase shield strength by 300%. This was amazing at low HP + mist form was all the defense i needed
-- Bright-Throat and War Maiden --
MagDK: He does alright if i can manage resources. It helps to hold block when healing. casting fragmented shield returns some stamina to help with blocking and increase healing.
-- Bright-Throats and BSW -- DW/Resto-- DW heavy attacks restore stamina (or use SnB)
MagDen: shimmering shield for projectiles. harness/dampen magicka as primary defense. Vines for healing. Stacking max magicka increases shield strength + wardens have healthy passive to increase shield cap
-- Overwhelming Surge and Necropotence --

I never played magsorc or got into magcro to offer any advice there. My stamcro uses spirit guardian and deaden pain, but i find necro to be more of a supportive role. Its difficult to secure a kill on my own. Being Argonian feels good too

BtB isnt even close meta on MagDK. Go into PvP and you see every magDk either using 1: overwhelming surge, malacath, grothdarr, trainee and a survivalbackbarset or 2: elf bane, grothdarr, malacath, endurance and trainee. That BSW/BtB would be smoked early by a proc magDK with mala

Wardens either go proc with icy conjuror/winterborn front, overwhelming surge back, grothdarr, trainee and malacath or necropotence with armor master back, master destro front with balorgh (or 1pc monsterset + malacath)

I mentioned my builds aren't up to date and my sets aren't special. I haven't been actively playing pvp ever since group BG was taken out. These are my mag classes and how i've played them. I was trying to help someone find other ways to improve survivability besides just a defensive set. The tips i was offering could be used with a magsorc who is better at kiting and shield stacking compared to a magcro who could probably get away with blocking using deaden pain and shield stacking. still not great in light armor, but possibly better at it than other mag classes. But, you're absolutely right that my builds wouldn't survive this proc meta.

LightYagami

In general, ignoring exceptional especial cases...:

1.You need considerable amount of stamina for breaking free, blocking, roll dodging, etc. in PvP compare with PvE. Stamina toons are better in this case.

2. Difference in armor rating of light and medium is quite significant, unless you make heavy armor builds, magicka toons are generally weaker in defense. Pure DPS build is good for team PvE, but balancing offensive and defensive abilities are important in PvP.

3. Mobility is also important in PvP. Stamina toons and medium armor are better at this (except Streak of magsorcs). Some slow magicka users like magdks may need to become vampires for mobility.

KhajiitLivesMatter

Ryuvain wrote: »

It feels like no matter what build I try, I can't have good damage without becoming so squishy that any melee will kill me. Is magicka just meant to be glass cannon pvp? I'm trying to find a way to improve but it often feels like I can't compete with bow snipe or two handed.

Tried out magsorc and magcro. But they feel pretty even. Healing feels ultimately useless too.

i can recommand mag dk my one has 45kresis about 3-5.5k dps (thats much in pvp duels) and enought healing that i normaly dont even need to care for it

Ryuvain

LightYagami wrote: »

In general, ignoring exceptional especial cases...:

1.You need considerable amount of stamina for breaking free, blocking, roll dodging, etc. in PvP compare with PvE. Stamina toons are better in this case.

2. Difference in armor rating of light and medium is quite significant, unless you make heavy armor builds, magicka toons are generally weaker in defense. Pure DPS build is good for team PvE, but balancing offensive and defensive abilities are important in PvP.

3. Mobility is also important in PvP. Stamina toons and medium armor are better at this (except Streak of magsorcs). Some slow magicka users like magdks may need to become vampires for mobility.

That's how I saw it. So many things that stam has advantage in compared to mag. It always makes me reconsider my entire build like I'm doing something wrong. Doesn't help that I need to stay mobile and out of range but they are able to break my cc due to having amazing stamina.

Also bow being stamina and out ranging all my moves while they're also tanked and have better stamina again. Nightblade i can't even keep out of range.

No matter how I look at it stam just seems better. I REALLY don't want to play stam, but this game hates hybrids.

Xolog4mer wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

It feels like no matter what build I try, I can't have good damage without becoming so squishy that any melee will kill me. Is magicka just meant to be glass cannon pvp? I'm trying to find a way to improve but it often feels like I can't compete with bow snipe or two handed.

Tried out magsorc and magcro. But they feel pretty even. Healing feels ultimately useless too.

i can recommand mag dk my one has 45kresis about 3-5.5k dps (thats much in pvp duels) and enought healing that i normaly dont even need to care for it

I tried dragonknight but it never really caught my attention like the other two classes I mentioned. It wasn't bad though.

KhajiitLivesMatter

Ryuvain wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

In general, ignoring exceptional especial cases...:

1.You need considerable amount of stamina for breaking free, blocking, roll dodging, etc. in PvP compare with PvE. Stamina toons are better in this case.

