FIX PROC SETS easy

Lapin_Logic

The problem of immensely high pressure or high burst proc sets in PVP is that these

.Can be stacked
.Cost little to no resources invested and can be reapplied with no penalty to the wearer but a large investment to the recipient to cleanse/counter
.Can be synchronized to do the heavy lifting


The introduction of Mythic items revealed a dev power, the power to limit equipped item types regardless of slot.

So, Just like Mythics they should limit Proc sets to only 1 at a time.

You could have builds limited to
.1 monster set
.1 proc set (only counted if 5 pieces worn)
.1 mythic
.1 arena weapon
.1 or 2 buff/active stat set.

Secondarily more Proc sets should employ the "building ramping stacks" mechanic making the sets only strong with sustained engagement in combat instead of instant and up front.

Some sets could employ Kiss Curse mechanics, for instance "Vicecanon of Venom, Douse your weapons in a Deadly neuro toxin Dealing X poison damage over X seconds, after X seconds succumb to the residual poison on the weapon taking X damage and Minor X for X seconds.

This removes the ability of already DoT heavy builds stacking even more DoTs (basically free bar slots).

That would simplify the devs job of balance since they don't have to factor procs lining up either Deliberately or via RNG and they don't have to factor in that proc damage is FREE damage helping them balance resource management too, this means that they could also re tune the proc sets damage making more of them viable in PvE also similar to Reliquen.

*Genuine discussion, but Grabs popcorn ready for the string of haters*

Xiomaro

Honestly, I think a global cooldown on procs would do the trick for keeping procs balanced in PVE and PVP.

In PVE, sustained damage is king so a global cooldown on procs wouldn't really matter.

In PVP, burst is king. And the inability to stack your procs quickly would make it easier to counter.

I would start with a 1 second cooldown so you can only proc one set per ability. But you could change it to 2 or 3 seconds to punish multiple proc use more heavily.

The only challenge is things like Stuhn's and Briarheart. Strictly speaking, they're procs too. I guess you could have different rules for procs that buff the user as opposed to debuff the opponent?

Lapin_Logic

Xiomaro wrote: »

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The only challenge is things like Stuhn's and Briarheart. Strictly speaking, they're procs too. I guess you could have different rules for procs that buff the user as opposed to debuff the opponent?

Yeah, I kind of include Briarheart, Fury, Seventh etc as a "Buff/active stats set" as they don't inflict damage in themselves they just boost your character that is bound to costs and timers.

Danksta

Xiomaro wrote: »

Honestly, I think a global cooldown on procs would do the trick for keeping procs balanced in PVE and PVP.

In PVE, sustained damage is king so a global cooldown on procs wouldn't really matter.

In PVP, burst is king. And the inability to stack your procs quickly would make it easier to counter.

I would start with a 1 second cooldown so you can only proc one set per ability. But you could change it to 2 or 3 seconds to punish multiple proc use more heavily.

The only challenge is things like Stuhn's and Briarheart. Strictly speaking, they're procs too. I guess you could have different rules for procs that buff the user as opposed to debuff the opponent?

Stam dps use two proc sets so it would have an affect on PvE.

Lapin_Logic

Danksta wrote: »

show previous quotes

Xiomaro wrote: »

Honestly, I think a global cooldown on procs would do the trick for keeping procs balanced in PVE and PVP.

In PVE, sustained damage is king so a global cooldown on procs wouldn't really matter.

In PVP, burst is king. And the inability to stack your procs quickly would make it easier to counter.

I would start with a 1 second cooldown so you can only proc one set per ability. But you could change it to 2 or 3 seconds to punish multiple proc use more heavily.

The only challenge is things like Stuhn's and Briarheart. Strictly speaking, they're procs too. I guess you could have different rules for procs that buff the user as opposed to debuff the opponent?

Stam dps use two proc sets so it would have an affect on PvE.

What sets are you talking about though? Relequen as an "inflicts damage" proc set sure but what other proc sets are you paring with it?

It would be moot regardless because they would get retuned to be fit for purpose on the devs calculation matrix and combat team tester [snip]

[Edited to remove Inappropriate Content]
Edit... inappropriate? Ok "Target Skeleton DPS testers" seeing as the standard community term the "Stream Team" use is apparently now "Pornographic" according to the "Educational message" I received in my inbox

Recapitated

Xiomaro wrote: »

Honestly, I think a global cooldown on procs would do the trick for keeping procs balanced in PVE and PVP.

