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Add a week of testing with healing stacking disabled please

ManDraKE
ManDraKE
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We have been saying for years that the main offender of lag in cyrodrill is ball groups behaviour. The way those group build and play, having for example 15 rapidregens/echoing vigors and other HoTs/effects that calculate on EACH player every second, creates a snowball effect on performance. Is very easy to notice when there are ball groups online in the campaing or not, there is a massive performance difference during the day compared to primetime, even with the camping being poplock in both cases. And don't' get me wrong, im not blaming the players of those groups, they are just doing what is effective and encouraged with the current game mechanics, and is understandable.

The problem is not just the calculations producted by having a lot of ppl spam-casting HoTs on groups of people, but also each individual players goes around with 10/15+ effects ticking every second. A simple math can proof that a zergball group of 12 ppl can produce more calculations to the server than 48 "pug" players, by a large margin.

Can we please test 1 week with healing stacking disabled? if for example you have 1 rapidregen on you, any other applicaiton would refresh the duration instead of stacking. Just for the sake of testing, i know that a proper solution for this would have to consider if the effect being applied is stronger/weaker than the one already present on the player, etc, etc, but just a quick dirty test to validate this. In combination with the already tested change of Ally-targeted abilities only applied to group members if possible, to simplify the calculations related to casting the abilities.

Is too much to ask? why we need to endure another two weeks of abilities like jabs going into AoE cooldown when we all know that is not the issue?
Edited by ManDraKE on October 17, 2020 4:53PM
  • actosh
    actosh
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    Would be nice if zos could run the test as suggested.
  • Playnice
    Playnice
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    3 reasons this is a great idea: First, it would equalize healing in larger groups vs smaller groups. Second, it still promotes the idea of a 24 person group size. Third, you would dramatically reduce the number of server calculations without having to create cooldowns or ramping costs
    Playing since Feb 2015 / TES fan since 2002
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  • Greasytengu
    Greasytengu
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    Ok, but only if Dots are unable to stack as well. Would reduce the need for purge spamming too.
    " I nEeD HeAlInG!!! "
  • StShoot
    StShoot
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    Ok, but only if Dots are unable to stack as well. Would reduce the need for purge spamming too.

    Keep in mind that there are classes that relay on dots, if you make them unstackable they will be even more worthless than they allready are
  • Elo106
    Elo106
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    StShoot wrote: »
    Ok, but only if Dots are unable to stack as well. Would reduce the need for purge spamming too.

    Keep in mind that there are classes that relay on dots, if you make them unstackable they will be even more worthless than they allready are

    Different Dots stack, the same dot wouldnt by that logic?
    Eg: 2x degeneration = only 1 would do damage on you
    Eg2: degeneration and burning embers = both do damage
  • Greasytengu
    Greasytengu
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    Elo106 wrote: »
    StShoot wrote: »
    Ok, but only if Dots are unable to stack as well. Would reduce the need for purge spamming too.

    Keep in mind that there are classes that relay on dots, if you make them unstackable they will be even more worthless than they allready are

    Different Dots stack, the same dot wouldnt by that logic?
    Eg: 2x degeneration = only 1 would do damage on you
    Eg2: degeneration and burning embers = both do damage

    Exactly this! This sort of change isnt really meant to punish anyone, just to reduce calculations and maybe close the gap between small mans and large mans.
    " I nEeD HeAlInG!!! "
  • pma_pacifier
    pma_pacifier
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    No more tests pleaseeeee. It was still laggy af with no ball groups on.
  • RealPhoenix
    RealPhoenix
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    I would be on board with this too, for 2 simple reasons:
    - It does not destroy the core gameplay mechanics (compared to other tests)
    - It is worth it from ZOS side to gather this data to see its effect.

    As already mentioned above, I dont think this will work unless DoTs also dont stack, cause otherwise you will be at an extreme disadvantage in outnumbered fights. If I remember correctly, such a system was already proposed in ESO Live once, they should really give it a shot.