2. Difference in armor rating of light and medium is quite significant, unless you make heavy armor builds, magicka toons are generally weaker in defense. Pure DPS build is good for team PvE, but balancing offensive and defensive abilities are important in PvP.

3. Mobility is also important in PvP. Stamina toons and medium armor are better at this (except Streak of magsorcs). Some slow magicka users like magdks may need to become vampires for mobility.

That's how I saw it. So many things that stam has advantage in compared to mag. It always makes me reconsider my entire build like I'm doing something wrong. Doesn't help that I need to stay mobile and out of range but they are able to break my cc due to having amazing stamina.

Also bow being stamina and out ranging all my moves while they're also tanked and have better stamina again. Nightblade i can't even keep out of range.

No matter how I look at it stam just seems better. I REALLY don't want to play stam, but this game hates hybrids.

Xolog4mer wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

It feels like no matter what build I try, I can't have good damage without becoming so squishy that any melee will kill me. Is magicka just meant to be glass cannon pvp? I'm trying to find a way to improve but it often feels like I can't compete with bow snipe or two handed.

Tried out magsorc and magcro. But they feel pretty even. Healing feels ultimately useless too.

i can recommand mag dk my one has 45kresis about 3-5.5k dps (thats much in pvp duels) and enought healing that i normaly dont even need to care for it

I tried dragonknight but it never really caught my attention like the other two classes I mentioned. It wasn't bad though.

hybrids just dont work thats a fact.

u maybe just need to use a few difrent skills e.g. if u want to imrpove ur movment u could use psijik-> race against time = 30%speed buff and snare immunity

or as u said u played mag sorc obviousy streak

and why only improve ur movment u could just cripple to one of ur enemys like with deadric mines

also for increased movment u can slot the psijic ult (altleat at the backbar)

something else u could do if u want to become more tanky just try stacking magicka as high as possible and just use the 2 shilds u got as mag sorc

also if that dont helps ... ever thought about heavy armor? it isnt just a stam thing ...

also for increased stamina(break free / dodgerole) it doesnt hurt to maybe invest 10-15 points in stam so u can atleast use it a bit more often - and btw stamina user dont have endless resourced to if they break free they use the resource they could heal with if they are low on stam they maybe have to decide what a magicka doesnt

and btw u could still use dark exchange to heal / get lot of stam

u also mentioned healing .. 1. option for sure woul be backbar and a healing want with mutagen thats for sure not enought but for the rest u could use the matriarch heal pet which is basicly like breath of life or the dark exchange skill

Ryuvain

Xolog4mer wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

In general, ignoring exceptional especial cases...:

1.You need considerable amount of stamina for breaking free, blocking, roll dodging, etc. in PvP compare with PvE. Stamina toons are better in this case.

2. Difference in armor rating of light and medium is quite significant, unless you make heavy armor builds, magicka toons are generally weaker in defense. Pure DPS build is good for team PvE, but balancing offensive and defensive abilities are important in PvP.

3. Mobility is also important in PvP. Stamina toons and medium armor are better at this (except Streak of magsorcs). Some slow magicka users like magdks may need to become vampires for mobility.

That's how I saw it. So many things that stam has advantage in compared to mag. It always makes me reconsider my entire build like I'm doing something wrong. Doesn't help that I need to stay mobile and out of range but they are able to break my cc due to having amazing stamina.

Also bow being stamina and out ranging all my moves while they're also tanked and have better stamina again. Nightblade i can't even keep out of range.

No matter how I look at it stam just seems better. I REALLY don't want to play stam, but this game hates hybrids.

Xolog4mer wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

It feels like no matter what build I try, I can't have good damage without becoming so squishy that any melee will kill me. Is magicka just meant to be glass cannon pvp? I'm trying to find a way to improve but it often feels like I can't compete with bow snipe or two handed.

Tried out magsorc and magcro. But they feel pretty even. Healing feels ultimately useless too.

i can recommand mag dk my one has 45kresis about 3-5.5k dps (thats much in pvp duels) and enought healing that i normaly dont even need to care for it

I tried dragonknight but it never really caught my attention like the other two classes I mentioned. It wasn't bad though.

hybrids just dont work thats a fact.

u maybe just need to use a few difrent skills e.g. if u want to imrpove ur movment u could use psijik-> race against time = 30%speed buff and snare immunity

or as u said u played mag sorc obviousy streak

and why only improve ur movment u could just cripple to one of ur enemys like with deadric mines

also for increased movment u can slot the psijic ult (altleat at the backbar)

something else u could do if u want to become more tanky just try stacking magicka as high as possible and just use the 2 shilds u got as mag sorc

also if that dont helps ... ever thought about heavy armor? it isnt just a stam thing ...

