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Request for a second under-level-50 campaign
HumbleThaumaturge
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Currently, the under-level50 campaign is dominated by "professional players" who play this campaign week after week, every week. Such players have superb gear (perhaps changing purple- or even gold-level gear every 2 levels) and, more importantly, they have maybe thousands of hours of experience with target dummies and PvP and dueling. I am not criticizing them or suggesting they don't have a right to play as they wish. So please don't make any comments for or against this practice. Their right to play is not the subject of this post. And please don't suggest that all players simply hit level 50 as fast as possible and avoid this campaign, because it is very beneficial to have an under-level-50 campaign for new players or new characters.
I would simply like a new (second) under-level-50 campaign, with the current campaign remaining just they way it is right now. The second campaign could be designed to allow new or casual players a better environment to learn PvP and associated combat, without getting slaughtered by "Professional Players." I have seen countless new players give up on PvP because of the current environment in the under-level-50 campaign.
I would like two things:
(1) Very low caps on Character Stats, such that superb equipment won't give excessive stats. Perhaps make the Character Stats equal to no more than is achievable via Green Level gear dropped in Cyrodiil (including the Rewards for the Worthy). Examples, maybe a cap of 1k on spell and weapon damage, and a cap of 10k on health, magicka, stamina, and physical & spell resistance. The "Professional Players" have such high stats (due to equipment), that new players don't stand a chance.
(2) Add a "faction lock" to this second campaign so players cannot swap factions during the 7-day campaign. I have seen "professional players" play all 3 factions in the same day, going wherever they can make the most AP from killing enemy players. It really makes the Campaign scores meaningless when this faction swapping is allowed.
As I said, keep the current under-level-50 campaign just the way it is: but create a second under-level-50 campaign for the new player, where there is no advantage (due to Caps) to having great gear.
I would simply like a new (second) under-level-50 campaign, with the current campaign remaining just they way it is right now. The second campaign could be designed to allow new or casual players a better environment to learn PvP and associated combat, without getting slaughtered by "Professional Players." I have seen countless new players give up on PvP because of the current environment in the under-level-50 campaign.
I would like two things:
(1) Very low caps on Character Stats, such that superb equipment won't give excessive stats. Perhaps make the Character Stats equal to no more than is achievable via Green Level gear dropped in Cyrodiil (including the Rewards for the Worthy). Examples, maybe a cap of 1k on spell and weapon damage, and a cap of 10k on health, magicka, stamina, and physical & spell resistance. The "Professional Players" have such high stats (due to equipment), that new players don't stand a chance.
(2) Add a "faction lock" to this second campaign so players cannot swap factions during the 7-day campaign. I have seen "professional players" play all 3 factions in the same day, going wherever they can make the most AP from killing enemy players. It really makes the Campaign scores meaningless when this faction swapping is allowed.
As I said, keep the current under-level-50 campaign just the way it is: but create a second under-level-50 campaign for the new player, where there is no advantage (due to Caps) to having great gear.
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deleted221106-002999✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Add an under 50th level imperial city, too for fun levelling again; kind of sucks to get mugged by a fully-equipped vet while running around in your picked-up trash at 12th level.
Doubt either will come to be but worth a request.
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Add an under 50th level imperial city, too for fun levelling again; kind of sucks to get mugged by a fully-equipped vet while running around in your picked-up trash at 12th level.
Doubt either will come to be but worth a request.
With ZOS requiring Imperial City for Midyear Mayhem tickets and effectively requiring it for IC for players under level 45, a below 50 IC campaign is a much needed option, IMO.9 -
TelinthSoul ShrivenVaranisArano wrote: »Add an under 50th level imperial city, too for fun levelling again; kind of sucks to get mugged by a fully-equipped vet while running around in your picked-up trash at 12th level.
Doubt either will come to be but worth a request.
With ZOS requiring Imperial City for Midyear Mayhem tickets and effectively requiring it for IC for players under level 45, a below 50 IC campaign is a much needed option, IMO.
Lol there used to be one. I miss it, I wish it would come but but i feel that it never will
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Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It would be better to enforce leagues where you cannot be matched in any way with someone whose rating is too low.
Yes, even in open world PvP. But that would probably require too many instances of open world PvP, so completely shutting down open world PvP would also be better since leagues are better handled in battlegrounds.
And it would remove a lot of exploits and win-trading cheats like AP boosting.
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E-Zekiel✭✭✭Honestly, set bonuses (boss sets, at least) should probably be disabled in this campaign.
