Unlimited by META: vSS low CP Run.

AyaDark

Hi.
And it is me again.
[snip]

Because it always is like:
-I need some gear? Can i go in raid with you ?
-Make necromancer 810+ and we will think about it.
-But i want to play my templar.
-No necro no sets | do not care.

---

[snip]
-Man i really need some sets.
-Lets get some! You can take your friends with you.
-But they are all low level ?
-Who cares.

Tank 380+, some 180+ DDs and heals and some 810+ players to help tham.

https://youtu.be/4qme8unsTd4

More like this here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/549000/how-many-of-us-can-you-handle-vso#latest

[edited for baiting]

gatekeeper13

vSS trial is actually pretty easy as far as group plays in coordination and follows simple strategy. There is nothing special besides staying out of aoe and killing certain adds in a specific order. Still, people need to have some experience about basic stuff and do some decent dps. Not high, just decent.

The reason why many groups ask for 810 CP players is not that much about the CP points themselves. It's because if you were going to gamble, then an 810 CP player would have more chances at being better and more experienced than a low CP player. Not saying that a 810CP player is necessary better than a 300CP player though.

Although I dont even do high dps (65k on trial dummy), in my succesful vSS run I was doing 18% of group dps. Which means that the trial is perfectly doable with mediocre dps.

As for the video (where 6/12 players where 810 or close), as I said, low CP means nothing if you know the players are ok. But what happens if players are random and dont know each other? What are they going to do? Risk getting DDs that would do 10k dps?

I have tried many pug runs in vSS and many of them could not even clean half of adds in first boss before dragon landed again.

pod88kk

B..b..b..but I like the meta and so do my friends 0.0

mairwen85

pod88kk wrote: »

B..b..b..but I like the meta and so do my friends 0.0

What friends? (aparently)

AyaDark

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

vSS trial is actually pretty easy as far as group plays in coordination and follows simple strategy. There is nothing special besides staying out of aoe and killing certain adds in a specific order. Still, people need to have some experience about basic stuff and do some decent dps. Not high, just decent.

The reason why many groups ask for 810 CP players is not that much about the CP points themselves. It's because if you were going to gamble, then an 810 CP player would have more chances at being better and more experienced than a low CP player. Not saying that a 810CP player is necessary better than a 300CP player though.

Although I dont even do high dps (65k on trial dummy), in my succesful vSS run I was doing 18% of group dps. Which means that the trial is perfectly doable with mediocre dps.

As for the video (where 6/12 players where 810 or close), as I said, low CP means nothing if you know the players are ok. But what happens if players are random and dont know each other? What are they going to do? Risk getting DDs that would do 10k dps?

I have tried many pug runs in vSS and many of them could not even clean half of adds in first boss before dragon landed again.

All trials are pretty easy if people do not fail the mechanics. Difference is only how many mechanik you need people on it.

As example vCR - 2 portal groups, if you have not enough dps to kill before second group go portal.

If all 2 portal groups is ok, you need people who do not fail on upper level.

That is all.

Nothing is hard if people do not fail the mechanicks.

But some of them do, so it is simpler do dps before it starts, it is all the meta is about.

Kill the boss before it show any mechanick, because people afraid to fail it.

It is all, nothing is difficult in this game. But for some trials you just have to have more good playing friends.

Or dps before boss do something or it will be a fail

mairwen85

AyaDark wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

vSS trial is actually pretty easy as far as group plays in coordination and follows simple strategy. There is nothing special besides staying out of aoe and killing certain adds in a specific order. Still, people need to have some experience about basic stuff and do some decent dps. Not high, just decent.

The reason why many groups ask for 810 CP players is not that much about the CP points themselves. It's because if you were going to gamble, then an 810 CP player would have more chances at being better and more experienced than a low CP player. Not saying that a 810CP player is necessary better than a 300CP player though.

Although I dont even do high dps (65k on trial dummy), in my succesful vSS run I was doing 18% of group dps. Which means that the trial is perfectly doable with mediocre dps.

As for the video (where 6/12 players where 810 or close), as I said, low CP means nothing if you know the players are ok. But what happens if players are random and dont know each other? What are they going to do? Risk getting DDs that would do 10k dps?

I have tried many pug runs in vSS and many of them could not even clean half of adds in first boss before dragon landed again.

All trials are pretty easy if people do not fail the mechanics. Difference is only how many mechanik you need people on it.

As example vCR - 2 portal groups, if you have not enough dps to kill before second group go portal.

