ESO, please lower the cost on some AOE`s

madman65

I`m looking at some AOE`s the are costly, Earthen and Grave Lord. If you compare these to the Warden`s Winter Embrace then they are costly but close to the same time elapse. Winter`s Embrace: Magicka 3240 @ 12 Seconds, Earthen Heart: Magicka 5670 @ 15 seconds, Grave Lord: Magicka 4950 @ 10 seconds. I use these on all my Mages for the backbar AOE`s, just wanting the cost on the Earthen and the Grave lowered a little.

Taleof2Cities

There are tons of ways to reduce skill costs without asking ZOS for a handout, @madman65.

Such as using 5-piece gear sets including Battlefield Acrobat or Alteration Mastery.

Another option is cost reduction glyphs on jewelry ... including the new prismatic glyphs that just came out with Antiquities.

It's also possible to switch race to take advantage of racial passives such as Breton.

DTStormfox

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

There are tons of ways to reduce skill costs without asking ZOS for a handout, @madman65.

Such as using 5-piece gear sets including Battlefield Acrobat or Alteration Mastery.

Another option is cost reduction glyphs on jewelry ... including the new prismatic glyphs that just came out with Antiquities.

It's also possible to switch race to take advantage of racial passives such as Breton.

That isn't really a solution, is it?
Because that means that, to continue on the example of the warden's AOE being more cost-efficient, a warden could run a five-piece damage set while a Dragon Knight is inherently forced to wear a sustain set to compensate for the shortcomings of the class, and thus sacrifice potential damage/healing, while the warden doesn't have to make such a sacrifice.

CaffeinatedMayhem

Learning how to sustain is part of combat in ESO. And honestly, DK isn't that difficult to sustain on, you simply have to know how.

It is a combination of timing attacks, cost reduction or regen glyphs, CP, and sets. No, warden's can't get away with zero extra sustain in Cyro; I main warden. I need sustain in NoCP just like everyone else, and I can run out of resources just like everyone else if I don't manage properly. It is easier to max sustain on a warden, but that's about it.

I don't wear a sustain set on my magDK either. He wears Elfbane and Willpower. But DK doesn't need 2 damage sets do they? The class has built in damage passives... that Warden lacks (no ice damage does not count, trust me)

The classes are relatively balanced, in absolute terms. Now, once sets and CP are added in, that's where the imbalance comes in. Would be nice if every class had a set that extended their DoT's by 5 seconds, not just DK. But hey, we can't have everything we want.

Taleof2Cities

DTStormfox wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

There are tons of ways to reduce skill costs without asking ZOS for a handout, @madman65.

Such as using 5-piece gear sets including Battlefield Acrobat or Alteration Mastery.

Another option is cost reduction glyphs on jewelry ... including the new prismatic glyphs that just came out with Antiquities.

It's also possible to switch race to take advantage of racial passives such as Breton.

That isn't really a solution, is it?
Because that means that, to continue on the example of the warden's AOE being more cost-efficient, a warden could run a five-piece damage set while a Dragon Knight is inherently forced to wear a sustain set to compensate for the shortcomings of the class, and thus sacrifice potential damage/healing, while the warden doesn't have to make such a sacrifice.

As alluded to in the post above mine, @DTStormfox, not all classes are created the same.

A class that might be lower in sustain will have advantages in other areas ... such as damage, overall stats, buff access, resistances, and so on.

Which is why theorycrafting and assessing an overall build takes precedent over catering to players who choose to forgo that assessment.

Idinuse

madman65 wrote: »

I`m looking at some AOE`s the are costly, Earthen and Grave Lord. If you compare these to the Warden`s Winter Embrace then they are costly but close to the same time elapse. Winter`s Embrace: Magicka 3240 @ 12 Seconds, Earthen Heart: Magicka 5670 @ 15 seconds, Grave Lord: Magicka 4950 @ 10 seconds. I use these on all my Mages for the backbar AOE`s, just wanting the cost on the Earthen and the Grave lowered a little.

Read thread through all this: Magicka.

Danksta

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

Learning how to sustain is part of combat in ESO. And honestly, DK isn't that difficult to sustain on, you simply have to know how.

It is a combination of timing attacks, cost reduction or regen glyphs, CP, and sets. No, warden's can't get away with zero extra sustain in Cyro; I main warden. I need sustain in NoCP just like everyone else, and I can run out of resources just like everyone else if I don't manage properly. It is easier to max sustain on a warden, but that's about it.

I don't wear a sustain set on my magDK either. He wears Elfbane and Willpower. But DK doesn't need 2 damage sets do they? The class has built in damage passives... that Warden lacks (no ice damage does not count, trust me)

The classes are relatively balanced, in absolute terms. Now, once sets and CP are added in, that's where the imbalance comes in. Would be nice if every class had a set that extended their DoT's by 5 seconds, not just DK. But hey, we can't have everything we want.

Why would you assume this is PvP related when the OP is talking about skills that cost 4k mag that someone would just walk out of in a second?

Everest_Lionheart

I feel this as a MagDK. It’s a tough class to play because the cost of the skills are expensive. I don’t PvP I am more into PvE solo, vet trails and dungeons I’m wearing mothers sorrow and Siroria with maw and maelstrom backbar. For sustain I use spell symmetry which can be tricky because it costs health and MagDK is notoriously squishy but when your healers and on point and you don’t cast it when being hit by hard hitting mechs you will be fine. Lots of other people prefer False Gods for sustain but Siroria hits way harder once you figure sustain out and learn to operate within the ring that it’s casts on the ground.