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Ryath_Waylander✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Well, there is still some clarity required on exactly how crafting on the new sticker book system will work but... it's a scary thought that you may be able to get a level 15 toon to learn your favourite gear trait to craft a lvl 14 monster helm.Edited by Ryath_Waylander on October 12, 2020 7:40AM1 -
Iselin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ryath_Waylander wrote: »
Well, there is still some clarity required on exactly how crafting on the new sticker book system will work but... it's a scary thought that you may be able to get a level 15 toon to learn your favourite gear trait to craft a lvl 14 monster helm.
That's not how it works on the PTS. They can only be crafted 50+.1 -
cyberjanet✭✭✭✭✭
Well, there is still some clarity required on exactly how crafting on the new sticker book system will work but... it's a scary thought that you may be able to get a level 15 toon to learn your favourite gear trait to craft a lvl 14 monster helm.[/quote]
What I've seen on the PTS is that it binds at CP160 and reconstructs at CP160 only. Even if you pick up a level 14 item.
I have noticed that the good PvP players in my guild always make new characters to play under-50 a lot, so I agree it's probably filled with experts. I'd like to recommend you try playing on the no-CP server, even if you are under level 50. There are a lot more ordinary people there.
Favourite NPC: Wine-For-All
Mostly PC-EU , with a lonely little guy on NA.1 -
Miswar✭✭✭✭✭Nothing to stop crafting some valid under 50 level gear?
In the end it still all about learning to play. Why would anything need to easy?
Give it time and you will get better at it. Simple as that instead of complaining the lack of skills to play the game.
There are so many threads similar about nerf that and this just because you simply plainly suck at the game.1 -
Athrys5✭✭✭[Quoted post was removed]
I dont even play this compaign, however that's a very toxic attitude towards newbies tbh.
Just imagine a lv 30 newbie running some random green lv 14 equip tryna learn pvp mechanics literally getting melted by a good player with almost min maxed gear.
We've all been through the process of learning pvp and honestly introducing a new campaign for newbies isnt a bad idea. On the other tho a campaign like that would be barely filled and not facing good player doesnt help improving that much.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on October 13, 2020 12:28PMEU - PC
Athryss6 -
RodneyRegis✭✭✭✭✭Nothing to stop crafting some valid under 50 level gear?
In the end it still all about learning to play. Why would anything need to easy?
Give it time and you will get better at it. Simple as that instead of complaining the lack of skills to play the game.
There are so many threads similar about nerf that and this just because you simply plainly suck at the game.
You're SUPPOSED to suck at the game at <50.
It's pathetic to exploit balancing and run <50 in OP gear.9 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭edges_endgame wrote: »
If you are inexperienced and wearing random things, then even I can run over you and I suck at PvP.RodneyRegis wrote: »Nothing to stop crafting some valid under 50 level gear?
In the end it still all about learning to play. Why would anything need to easy?
Give it time and you will get better at it. Simple as that instead of complaining the lack of skills to play the game.
There are so many threads similar about nerf that and this just because you simply plainly suck at the game.
You're SUPPOSED to suck at the game at <50.
It's pathetic to exploit balancing and run <50 in OP gear.
That is not the case though. I've run into new player that were under level 50 in the group finder and they knew what they were doing.
If you are interested in PvP below level 50, it's not hard to get a set of gear crafted by someone if you don't have the crafting skills.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on October 13, 2020 12:28PMThe Moot Councillor2 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nothing to stop crafting some valid under 50 level gear?
In the end it still all about learning to play. Why would anything need to easy?
Give it time and you will get better at it. Simple as that instead of complaining the lack of skills to play the game.
There are so many threads similar about nerf that and this just because you simply plainly suck at the game.
Kinda hard to git gud for a new player who is CONSTANTLY getting killed by better players in better gear that should not be playing in the starting campaign don't cha think?
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway4 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭cyberjanet wrote: »Well, there is still some clarity required on exactly how crafting on the new sticker book system will work but... it's a scary thought that you may be able to get a level 15 toon to learn your favourite gear trait to craft a lvl 14 monster helm.
What I've seen on the PTS is that it binds at CP160 and reconstructs at CP160 only. Even if you pick up a level 14 item.
I have noticed that the good PvP players in my guild always make new characters to play under-50 a lot, so I agree it's probably filled with experts. I'd like to recommend you try playing on the no-CP server, even if you are under level 50. There are a lot more ordinary people there.
[/quote]
Reconstruct don't let you make monster sets, perfected gear from trials or arena weapons below cp 160.