If all 2 portal groups is ok, you need people who do not fail on upper level.

That is all.

Nothing is hard if people do not fail the mechanicks.

But some of them do, so it is simpler do dps before it starts, it is all the meta is about.

Kill the boss before it show any mechanick, because people afraid to fail it.

It is all, nothing is difficult in this game. But for some trials you just have to have more good playing friends.

Or dps before boss do something or it will be a fail

I don't think its fear of failing, but efficiency in completing within a certain timeframe. If you can skip mechs, why not skip mechs? Not all mechanics work like that either, and in fairness, while I applaud your achievement here, it's unnecessary effort, so I question what point you are trying to actually make--even in such groups that you determine as being limited by meta, there is a curve to learning mechanics, when it is safe to burn, and when those mech need to be observed. I get damage may not need to be as great as possible to clear, and for those who struggle to achieve such levels of dps, mechanics will always need to be respected. Your post feels like unnecessary humble bragging without due attainment in my honest opinion.

Jaimeh

OP, I think most people can appreciate that CP/gear do not equal experience, as has been documented by many naked trial runs, or runs without CP allocated, etc. Having just a few experienced people in a run, can make a huge difference, however, like the other comment said above, PUGs with a majority of lowbies and/or inexperienced players very often fail, and are very different from what you have demonstrated.

mairwen85

Jaimeh wrote: »

OP, I think most people can appreciate that CP/gear do not equal experience, as has been documented by many naked trial runs, or runs without CP allocated, etc. Having just a few experienced people in a run, can make a huge difference, however, like the other comment said above, PUGs with a majority of lowbies and/or inexperienced players very often fail, and are very different from what you have demonstrated.

Agreed. Content is no harder than the people doing it make it. Groups and the individual experience and skill of its members make content difficult, not mechanics.

---

Edit to add
If that was OP's actual point, they went a long way round to say it, and missed a few key points along the way.

AyaDark

Jaimeh wrote: »

OP, I think most people can appreciate that CP/gear do not equal experience, as has been documented by many naked trial runs, or runs without CP allocated, etc. Having just a few experienced people in a run, can make a huge difference, however, like the other comment said above, PUGs with a majority of lowbies and/or inexperienced players very often fail, and are very different from what you have demonstrated.

Half of that players were the first time there.

And it is 2 different way of play ad thinking.

First - you empower some [snip] part of the group with your own sets. Count on them. [snip]

Second - you empower your self.
And you play like you want.
If you do some buffs it is good, but you must not do it.

After some period of time you can make your own build, that is comfortable for you to play. Count on your self. And do not die, tank, heal dps just like you want.
It is more interesting to play that way.

If you kill boss faster on 1 minute will it be funny for you? May be. But it can be more uncomfortable to play.

So if you do not like some thing, but it make 1% more dps will you chouse it ? For meta yes.
For no meta ? No.

But if some thing is more comfortable to you to play you upgrade it in your own favaratable playstyle. And will always do better than those standart meta does. You will have more option. Not just dps - may be heal, tankness, aoe dps and etc.
And what will be better ? On the paper meta of course.

In reality, just as you say skill , but your gear and your play style is your skill, that will never be powered by some other guys meta, so it is anchor fo a lot of players, who just try to copy other guys play style.
And copy is what a meta does. It is not like a lot of people want to play.

[edited for baiting]

Jaimeh

AyaDark wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

OP, I think most people can appreciate that CP/gear do not equal experience, as has been documented by many naked trial runs, or runs without CP allocated, etc. Having just a few experienced people in a run, can make a huge difference, however, like the other comment said above, PUGs with a majority of lowbies and/or inexperienced players very often fail, and are very different from what you have demonstrated.

Half of that players were the first time there.

And it is 2 different way of play ad thinking.

First - you empower some eletist part of the group with your own sets. Count on them. And your play is just like ... . Nothing interesting at all.

Second - you empower your self.
And you play like you want.
If you do some buffs it is good, but you must not do it.

After some period of time you can make your own build, that is comfortable for you to play. Count on your self. And do not die, tank, heal dps just like you want.
It is more interesting to play that way.

If you kill boss faster on 1 minute will it be funny for you? May be. But it can be more uncomfortable to play.

So if you do not like some thing, but it make 1% more dps will you chouse it ? For meta yes.
For no meta ? No.

But if some thing is more comfortable to you to play you upgrade it in your own favaratable playstyle. And will always do better than those standart meta does. You will have more option. Not just dps - may be heal, tankness, aoe dps and etc.
And what will be better ? On the paper meta of course.