In PVE, sustained damage is king so a global cooldown on procs wouldn't really matter.

In PVP, burst is king. And the inability to stack your procs quickly would make it easier to counter.

I would start with a 1 second cooldown so you can only proc one set per ability. But you could change it to 2 or 3 seconds to punish multiple proc use more heavily.

The only challenge is things like Stuhn's and Briarheart. Strictly speaking, they're procs too. I guess you could have different rules for procs that buff the user as opposed to debuff the opponent?

If you off-balance someone then damage them and then cloak Stuhns's isn't doing anything. The problem is entirely for sets that trigger damage.

Proc sets is a misnomer anyway when the probability of random occurrence is 100%

ichsuisme

When shield stacking was an issue, they capped the strength of shields and tied the cap to max health.

When oblivion damage was over-performing, they capped the strength of oblivion damage and tied the damage to max health.

The devs should just follow their own established pattern. Cap the amount of damage each proc set can do, based on the health of the target.

Maybe your proc can deal 9000 damage with your set up, but if the cap per proc is 15% of a target’s hp, but your target only has 28k hp in pvp, your proc damage cannot deal more than 4200 damage against that target.

Play around with the numbers as needed, but this makes the most sense to me and it’d continue the tradition of implementing hp-related caps to over-performing aspects of the game.

—
If they do finally they adjust proc sets, I’d like them to address it via Battle Spirit. Many of the gimmicky proc sets are fun when solo completing a pve zone; don’t nerf non-competitive pve fun.

Also, not all proc sets are made equal. Proc sets that do DoT damage instead of instant burst aren’t as brutal, so maybe each tick of their proc can’t pass the suggested 15% cap but the total tick damage can be higher. Just a thought.

Swomp23

ichsuisme wrote: »

When shield stacking was an issue, they capped the strength of shields and tied the cap to max health.

When oblivion damage was over-performing, they capped the strength of oblivion damage and tied the damage to max health.

The devs should just follow their own established pattern. Cap the amount of damage each proc set can do, based on the health of the target.

Maybe your proc can deal 9000 damage with your set up, but if the cap per proc is 15% of a target’s hp, but your target only has 28k hp in pvp, your proc damage cannot deal more than 4200 damage against that target.

Play around with the numbers as needed, but this makes the most sense to me and it’d continue the tradition of implementing hp-related caps to over-performing aspects of the game.

—
If they do finally they adjust proc sets, I’d like them to address it via Battle Spirit. Many of the gimmicky proc sets are fun when solo completing a pve zone; don’t nerf non-competitive pve fun.

Also, not all proc sets are made equal. Proc sets that do DoT damage instead of instant burst aren’t as brutal, so maybe each tick of their proc can’t pass the suggested 15% cap but the total tick damage can be higher. Just a thought.

I agree with everything you said except the last sentence. Sheer venom/venomous smite is pure cancer in BGs. Same with Grothdaar/Overwhelming on magdks.
Other than that, capping proc damage to target’s max *** might be the best way to keep them relevant in pve while limiting their overpoweredness in pvp. If they do that, no need to tie it to battle spirit, since pve mobs have much more than 30k hp anyway.

ichsuisme

Swomp23 wrote: »

Sheer venom/venomous smite is pure cancer in BGs. Same with Grothdaar/Overwhelming on magdks.

Maybe individual sets like those would need to be adjusted separately — or maybe they actually would need to adhere to a max health-based damage cap too.

Either way glad you liked the core idea. I think it’s in line with past changes and it’d effectively tone down proc builds. If they actually ever address proc damage, I hope they do it this way.

Recapitated

ichsuisme wrote: »

show previous quotes

Swomp23 wrote: »

Sheer venom/venomous smite is pure cancer in BGs. Same with Grothdaar/Overwhelming on magdks.

Maybe individual sets like those would need to be adjusted separately — or maybe they actually would need to adhere to a max health-based damage cap too.

Either way glad you liked the core idea. I think it’s in line with past changes and it’d effectively tone down proc builds. If they actually ever address proc damage, I hope they do it this way.

This isn't a bad idea, but yeah burst proc sets are actually not that common. The problem is mostly people putting fatal amounts of DOTs on you in one GCD then disengaging. It's fair for DOT sets to have a higher total cap but 15% per tick probably wouldn't affect their damage at all.