Urgent PVP Necro Nerf incoming

WoppaBoem
WoppaBoem
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With the new minor and major buffs/debuffs its time to bring some nerfs to Nerco healing and tankiness.

Spirit mender 10% dmg outside of buff system. This equals major protection. There should not be a skill that gives major protection a seperate version that can be stacked with another major protection source, that heals and give 200 recovery stam and mag. Please address this to a maximum of 5% less is more the skill is good even without the protection buff.

The passive when negative effect 8% plus healing. This is minor mending now half of major mending in the new system granted passively in PVP 90%+ uptime. This again such a strong passive much more stronger in the new buff/debuff system.

I guess some other classes are also getting out of balance due to these changes but these where to me very obvious. Please address ZOS.
Edited by WoppaBoem on October 10, 2020 9:54AM
Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only
  • MentalxHammer
    MentalxHammer
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    It is apparent that spirit mender needs a nerf. The mitigation is out of control, especially compared to the other sources of mitigation next patch after the rework to the buff system.

    Additionally, the nerf to defile is a good step to balancing the class; however, if you observe the damage tooltip of blastbones, it is the same EXACT value as dawnbreaker of smiting, an ultimate. The fact that blastbones is coded with the same exact base damage as dawnbreaker is ludicrous, whoever thought this was ok should be fired. Blastbones needs to have the damage tooltip adjusted to equal wardens scorch. This change seems like a no brainers for balance.
  • ecru
    ecru
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    It is apparent that spirit mender needs a nerf. The mitigation is out of control, especially compared to the other sources of mitigation next patch after the rework to the buff system.

    Additionally, the nerf to defile is a good step to balancing the class; however, if you observe the damage tooltip of blastbones, it is the same EXACT value as dawnbreaker of smiting, an ultimate. The fact that blastbones is coded with the same exact base damage as dawnbreaker is ludicrous, whoever thought this was ok should be fired. Blastbones needs to have the damage tooltip adjusted to equal wardens scorch. This change seems like a no brainers for balance.

    the tooltips for blastbones and shalks are almost exactly the same, the damage is fine, it's mainly the defile and mitigation that leads to stamcro being OP. with the defile going down to 10% they won't be playing on easy mode anymore.
    Gryphon Heart
    Godslayer
    Dawnbringer
  • WoppaBoem
    WoppaBoem
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    ecru wrote: »
    It is apparent that spirit mender needs a nerf. The mitigation is out of control, especially compared to the other sources of mitigation next patch after the rework to the buff system.

    Additionally, the nerf to defile is a good step to balancing the class; however, if you observe the damage tooltip of blastbones, it is the same EXACT value as dawnbreaker of smiting, an ultimate. The fact that blastbones is coded with the same exact base damage as dawnbreaker is ludicrous, whoever thought this was ok should be fired. Blastbones needs to have the damage tooltip adjusted to equal wardens scorch. This change seems like a no brainers for balance.

    the tooltips for blastbones and shalks are almost exactly the same, the damage is fine, it's mainly the defile and mitigation that leads to stamcro being OP. with the defile going down to 10% they won't be playing on easy mode anymore.

    The difference in dmg of shalks and ultimates like DB and Unslaught is over 10% while blastbones is equal. It makes no sense Necro can dish out the dmg of a ultimate every couply second that is cheap, target in AOE. Its not good coding very pay to win. But yes the spirit mender needs adjustment this patch if the minor major buffs value go live as is on PTS.
    Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only
  • Ariades_swe
    Ariades_swe
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    WoppaBoem wrote: »
    ecru wrote: »
    It is apparent that spirit mender needs a nerf. The mitigation is out of control, especially compared to the other sources of mitigation next patch after the rework to the buff system.

    Additionally, the nerf to defile is a good step to balancing the class; however, if you observe the damage tooltip of blastbones, it is the same EXACT value as dawnbreaker of smiting, an ultimate. The fact that blastbones is coded with the same exact base damage as dawnbreaker is ludicrous, whoever thought this was ok should be fired. Blastbones needs to have the damage tooltip adjusted to equal wardens scorch. This change seems like a no brainers for balance.

    the tooltips for blastbones and shalks are almost exactly the same, the damage is fine, it's mainly the defile and mitigation that leads to stamcro being OP. with the defile going down to 10% they won't be playing on easy mode anymore.