In reality, just as you say skill , but your gear and your play style is your skill, that will never be powered by some other guys meta, so it is anchor fo a lot of players, who just try to copy other guys play style.
And copy is what a meta does. It is not like a lot of people want to play.

You can do anything, besides top score pushing, on all sorts of builds. I have been to 12-sorc runs, or 12-stam runs; if you know your class/role, and the trial mechanics, you can play as you like (to a certain extend, and depending on your goals). I don't think the meta-proponenents are saying that only meta-followers can clear trials--and even within meta-groups, there's still many ways to optimize. Those groups don't use optimization just to clear the trial, it's to achieve a certain score goal, and of course, their strategies shouldn't be followed by people who have different objectives. In fact, following meta builds and configurations, when a player or a group is not experienced enough, will perhaps cause more detriment than progress. Meta is not necessary for the majority of the content, but that's not to say it doesn't have its place, or can help a given player/group. As always, it depends on the content, and the experience, and I do think a well-rounded end-game player should have awareness of the meta, even if they don't follow it.

mairwen85

I get the feeling meta doesn't mean wat you think it does. It's not just about damage. Regardless, the game gives a lot of freedom to play how you want, in such I don't understand the passive vitriol in your posts vs what you deem meta. It doesn't have to be a you vs them approach or mentality here--doing as you do with the group you do it with is great, why does that have to be reported out in a manner of veiled attack? [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Grandchamp1989

AyaDark wrote: »

Hi.
And it is me again.
[snip]

Because it always is like:
-I need some gear? Can i go in raid with you ?
-Make necromancer 810+ and we will think about it.
-But i want to play my templar.
-No necro no sets | do not care.

---

[snip]
-Man i really need some sets.
-Lets get some! You can take your friends with you.
-But they are all low level ?
-Who cares.

Tank 380+, some 180+ DDs and heals and some 810+ players to help tham.

https://youtu.be/4qme8unsTd4

More like this here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/549000/how-many-of-us-can-you-handle-vso#latest

[edited for baiting]

That is pretty awesome.

Most vSS trials I have seen the minimun requirements are

dd: 45k dps
healer: Olo, Hollow, and two other dps sets I forget for debuff
Tank: Alkosh, Ebon, PA, Yolna

810cp + show achievement

It's extremely rigid

This is basicly show the bird to all that, showing it can be done.

colossalvoids

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

Hi.
And it is me again.
[snip]

Because it always is like:
-I need some gear? Can i go in raid with you ?
-Make necromancer 810+ and we will think about it.
-But i want to play my templar.
-No necro no sets | do not care.

---

[snip]
-Man i really need some sets.
-Lets get some! You can take your friends with you.
-But they are all low level ?
-Who cares.

Tank 380+, some 180+ DDs and heals and some 810+ players to help tham.

https://youtu.be/4qme8unsTd4

More like this here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/549000/how-many-of-us-can-you-handle-vso#latest

[edited for baiting]

That is pretty awesome.

Most vSS trials I have seen the minimun requirements are

dd: 45k dps
healer: Olo, Hollow, and two other dps sets I forget for debuff
Tank: Alkosh, Ebon, PA, Yolna

810cp + show achievement

It's extremely rigid

This is basicly show the bird to all that, showing it can be done.

That's for farm runs, people want to get in comfortably and be done quickly. If you want an actual progression through the trials I'd say better find a specialised guild for that as it's not what most people in raiding guids up for.

Everyone knows you don't need much cp or exceptional gear for a completion, but you should find people on the same page as yours and manage expectations to not be like OP blaming people left and right.

josiahva

mairwen85 wrote: »

I get the feeling meta doesn't mean wat you think it does. It's not just about damage. Regardless, the game gives a lot of freedom to play how you want, in such I don't understand the passive vitriol in your posts vs what you deem meta. It doesn't have to be a you vs them approach or mentality here--doing as you do with the group you do it with is great, why does that have to be reported out in a manner of veiled attack? [snip]

[edited for baiting]

I think you(and others) are misunderstanding what the OP is trying to say here. I am going to go out on a limb and say English is not their first language, so a lot is lost in translation. Anyone who has ever pugged trials in Craglorn(or attempted to) has seen this:

Trial Lead: "looking for 4 DPS for vHRC"(or whatever other trial of your choice)
Trial Seeker: /whisper "I'll DPS it"
Trial Lead: "Do you have clear?"
Trial Seeker: "No."
Trial Lead: "What is your CP level?"
Trial Seeker: "300CP"
Trial Lead: "LOL, no."