also for increased stamina(break free / dodgerole) it doesnt hurt to maybe invest 10-15 points in stam so u can atleast use it a bit more often - and btw stamina user dont have endless resourced to if they break free they use the resource they could heal with if they are low on stam they maybe have to decide what a magicka doesnt

and btw u could still use dark exchange to heal / get lot of stam

u also mentioned healing .. 1. option for sure woul be backbar and a healing want with mutagen thats for sure not enought but for the rest u could use the matriarch heal pet which is basicly like breath of life or the dark exchange skill

My loadout was:
Lightning staff, crushing shock, frags, boundless storm, crit surge, matriarch.
Resto staff, radiating regen, ward, dark exchange, mines, matriarch.

Wasn't using streak since I figured they could just gapclose me over and over. Also losing 40% health to a stun and gapclose.

If sorc is mostly restricted to running I'd probably try to play my magcro more since I think they can be potentially tankier. I must be really doing something wrong on it.

Magcro loadout was:
Flame staff, blastbones, skeleton, mender, deaden pain, grasp
Resto staff, blastbones, both sustain siphons, beckoning armor, expunge.

Didn't like how skull worked and wasn't wanting to use staff spammable yet again.

KhajiitLivesMatter

Ryuvain wrote: »

Xolog4mer wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

In general, ignoring exceptional especial cases...:

1.You need considerable amount of stamina for breaking free, blocking, roll dodging, etc. in PvP compare with PvE. Stamina toons are better in this case.

2. Difference in armor rating of light and medium is quite significant, unless you make heavy armor builds, magicka toons are generally weaker in defense. Pure DPS build is good for team PvE, but balancing offensive and defensive abilities are important in PvP.

3. Mobility is also important in PvP. Stamina toons and medium armor are better at this (except Streak of magsorcs). Some slow magicka users like magdks may need to become vampires for mobility.

That's how I saw it. So many things that stam has advantage in compared to mag. It always makes me reconsider my entire build like I'm doing something wrong. Doesn't help that I need to stay mobile and out of range but they are able to break my cc due to having amazing stamina.

Also bow being stamina and out ranging all my moves while they're also tanked and have better stamina again. Nightblade i can't even keep out of range.

No matter how I look at it stam just seems better. I REALLY don't want to play stam, but this game hates hybrids.

Xolog4mer wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

It feels like no matter what build I try, I can't have good damage without becoming so squishy that any melee will kill me. Is magicka just meant to be glass cannon pvp? I'm trying to find a way to improve but it often feels like I can't compete with bow snipe or two handed.

Tried out magsorc and magcro. But they feel pretty even. Healing feels ultimately useless too.

i can recommand mag dk my one has 45kresis about 3-5.5k dps (thats much in pvp duels) and enought healing that i normaly dont even need to care for it

I tried dragonknight but it never really caught my attention like the other two classes I mentioned. It wasn't bad though.

hybrids just dont work thats a fact.

u maybe just need to use a few difrent skills e.g. if u want to imrpove ur movment u could use psijik-> race against time = 30%speed buff and snare immunity

or as u said u played mag sorc obviousy streak

and why only improve ur movment u could just cripple to one of ur enemys like with deadric mines

also for increased movment u can slot the psijic ult (altleat at the backbar)

something else u could do if u want to become more tanky just try stacking magicka as high as possible and just use the 2 shilds u got as mag sorc

also if that dont helps ... ever thought about heavy armor? it isnt just a stam thing ...

also for increased stamina(break free / dodgerole) it doesnt hurt to maybe invest 10-15 points in stam so u can atleast use it a bit more often - and btw stamina user dont have endless resourced to if they break free they use the resource they could heal with if they are low on stam they maybe have to decide what a magicka doesnt

and btw u could still use dark exchange to heal / get lot of stam

u also mentioned healing .. 1. option for sure woul be backbar and a healing want with mutagen thats for sure not enought but for the rest u could use the matriarch heal pet which is basicly like breath of life or the dark exchange skill

My loadout was:
Lightning staff, crushing shock, frags, boundless storm, crit surge, matriarch.
Resto staff, radiating regen, ward, dark exchange, mines, matriarch.

Wasn't using streak since I figured they could just gapclose me over and over. Also losing 40% health to a stun and gapclose.

If sorc is mostly restricted to running I'd probably try to play my magcro more since I think they can be potentially tankier. I must be really doing something wrong on it.

Magcro loadout was:
Flame staff, blastbones, skeleton, mender, deaden pain, grasp
Resto staff, blastbones, both sustain siphons, beckoning armor, expunge.