    The difference in dmg of shalks and ultimates like DB and Unslaught is over 10% while blastbones is equal. It makes no sense Necro can dish out the dmg of a ultimate every couply second that is cheap, target in AOE. Its not good coding very pay to win. But yes the spirit mender needs adjustment this patch if the minor major buffs value go live as is on PTS.

    Warden is in dire need of nerfs too.
    Way too much tankiness and healing for the damage they can put out.
    The passive that gives them armor for each ice skill coupled with their armorbuff that gives them minor protection and their heal based on hp that also stuns is over the top even on pts.
    New shalks gonna be a buff too, just wait and see.
    There's no point playing any other stamina class than stamnb, stamden or stamcro atm.
    Edited by Ariades_swe on October 10, 2020 11:59AM
  • Skander
    Skander
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    They won't. It's the p2w class


    (which is ironic since the magicka variant of necro kinda sucks, as every magicka variant of every class a part from sorc i guess)
    I meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
    -Elder Nightblades Online
    Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations
  • hexentb16_ESO
    hexentb16_ESO
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    They gunna nerf dragon knights too then? They're just as tanky.
  • Swomp23
    Swomp23
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    They gunna nerf dragon knights too then? They're just as tanky.

    I play both a stamdk and a stamcro. DKs hit like wet noodles. Their tankiness is their only upside.

    Stamcro has a very strong delayed skill allowing them to burst enemies down. Like stamden, magsorc and templars, even though potl isnt very good anymore apparently.
    XBox One - NA
  • ImSoPro
    ImSoPro
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    Nope leave necro mitigation and heals alone. Warden heals and mitigation have been ridiculous forever. Where’s that nerf? Major defile is already getting power bombed into the ground. That was the biggest complaint as far as stamcro. Although I’m sure stamcro will be fine still many stamcro mains will be complaining about that one when it goes live. Every class shouldn’t be exactly the same as the next class. That’s boring, some classes shine more in certain areas than others. The way ZOS is headed with these nerfs everyone is gonna be running around PVP getting 2 shot squishier than a jelly donut. Personally I’m a magcro main that runs all light so I need that extra healing power and mitigation.
  • Recapitated
    Recapitated
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    ImSoPro wrote: »
    Nope leave necro mitigation and heals alone. Warden heals and mitigation have been ridiculous forever. Where’s that nerf? Major defile is already getting power bombed into the ground. That was the biggest complaint as far as stamcro. Although I’m sure stamcro will be fine still many stamcro mains will be complaining about that one when it goes live. Every class shouldn’t be exactly the same as the next class. That’s boring, some classes shine more in certain areas than others. The way ZOS is headed with these nerfs everyone is gonna be running around PVP getting 2 shot squishier than a jelly donut. Personally I’m a magcro main that runs all light so I need that extra healing power and mitigation.

    Warden's survivability is being implicitly nerfed because major mending, minor protection, and major protection are getting cut.

    Necros aren't getting hit as hard by that because their mitigation is largely built into the class, not the maj/min buff system. I haven't thought about it long enough to be sure but you could argue they're losing the least defensively, making them even tankier relative to other classes next patch.

    Magcro needs a bone, but your heals are implicitly stronger because Resistant Flesh doesn't defile you as hard next patch. Even with that I wouldn't mind if the Mender mitigation scaled with max mag.
  • Atherakhia
    Atherakhia
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    It's hard to justify a lot of the complaints in this thread since the disparity between Mag Necro and Stam Necro in PvP is the size of the pacific ocean. One is often considered one of the most powerful specs in the game and the other is undisputably the absolute worst mag in existence. Considering both BB morphs do comparable damage and both use Spirit Mender, chances are neither of these are the issue.

    It's far more likely that Stamina in general need to be nerfed across the board, including 2handed and Destruction staff in general needs to see some sizeable improvements. Once that's done, maybe we can take a look at Necromancers and see if the class is a problem. I have a feeling it won't be.

    That said, I'd be fine with changing Mender to to provide the protection buff instead of a stacking 10% mitigation so long as it came with ENORMOUS improvements in the Necromancer's offensive toolkit because something needs to be done to make Magicka Necromancers viable and not the laughing stocks they are today.