However you can buy monster sets from the golden on an low level and let them buy shoulders from the questgivers.
You can also do nMA and the other arenas with an low level but you need an group for this.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ugh, ZOS is requiring Imperial City dailies for a Midyear Mayhem ticket again.
ZOS, come on, don't make new, sub-50 players compete against players in CP 160 proc sets in the No CP IC campaigns again.
You don't allow that sort of uneven competition in Battlegrounds, so don't allow it in Imperial City.2 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Ugh, ZOS is requiring Imperial City dailies for a Midyear Mayhem ticket again.
ZOS, come on, don't make new, sub-50 players compete against players in CP 160 proc sets in the No CP IC campaigns again.
You don't allow that sort of uneven competition in Battlegrounds, so don't allow it in Imperial City.
You're correct, @VaranisArano.
At the very least, ZOS could prohibit CP-capped players from entering under-50 PvP ... although I'd argue for the bar to be much lower (such as CP300 being the cutoff).1 -
HumbleThaumaturge✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Ugh, ZOS is requiring Imperial City dailies for a Midyear Mayhem ticket again.
ZOS, come on, don't make new, sub-50 players compete against players in CP 160 proc sets in the No CP IC campaigns again.
You don't allow that sort of uneven competition in Battlegrounds, so don't allow it in Imperial City.
You're correct, @VaranisArano.
At the very least, ZOS could prohibit CP-capped players from entering under-50 PvP ... although I'd argue for the bar to be much lower (such as CP300 being the cutoff).
Having a CP exclusion won't work, because these players simply create a new account (or accounts) where characters never go over level 49. Some of these players have multiple accounts, just to play the under-level-50 campaign. They simply supply equipment and gold to the characters on their under-level-50 PvP account(s) from their main account. That's why I think the only solution is to have very severe Caps on Character Stats. Again, I am recommending this only for second (new) under-level-50 campaign; I am recommending no changes to the current under-level-50 campaign.1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nothing to stop crafting some valid under 50 level gear?
In the end it still all about learning to play. Why would anything need to easy?
Give it time and you will get better at it. Simple as that instead of complaining the lack of skills to play the game.
There are so many threads similar about nerf that and this just because you simply plainly suck at the game.
Kinda hard to git gud for a new player who is CONSTANTLY getting killed by better players in better gear that should not be playing in the starting campaign don't cha think?
That is exactly how you get good. Or join a guild and practice against players with guidance. Or both.The Moot Councillor2 -
HumbleThaumaturge✭✭✭✭When I started martial arts training at the age of nine from a 10th dan black belt, he did not throw me into a tournament with adult black belts and say "get good." He had brown belts and lower black belts teach the kids, then he had the kids practice with other kids. From time to time, we little ones would practice with a black belt, but he was in teaching mode, not trying to wipe the floor with us.
If the original purpose of the under-level-50 campaign was to provide a similar learning environment for newer players in PvP, then the campaign is currently not serving that purpose. The professional players dominate this campaign. Combat between a new player and a professional player can be like combat between a 9-year-old white belt and a fully-grown adult black belt. It's not a good environment in which the new player can "get good" when one professional player can kill half a dozen new players in 15 seconds. Or when a dozen new players attack a professional player and his Health bar barely moves.
As I said in my original post, I am not criticizing the professional players. Keep the current campaign just the way it is for them. I am simply asking for a second campaign where everybody has their Character Stats capped very low such that new players aren't at such a huge disadvantage. If the professional players still play such a campaign, they will still win, but maybe the new players will not get discouraged so much. Maybe they will stay alive long enough to "get good."4 -
Xologamer✭✭✭✭HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »When I started martial arts training at the age of nine from a 10th dan black belt, he did not throw me into a tournament with adult black belts and say "get good." He had brown belts and lower black belts teach the kids, then he had the kids practice with other kids. From time to time, we little ones would practice with a black belt, but he was in teaching mode, not trying to wipe the floor with us.
If the original purpose of the under-level-50 campaign was to provide a similar learning environment for newer players in PvP, then the campaign is currently not serving that purpose. The professional players dominate this campaign. Combat between a new player and a professional player can be like combat between a 9-year-old white belt and a fully-grown adult black belt. It's not a good environment in which the new player can "get good" when one professional player can kill half a dozen new players in 15 seconds. Or when a dozen new players attack a professional player and his Health bar barely moves.