Didn't like how skull worked and wasn't wanting to use staff spammable yet again.

im only speaking about sorc atm cause i dont know to much about mag necro and i dont thing mag necro will fit the points u want to have...

so for ur magsorcu basicly missed a shild which is the biggset defensiv sorc has - (i mean light armor shild)
u dont have to use streak but its one of the best movment skills in the game if u dont like streak u wont like movment of any class cause streak is one of the best... and yea u COULD gap close behind u BUT 1. atleast the half dont has one and 2. if there is a tiny lag/u streak behind a rock u cant geclose ( i speak from expierence cause i tryed so often to gap close behind sorc didnt work that well)

Ryuvain

Xolog4mer wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Xolog4mer wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

In general, ignoring exceptional especial cases...:

1.You need considerable amount of stamina for breaking free, blocking, roll dodging, etc. in PvP compare with PvE. Stamina toons are better in this case.

2. Difference in armor rating of light and medium is quite significant, unless you make heavy armor builds, magicka toons are generally weaker in defense. Pure DPS build is good for team PvE, but balancing offensive and defensive abilities are important in PvP.

3. Mobility is also important in PvP. Stamina toons and medium armor are better at this (except Streak of magsorcs). Some slow magicka users like magdks may need to become vampires for mobility.

That's how I saw it. So many things that stam has advantage in compared to mag. It always makes me reconsider my entire build like I'm doing something wrong. Doesn't help that I need to stay mobile and out of range but they are able to break my cc due to having amazing stamina.

Also bow being stamina and out ranging all my moves while they're also tanked and have better stamina again. Nightblade i can't even keep out of range.

No matter how I look at it stam just seems better. I REALLY don't want to play stam, but this game hates hybrids.

Xolog4mer wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

It feels like no matter what build I try, I can't have good damage without becoming so squishy that any melee will kill me. Is magicka just meant to be glass cannon pvp? I'm trying to find a way to improve but it often feels like I can't compete with bow snipe or two handed.

Tried out magsorc and magcro. But they feel pretty even. Healing feels ultimately useless too.

i can recommand mag dk my one has 45kresis about 3-5.5k dps (thats much in pvp duels) and enought healing that i normaly dont even need to care for it

I tried dragonknight but it never really caught my attention like the other two classes I mentioned. It wasn't bad though.

hybrids just dont work thats a fact.

u maybe just need to use a few difrent skills e.g. if u want to imrpove ur movment u could use psijik-> race against time = 30%speed buff and snare immunity

or as u said u played mag sorc obviousy streak

and why only improve ur movment u could just cripple to one of ur enemys like with deadric mines

also for increased movment u can slot the psijic ult (altleat at the backbar)

something else u could do if u want to become more tanky just try stacking magicka as high as possible and just use the 2 shilds u got as mag sorc

also if that dont helps ... ever thought about heavy armor? it isnt just a stam thing ...

also for increased stamina(break free / dodgerole) it doesnt hurt to maybe invest 10-15 points in stam so u can atleast use it a bit more often - and btw stamina user dont have endless resourced to if they break free they use the resource they could heal with if they are low on stam they maybe have to decide what a magicka doesnt

and btw u could still use dark exchange to heal / get lot of stam

u also mentioned healing .. 1. option for sure woul be backbar and a healing want with mutagen thats for sure not enought but for the rest u could use the matriarch heal pet which is basicly like breath of life or the dark exchange skill

My loadout was:
Lightning staff, crushing shock, frags, boundless storm, crit surge, matriarch.
Resto staff, radiating regen, ward, dark exchange, mines, matriarch.

Wasn't using streak since I figured they could just gapclose me over and over. Also losing 40% health to a stun and gapclose.

If sorc is mostly restricted to running I'd probably try to play my magcro more since I think they can be potentially tankier. I must be really doing something wrong on it.

Magcro loadout was:
Flame staff, blastbones, skeleton, mender, deaden pain, grasp
Resto staff, blastbones, both sustain siphons, beckoning armor, expunge.

Didn't like how skull worked and wasn't wanting to use staff spammable yet again.

im only speaking about sorc atm cause i dont know to much about mag necro and i dont thing mag necro will fit the points u want to have...

so for ur magsorcu basicly missed a shild which is the biggset defensiv sorc has - (i mean light armor shild)
u dont have to use streak but its one of the best movment skills in the game if u dont like streak u wont like movment of any class cause streak is one of the best... and yea u COULD gap close behind u BUT 1. atleast the half dont has one and 2. if there is a tiny lag/u streak behind a rock u cant geclose ( i speak from expierence cause i tryed so often to gap close behind sorc didnt work that well)

I didn't know about shield stacking, but I'm going to try light armor shield alongside ward. Might have to play around with streak and see how it helps. Still sucks that I can't exactly fight them up close.