    Edited by Atherakhia on October 10, 2020 11:27PM
  • Recapitated
    Recapitated
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    Atherakhia wrote: »
    It's far more likely that Stamina in general need to be nerfed across the board, including 2handed and Destruction staff in general needs to see some sizeable improvements. Once that's done, maybe we can take a look at Necromancers and see if the class is a problem. I have a feeling it won't be.

    It has to be a bit of both because playing stam by itself doesn't make a spec overpowered
  • olsborg
    olsborg
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    It is apparent that spirit mender needs a nerf. The mitigation is out of control, especially compared to the other sources of mitigation next patch after the rework to the buff system.
    The fact that blastbones is coded with the same exact base damage as dawnbreaker is ludicrous.

    Yes and yes!


    PC EU
    PvP only
  • Mojomonkeyman
    Mojomonkeyman
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    Have you guys ever played mag necro in pvp, smallscale or bgs? I guess the answer is: no. Mitigation ghost is one of the very few things in the kit that make the setup barely playable.

    Butchering the (already weak) magicka versions of classes by nerfing class skills to bring down the power budget of stamina specs is not the solution. [snip]

    [edited for baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_Lunar on October 14, 2020 12:08PM
    Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy
  • Hotdog_23
    Hotdog_23
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    The 10% mitigation on the ghost was honestly probably overlooked on ZOS part with the changes to the major/minor system. It definitely needs to be changed because if not you are basically give one class major protection 100% of the time.

    Be safe and have fun
  • techyeshic
    techyeshic
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    SNecro in PvP is amazingly strong yet at the same time, the least rhythmic class to play IMO. Every thing seems slow and labored, but you just win. I dislike mine and feel like people play it because of strength rather than it being enjoyable, and maybe thats why magicka feels so week. Stam getting nerfed feels like it will be like Magicka. The class is just poorly designed. Im trying to put my finger on it as why Warden feels better and has a full toolset as well. Think it has somethign to do with the animation time of blast bones, and how you can react with a burst heal over a tether to a corpse, and the defense in absorbing projectiles is also reactionary when you are taking range fire rather than having to keep the mender up.

    Not that this adds much to the discussion. Just my 2 penny on how I feel like the class will either be great or terrible depending on how they swing the hammer. NB has been like this since launch.
  • Inyhel
    Inyhel
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    Solo players shouldn't have to suffer because of pvp.
    Just buff other classes please and leave Necro alone.
  • Recapitated
    Recapitated
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    Inyhel wrote: »
    Solo players shouldn't have to suffer because of pvp.
    Just buff other classes please and leave Necro alone.

    PVP shouldn't have to suffer because of solo players either, and buffing everyone's tankiness wouldn't necessarily result in balance either. Then everybody would be too tanky.

    If Ring of the Pale Order remains the way it is on PTS this will be a non-issue for you anyway.
  • Mojomonkeyman
    Mojomonkeyman
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    I mean, you guys are not even thinking this through. Its a relative buff - the passive is not actually getting stronger compared to what it is.

    If we now consistently go for all the class % passive multipliers (because they all are getting "stronger" compared to minor/major ones), we wouldve to include healing and damage multis as well, since they are getting similar relative "buffs" and they are all stackable with minor/major multis.

    All those skills that give 2-3% healing or dmg per skill slotted, the sorc reversed execute passive, warden's healing bonuses not tied to major mending, etc... you get the point. All of those will look stronger on paper, just as ghost does. All of them would need to be brought down or redone to satisfy the forum crowd demanding consistency and fair nerfs for everyone.

    The only thing you guys will achieve with those crazy ideas is to take even more power off of ALL our classes. [snip]

    [edited for baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_Lunar on October 14, 2020 12:10PM
    Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy
  • YandereGirlfriend
    YandereGirlfriend
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    In this thread: tons of non-magRomancer players who either don't realize or don't care about how hard this would trash our class.

    We can't even get a working morph for our Blastbones so the idea that ZOS would throw us a bone (or, more accurately, a whole dang skeleton) in exchange for your desired nerfs is ludicrous.
  • MentalxHammer
    MentalxHammer
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    Why is everyone mentioning magnecro is weak? This is undoubtedly one of the best large scale specs, and I have had great success 1vxing on mine personally. The main issue people complained about before was the lack of CC, but there are several options for this now. Mag blastbones is flavorless, but the base tooltip is the same as dawnbreaker, so it's undeniably powerful.