I am not saying that the trial lead in this case isn't justified in wanting the most experienced, highest DPS they can get(they are)...everyone wants a smooth run after all. The reality though is that the whole attitude comes off as elitist and exclusionary. To be honest, its rather toxic and the reason that I rarely tank pug trials, because most of the time if you get into a pug trial group that falls apart, there is no attempt whatsoever to work together to overcome lower-than-ideal DPS...its just a toxic blame-slinging match because a few people int he group do great DPS and often think everyone in every single pug group should because they do. Its a stark contrast to dungeons....where people are far more willing to work together to overcome some handicap. As an average player needing to farm trials for meta-sets, the whole attitude makes it very unpleasant and discourages new players from getting involved. Do you know...the last new trial I actually tanked was vAS back when clockwork city came out? I am sure I am perfectly capable of tanking the new trials and would love to get some gear from them...but I dont want to deal with ^^^^. Its far easier for me to stick to less toxic 4-man content. I have plenty of friends...but its still much easier to get a group of non-toxic friends together for a 4-man run than for a 12-man run. I still tank all the older trials I am familiar with before end-game became such a toxic mess...but I have no need to mess with the new ones with the current mess it is.....and THAT is what the OP's post is about. Ridiculous expectations of gear/skill/experience/CP from people just starting out.

mairwen85

josiahva wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

I get the feeling meta doesn't mean wat you think it does. It's not just about damage. Regardless, the game gives a lot of freedom to play how you want, in such I don't understand the passive vitriol in your posts vs what you deem meta. It doesn't have to be a you vs them approach or mentality here--doing as you do with the group you do it with is great, why does that have to be reported out in a manner of veiled attack? [snip]

[edited for baiting]

I think you(and others) are misunderstanding what the OP is trying to say here. I am going to go out on a limb and say English is not their first language, so a lot is lost in translation. Anyone who has ever pugged trials in Craglorn(or attempted to) has seen this:

Trial Lead: "looking for 4 DPS for vHRC"(or whatever other trial of your choice)
Trial Seeker: /whisper "I'll DPS it"
Trial Lead: "Do you have clear?"
Trial Seeker: "No."
Trial Lead: "What is your CP level?"
Trial Seeker: "300CP"
Trial Lead: "LOL, no."

I am not saying that the trial lead in this case isn't justified in wanting the most experienced, highest DPS they can get(they are)...everyone wants a smooth run after all. The reality though is that the whole attitude comes off as elitist and exclusionary. To be honest, its rather toxic and the reason that I rarely tank pug trials, because most of the time if you get into a pug trial group that falls apart, there is no attempt whatsoever to work together to overcome lower-than-ideal DPS...its just a toxic blame-slinging match because a few people int he group do great DPS and often think everyone in every single pug group should because they do. Its a stark contrast to dungeons....where people are far more willing to work together to overcome some handicap. As an average player needing to farm trials for meta-sets, the whole attitude makes it very unpleasant and discourages new players from getting involved. Do you know...the last new trial I actually tanked was vAS back when clockwork city came out? I am sure I am perfectly capable of tanking the new trials and would love to get some gear from them...but I dont want to deal with ^^^^. Its far easier for me to stick to less toxic 4-man content. I have plenty of friends...but its still much easier to get a group of non-toxic friends together for a 4-man run than for a 12-man run. I still tank all the older trials I am familiar with before end-game became such a toxic mess...but I have no need to mess with the new ones with the current mess it is.....and THAT is what the OP's post is about. Ridiculous expectations of gear/skill/experience/CP from people just starting out.

OP was not pugging; I get what you're saying, and I know that zone callouts have unrealistic expectations for pugs, but let's not pretend that OP is demonstrating what a group of total randoms can achieve. The reality is that (as stated by others) any group composition can clear depending on the skill of its members and group cohesion. What OP riles against in their post, meta composed groups, are optimally composed for efficiency and high scoring clears. The fact that crag callers don't understand that distinction is another matter and if OP wants to address that, they should change the wording of their posts and the angle they approach the subject from.

AyaDark

colossalvoids wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

Hi.
And it is me again.
[snip]

Because it always is like:
-I need some gear? Can i go in raid with you ?
-Make necromancer 810+ and we will think about it.
-But i want to play my templar.
-No necro no sets | do not care.

---

[snip]
-Man i really need some sets.
-Lets get some! You can take your friends with you.
-But they are all low level ?
-Who cares.