    Of course, in the future there are some adjustments to be made to balance this out, but thats not the purpose of this test (a test like this would certainly be less of a "balance" problem than a 3s cooldown on half the abilities in the game)
    Edited by RealPhoenix on October 19, 2020 2:50PM
    PC EU - @RealPhoenix | Cyrodiil´s FIST | 1500 CP | Dedicated PvP Player | 36k Achievement Points
  • Scion_of_Yggdrasil
    Scion_of_Yggdrasil
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    Seems like a reasonable test. But would this restrict all AOE heals? Or just AOE heals of the same type (i.e. warden aoe heal vs resto staff aoe heal)?

    I don't think this is the solution, but at this point, I think the answer is multiple small solutions to achieve better performance.
    No more tests pleaseeeee. It was still laggy af with no ball groups on.

    I don't see how stopping further testing would resolve the issue... your complaint is why we obviously need to do more testing.
  • Elo106
    Elo106
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    Seems like a reasonable test. But would this restrict all AOE heals? Or just AOE heals of the same type (i.e. warden aoe heal vs resto staff aoe heal)?

    I don't think this is the solution, but at this point, I think the answer is multiple small solutions to achieve better performance.
    No more tests pleaseeeee. It was still laggy af with no ball groups on.

    I don't see how stopping further testing would resolve the issue... your complaint is why we obviously need to do more testing.

    Only restrict the same skill, the same name, maybe even same morph should do it already.
  • Elo106
    Elo106
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    @ZOS_GinaBruno can we get some feedback on non stackable skills? Definatly worth a test instead of cooldowns no one wants...
  • NeillMcAttack
    NeillMcAttack
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    I fully support this approach. It also incentives bringing a diverse group and not stacking Magdens for example. Communication between group members on what morphs to have etc.
    Like, should a group need more than one illustrious healing spell?
    PC EU - NoCP PvP, is real PvP
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  • NeillMcAttack
    NeillMcAttack
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    It’s worth mentioning that this should also apply to damage dots! Like a player shouldn’t have more than one Poison Inject on them, or proc set dot. Maybe even just limit it to one proc set dot. To make it more solo player friendly.
    PC EU - NoCP PvP, is real PvP
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    @ McAttack in game
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  • Elo106
    Elo106
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    It’s worth mentioning that this should also apply to damage dots! Like a player shouldn’t have more than one Poison Inject on them, or proc set dot. Maybe even just limit it to one proc set dot. To make it more solo player friendly.

    ^this
    I should be atleast worth a try
  • alterfenixeb17_ESO
    alterfenixeb17_ESO
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    Would be a good idea to check both heals and dots stacking out however for this test "usual" combat rules should apply (so no group limits, cool downs and so on).
  • TheMightyRevan
    TheMightyRevan
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    this would literally kill group play in cyrodiil
  • ManDraKE
    ManDraKE
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    this would literally kill group play in cyrodiil

    no, you dont need 15 rapid regens to play in group. In fact that would make the healer role more relevant, because you won't have 15 magika DPS spamming rapid regen for cross-healing.
  • alterfenixeb17_ESO
    alterfenixeb17_ESO
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    this would literally kill group play in cyrodiil
    The only thing that it would kill for sure (should that be about dots too) is targeting individuals and spamming them with dots. As for heals this mostly would hit organized ball groups as they would have to just start playing more carefully but that's it really. Something that organized groups were doing since DAoC now would be fully introduced in here as well.

    Bigger problems are rather organisational changes i.e. my heal/dot is stronger than already applied. Should that remainder of it be increased accordingly using my stats? Should it be refreshed completely? I did cast something but it was not applied as it was already done by someone else. I did everything right si I should not be punished. Should I then get any AP for that? If yes then how to calculate it?

    Agreed that it does bring things to address but then most of them would be easy to do so and none of them would be really group killers.
  • nk125x
    nk125x
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    PLEASE NO MORE TESTS
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