    Many individuals in this thread have commented on magnecro being weak without citing any reasoning; I'd love to hear your logic behind these thoughts!
  • Integral1900
    Integral1900
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    How about this

    We necromancers will accept a nerf when either we get a class source of major sorcery/brutality and critical.... [snip]

    [edited for baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_Lunar on October 14, 2020 12:11PM
  • Thrasher91604
    Thrasher91604
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    Or a decent burst heal stam skill like shrooms.
  • WoppaBoem
    WoppaBoem
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    Funny how most of you see this as against and pro and we necromancer this. [snip] I play all classes some I prefer more than other and stamnecro is within the range I am comfortable playing small scale PVP.

    [snip] if major protection is going to be 10% the ghost cannot give 10% dmg mitigation simple as that.

    It overpreforms for some time now and with the new changes max 5% mitigation should be oke and would be very smart @Mojomonkeyman lol because we finally have not every player on stamnecro's anymore. If this goes live every pvp gamer will be on stamnecro's again don't want to see that go live please.

    [edited for baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_Lunar on October 14, 2020 12:12PM
    Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only
  • Ariades_swe
    Ariades_swe
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    WoppaBoem wrote: »
    Funny how most of you see this as against and pro and we necromancer this. [snip] I play all classes some I prefer more than other and stamnecro is within the range I am comfortable playing small scale PVP.

    [snip] if major protection is going to be 10% the ghost cannot give 10% dmg mitigation simple as that.

    It overpreforms for some time now and with the new changes max 5% mitigation should be oke and would be very smart @Mojomonkeyman lol because we finally have not every player on stamnecro's anymore. If this goes live every pvp gamer will be on stamnecro's again don't want to see that go live please.

    Yeah they should nerf it and they should also nerf the passive that gives a warden 2 percent extra damage per animalskill slotted now that they're nerfing minor and major berserk.
    They also need to nerf the health based warden heal it's too op and while we're at it they need to nerf the dk passive that gives them 12 percent extra healing since it gives them almost as much healing as the nerfed major mending.
    Stam nbs damage passives need to get nerfed too since they're too strong compared too the minor and major damagebuffs.
    Shade needs to be nerfed too cause all we gonna see now is elder stamden/stamnb online with the occasional carrysorc.
    [snip]

    [edited for baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_Lunar on October 14, 2020 12:13PM
  • LukosCreyden
    LukosCreyden
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    Magicka Necromancer does NOT need a nerf. It needs a buff.

    Please try and keep suggestions for rebalancing specifically for Stamcro.
    I mean, Magcro is already non-existent in pvp. It doesn't need to be kicked anymore, not whilst its already dead and buried.

    also, @MentalxHammer , having ONE good offensive skill for pvp does not make Magcro viable. You may be able to take out some potatoes, but anyone who knows how to move their character and press buttons can easily avoid pretty much everything else a Magcro can throw at them. A Magcro can be tanky, but it can't kill any competent players, as it doesn't have enough in its toolkit to line up good burst. Dots aren't the answer either, ever since they got nerfed. Our CC option is laughable too, as it is slow, weak, and its telegraph is so obvious the hands may as well be holding signs that say "avoid this!"
    If you're having fun with Magcro in pvp, that's great, but please don't try and say that it is good when the class is suffering in pvp.
    Edited by LukosCreyden on October 12, 2020 5:40PM
    Struggling to find a new class to call home.Please send help.
  • Xiomaro
    Xiomaro
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    Inyhel wrote: »
    Solo players shouldn't have to suffer because of pvp.
    Just buff other classes please and leave Necro alone.

    This kind of balancing is something that people always suggest but it causes a lot more problems than simply tuning down the outliers.

    Overwatch took the approach of buffing everything to deal with a very stale meta and the game ended up with some disgusting and horribly unfun power creep that took years to finally fix.

    MMOs are obviously a lot more complicated to balance because there are so many variables. This actually makes power creep even more of an issue. I mean, it's already an issue with how trivial most of the veteran PVE content is with a half-way decent build and max CP.
    PC EU No CP PVP
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    Ulric Longboi: Nord Stamden
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    Morga The Roarer Nord Stamcro
  • buttaface
    buttaface
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    Taking a severe overnerf of major protection as the basis for even more nerfs to start a nerf domino chain is not convincing.