Tank 380+, some 180+ DDs and heals and some 810+ players to help tham.

https://youtu.be/4qme8unsTd4

More like this here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/549000/how-many-of-us-can-you-handle-vso#latest

[edited for baiting]

That is pretty awesome.

Most vSS trials I have seen the minimun requirements are

dd: 45k dps
healer: Olo, Hollow, and two other dps sets I forget for debuff
Tank: Alkosh, Ebon, PA, Yolna

810cp + show achievement

It's extremely rigid

This is basicly show the bird to all that, showing it can be done.

That's for farm runs, people want to get in comfortably and be done quickly. If you want an actual progression through the trials I'd say better find a specialised guild for that as it's not what most people in raiding guids up for.

Everyone knows you don't need much cp or exceptional gear for a completion, but you should find people on the same page as yours and manage expectations to not be like OP blaming people left and right.

Unfortunatly not.
I see to much clans and raids try to gather people to some trials and even fail there.
They try to gather 40+ dps 810+ dds, try to use meta in it and it do not work.

Meta really is for fast runs of some kind like: 10- minutes vAA
Yes it is good for it. It will be always faster than not meta, becouse only 1 reason to meta is make it faster with pro group.

But not meta of the same group will be 11 minutes.

People do not understand it, they copy alcast and say thingth like: you are not meta? We wil not take it It really already is descrimination like this.

-You even can do more dps then another meta guy but he is meta, and you are not. We will not take you.
-What ???

People now really that strange and really think so.

They think, that if they take alcasts meta builds it will work for there party.

But meta do not work, they fail !
Fail to pass vSS with full 810+ 40k+ dps.
Because meta is for reason - dps before mechaniks starts
And it is bad thing, becouse in some conditions, they can not do it.

Tanks in paper like builds can not sustain that damage for such long and partys fail.

But RL try to do something like - put your life on meta and more dps - we need more dps to the meta god of dps and ... the same results for years.

Meta do not work !!! if you have not got enough dps to sceap mechaniks.
Tank will not sustain 3-4-5 amolgams = bb raid.

Why do they do it ?They try to copy some fast run builds they see. No understanding why that buildsdo so.

In each party now you can see - "I play meta, why do not you play it ?
I have 500 dps more, now i will say anyone in the group what to do, with no game understanding." Even if another dd is in war machine they will say something like - your dps is lower then mine ... tratata I am the best

Oh my god,annoying. So they start to make raid even harder for those, who know what to do.

Once i was in AS, party of 12 can not do it. Becouse of that reason. Then they live, do you know what we do then, it was 4 of us left ?

We just close it our self, with 4 of us in the party. Just 4, but we can not do it in party of us + 8 more becouse of this reasons.

Look on another raids, small guilds, partys.
The same is in a lot of places.

One guild say: to pass vSS group of 810 people must try 4-5 month.

It do not work like that !

And the fail reason is always the same.

karekiz

Some people are giving OP issues. Honestly.

At least he put his money where his mouth was, and made a group to do it. Usually the conversation goes like this:

"All the guilds I join require: X, and I don't want to play X! You can do without X!"
Response:
"Well you can form you own group/trial with your own set of requirements or lack of requirements. Anyone can."
....
"Nooooo! I just want to tell OTHER raid leads how to run THEIR raid. Doing all that nasty work stuff is a little daunting for me, but surely other people who went through it all will just change their entire team to my will!"

If anything the thread title is a little baity. Just glancing there really isn't a TON of low CP there. I think my min I set is literally 300 CP for it even if pug from craglorn.

AyaDark

karekiz wrote: »

Some people are giving OP issues. Honestly.

At least he put his money where his mouth was, and made a group to do it. Usually the conversation goes like this:

"All the guilds I join require: X, and I don't want to play X! You can do without X!"
Response:
"Well you can form you own group/trial with your own set of requirements or lack of requirements. Anyone can."
....
"Nooooo! I just want to tell OTHER raid leads how to run THEIR raid. Doing all that nasty work stuff is a little daunting for me, but surely other people who went through it all will just change their entire team to my will!"

If anything the thread title is a little baity. Just glancing there really isn't a TON of low CP there. I think my min I set is literally 300 CP for it even if pug from craglorn.

-And i did so it is an example, do you know what i hear ?
- Why do not you play meta?

Hahahaha - and i understand your way of thinking. Some raids really wants that for a reason. But some do not

As example party with tank in alcosh and no option to proc it no synergys ))

That is what about i am talking.

All must be for some reason is it not?