As I said in my original post, I am not criticizing the professional players. Keep the current campaign just the way it is for them. I am simply asking for a second campaign where everybody has their Character Stats capped very low such that new players aren't at such a huge disadvantage. If the professional players still play such a campaign, they will still win, but maybe the new players will not get discouraged so much. Maybe they will stay alive long enough to "get good."
sure but the other way works to - if u get killed multiple time by 1 expierecend person u will probalply change ur gear/tactic next time until u eventually beat him (thats how i learnd pvp)2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Might I point out the OP has been around the forums for well over three years? I would suggest that someone who has been around for over three years is not a new player.
I would strongly suggest such a player has no business in a campaign designed to exclude players that have been around long enough to learn this game well. It would utterly defeat the purpose of what OP is asking for and make this entire idea pointless.
Oh, BTW, PC NA Sub-50 AD has 2 bars, the other two campaigns only mustered one bar each and this is the heart of prime time on that server. Just not enough interest to split them into two campaigns.
Edit: I suggest the current design works well players require resistance in PvP to improve Putting them up against lesser experienced players only means they will be up for an extremely rude awakening when they are no longer new enough for this special campaign. PvP was never intended to be casual.Edited by idk on October 13, 2020 1:36AM2 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »Taleof2Cities wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Ugh, ZOS is requiring Imperial City dailies for a Midyear Mayhem ticket again.
ZOS, come on, don't make new, sub-50 players compete against players in CP 160 proc sets in the No CP IC campaigns again.
You don't allow that sort of uneven competition in Battlegrounds, so don't allow it in Imperial City.
You're correct, @VaranisArano.
At the very least, ZOS could prohibit CP-capped players from entering under-50 PvP ... although I'd argue for the bar to be much lower (such as CP300 being the cutoff).
Having a CP exclusion won't work, because these players simply create a new account (or accounts) where characters never go over level 49. Some of these players have multiple accounts, just to play the under-level-50 campaign. They simply supply equipment and gold to the characters on their under-level-50 PvP account(s) from their main account. That's why I think the only solution is to have very severe Caps on Character Stats. Again, I am recommending this only for second (new) under-level-50 campaign; I am recommending no changes to the current under-level-50 campaign.
I really doubt were talking about a large playerbase that falls under this category, @HumbleThaumaturge.
Most of the professional players in the under-50 campaign are so bullheaded they would never overspend on the game unless it was life or death.0 -
HumbleThaumaturge✭✭✭✭I really doubt were talking about a large playerbase that falls under this category, @HumbleThaumaturge.
Most of the professional players in the under-50 campaign are so bullheaded they would never overspend on the game unless it was life or death.
I agree that the player-base is not large: perhaps only three or four dozen or so professional players rule this campaign? I don't know how many new players would play the proposed second campaign. On further thought: Probably too few to warrant the cost. So it's probably not a practical option.
However, I disagree about how much real-money these players are willing to spend. Some of these professional players often create a new character weekly, then spend money at the Crown Store for riding lessons in Speed (3000 Crowns for 30 on Speed). They might even buy skyshard skill points and completed skill trees. A new (basic) account is only 8 dollars on sale, a trivial cost to these guys. I know of one AD player who has at least 5 accounts. Most of these guys have sets of gear that they reuse with each new character, upgrading gear every two levels from level 10. This gear is Purple quality at minimum, but is sometimes gold quality. This just illustrates their "enthusiasm." They will definitely overspend.
As I said, keep the current campaign just the way it is, let them go on playing however they wish. Just create a second campaign that provides an option for a potentially better learning environment for new players.1 -
HumbleThaumaturge✭✭✭✭Might I point out the OP has been around the forums for well over three years? I would suggest that someone who has been around for over three years is not a new player.
I did not make the original post on behalf of my own playing. I made it on behalf of new players, including a younger sibling of mine who played the game (and PvP) for the first time recently.
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Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Add an under 50th level imperial city, too for fun levelling again; kind of sucks to get mugged by a fully-equipped vet while running around in your picked-up trash at 12th level.
Doubt either will come to be but worth a request.
With ZOS requiring Imperial City for Midyear Mayhem tickets and effectively requiring it for IC for players under level 45, a below 50 IC campaign is a much needed option, IMO.
Lol there used to be one. I miss it, I wish it would come but but i feel that it never will
It was a dead place even during IC events.1 -
Artorias24✭✭✭✭✭
✭I do understand your problem but splitting an already really low populated campaign (at least in PC EU) isnt going to help you improve your pvp skills when you cant find anyone to fight.
If you want to learn PvP try BGs, i think there is also a below 50 Queue. Or get a friend for some duels and test what works for you.1