As for spell symmetry you need to cast it before you highest cost ability. For MagDK typically that is eruption with a cost of 5670 magicka. So casting spell symmetry is going to give you 3000 magicka and reduce the cost of your next skill by 33% dropping the cost of eruption to 3740. Now take that 3740 cost and subtract the 3000 magicka you got from spell symmetry and your net cost for one of your hardest hitting aoe/dots is 740 magicka.

Yes spell symmetry eats up a slot where you could put another damage skill, but it allows us to hit more spamables per rotation and. It have to worry about sustain. Now there is even more nuance to it as a DK when you are grabbing your synergies, hitting your pots and dropping your ultimate. Generally I never cast spell symmetry when my mag is above 50% but I almost always cast it before dropping my last eruption before my ultimate because I want as much mag a possible because I’m unloading the maximum spamables possible and I want to get as many whips in when my standard is active so I don’t want to risk falling under 50% at any point in ultimate phase. You also have to decide in execute phase if it’s worth it. If you are at say 45% mag in execute phase maybe you want to skip the symmetry to get back to spamable faster. You’ll understand the nuance of your particular build as you get more experience with the skill.

Anyway give spell symmetry a look. It’s not for everyone, false gods is easy sustain mode though so maybe opt for that if you aren’t comfortable managing many things at once.

volkeswagon

I always thought that skills cost too much. I always run out of stamina

madman65

DTStormFox:
That isn't really a solution, is it?
Because that means that, to continue on the example of the warden's AOE being more cost-efficient, a warden could run a five-piece damage set while a Dragon Knight is inherently forced to wear a sustain set to compensate for the shortcomings of the class, and thus sacrifice potential damage/healing, while the warden doesn't have to make such a sacrifice.

The thread is not about sustain but cost compared to other classes. DTStormFox is correct, I have the race change token and my DK has been changed twice. I`m about to try a third change to High Elf, i`m go to use the benefit of skill activation to see if that will help.

CaffeinatedMayhem:
It is a combination of timing attacks, cost reduction or regen glyphs, CP, and sets. No, warden's can't get away with zero extra sustain in Cyro; I main warden. I need sustain in NoCP just like everyone else, and I can run out of resources just like everyone else if I don't manage properly. It is easier to max sustain on a warden, but that's about it.

I don't wear a sustain set on my magDK either. He wears Elfbane and Willpower. But DK doesn't need 2 damage sets do they? The class has built in damage passives... that Warden lacks (no ice damage does not count, trust me)

This is for all the game not Cyro, every player should have the opportunity to make high damage just like the other classes. I have a Warden as well but I still run out of Magicka it just takes longer and there is the problem. DK`s and Necros run out faster then the damage goes down. Warden`s last longer therefor the uptime on damage is better, I take my Warden into any event with confidence but not with my DK or Necro.

If anyone puts the same gear from a Warden onto a DK or Necro, setup the CP`s and try to get skills and passives close as I have you will see the sustain problems. Some will argue but try to setup your characters to find out.

CaffeinatedMayhem

madman65 wrote: »

wrote some stuff

Dude, in PvE you are being fed orbs by your healer, thus sustain is almost a non-issue. Again, learning to sustain damage (eg, manage how much magicka you are using vs orbs vs HA restore) is part of the game. I can still run out of magicka on a warden wearing false gods in PvE. However, in PvE my wardens wear 2 damage sets because I can't afford to lose the extra spell power like a Sorc can.

I rarely take my warden into vet trials. Why? I simply cannot put out enough damage. Warden can come close to my sorc, if I put the sorc in second tier gear and leave her CP set for PvP not PvE. And to do that kind of damage, I'm working twice as hard on the warden as I do on the sorc. It's far easier to manage sustain on a class that has good damage passives, meaning that taking the time to HA doesn't impact your DPS as much. Warden is much more difficult to sustain on IMO. But then, I seem to understand how to sustain damage, where people here think you should be able to spam as much as you want all the time and never have to think about restoring resources.

madman65

Well thanks for explaining that even Wardens are having trouble with sustain issues although this is not about sustain. If Sorcerers are able to run PVP setup in a Trial then issues need to be addressed. The title: ESO, please lower the cost of some AOE`s. I did type that my Warden runs out of Magicka, it just takes longer therefor the damage is higher.

jircris11

I play warden magika build, honestly I don't have the issues you mention. Learn to weave heavy attacks in to casting and proper rotations. It will help you a lot.

Everest_Lionheart

jircris11 wrote: »

I play warden magika build, honestly I don't have the issues you mention. Learn to weave heavy attacks in to casting and proper rotations. It will help you a lot.

I find magicka players that struggle with sustain are generally over casting skills, whether it’s casting dots/buffs too soon or casting one too many spamables in their rotation. Tightening the rotation certainly helps.

Proper food and CP allocation also helps. Proper enchants on equipment helps. Quality of the equipment also helps. The gain is minimal from purple to gold but all those pieces together add up.

If you are having trouble sustaining after all those things you may have to use a piece or two of arcane jewelry for the extra mag or an absorb magicka enchant in a staff. I was there for a while myself swapping out 1 piece of jewelry at a time and eventually my weapon enchants. I even had to run an infused helmet for a while instead of divine in order to sustain. My MagDK even had to use chains as spamable for a while to sustain (bad idea by the way)

As I mentioned in an earlier post give spell symmetry a look. Learn how and when to use it. With a tight enough rotation you may only end up using it every 3rd or 4th rotation. That’s a net gain over heavy attacking for rss if you have to use the skill periodically.

Anyway in the end you can’t have infinite sustain plus super high damage numbers without a solid rotation and very few people manage to put both elements together unless they have all of the other pieces mentioned above in place and have a solid group around them.