    Stamcro isn't really that comparatively tanky to options, what it is 1) a class that can be made "tankish" while still having a very high damage 3 second recast ranged AOE aimbot... when it works; 2) an inexpensive health based purge that is also a cost reduction; 3) a powerful, free HOT that is very easy to refresh. That IMO is where balance issues, if any, lie, not the 10% protection on spirit, which is just a weak HOT otherwise.
  • FangOfTheTwoMoons
    FangOfTheTwoMoons
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    Welcome to Nightblade's world!

    The fact that they get Major and Minor Defile in one skill was always silly anyway.
  • Artim_X
    Artim_X
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    Say no to the homogenization of Tamriel! No more nerfs, only buffs!
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    • Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Pragmatic Fatecarver, Cephaliarch's Flail, Rune of Displacement, Inspired Scholarship/Evolving Runemend, and The Languid Eye.
    Eye of the King
    https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExOTAzdjV1eTgwbDFmM3lrZmxuMXRqdDR3Y3h1ZDRpajR0M3VjZzQ3NSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/zXmbOaTpbY6mA/giphy.gif
    • Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
    • Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on chest/head/legs and everything else Prismatic Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Prismatic Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both Swift with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Swift with Spell Damage Enchant).
    • Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Race Against Time, Rune of Uncanny Adoration, Evolving Runemend, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver.
    PvE Starter Gear
    https://media.giphy.com/media/6CovzgyTig7M4/giphy.gif
    • Gear: 5 Law of Julianos (heavy chest, gloves/belt light, and the rest can be light or 1 medium piece if you're not wearing medium anywhere else on your body. All in training if grinding for XP or divines), Armor of the Seducer or Magnus' Gift head, shoulder, and staves (light with 1 medium piece if you are not already wearing 1 medium Julianos piece. All in training or divines. The staves should be training or infused), and 3 purple Willpower Jewelry with Arcane trait (can be bought from trading guilds for relatively cheap.
    • Check tamrieltradecentre.com for the best deals if you're not using a price checking addon).
    Race
    https://media.giphy.com/media/sdEkeWpiaGz0A/giphy.gif
    • High elf, since you will not have issues with sustain, but other mag based races are also fine so this is more of a personal choice.
    Mundus Stones
    https://media.giphy.com/media/cT3wMhLGQWdKU/giphy.gif
    • PvP: The Steed for speed. Gotta go fast!
    • PvE Healing/Damage: The Thief for decent crit rate.
    • PvE Tanking: The Lady to get close to resistance cap.
    Current Champion Points
    https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGDAx6u3hthMhgI/giphy.gif
    • DPS: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Exploiter, Weapons Expert, Fighting Finesse, Master-at-Arms, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    • Healer Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Hope Infusion, Weapon's Expert, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    • Tanky Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Ironclad, Enduring Resolve, Reinforced, Duelist's Rebuff, Bastion, Ward Master, Rejuvenation, Fortified.
    • PvP Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, Occult Overload, Arcane Supremacy, Bastion, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    • PvP Temp/Arcanist: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, From the Brink, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    Favorite Foods and Potions
    https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoTggaYFNd1FdAI/giphy.gif
    • Parse Food for PvE:(DPS) Ghastly Eye Bowl (increases Max Magicka by 4592 and Magicka Recovery by 459 for 2 hours).
    • Gold/Purple Food for Sorc PvP and Meme Tanking:(PvP) Clockwork Citrus Filet (increases Max Health by 3326, Health Recovery by 406 [useful if stage 1 vampire], Max Magicka by 3080, and Magicka Recovery by 338 for 2 hours). Witchmother's Potent Brew (Increase Max Magicka by 2856, Max Health by 3094, and Magicka Recovery by 315 for 2 hours.
    • Trash Potions when feeling cheap: Regular CP150 Essence of Magicka pots that I obtain frequently from playing the game or Crown Tri-Restoration Potion obtained from dailies.
    • Crafted Potions: Essence of Spell Critical (Bugloss, Lady's Smock, and Water Hyacinth). Without magelight this is my primary means of obtaining Major Prophecy on my Sorc, which increases my Spell Critical Rating. This also heals and restores magicka. Essence of Immovability (Columbine, Corn Flower, and Wormwood). I use this in PvP, since this gives me stealth detection, knockback immunity, and restores magicka (better to use it when competent allies are nearby, since it might reveal that you are surrounded by multiple players in stealth and you will not have an emergency pot available after use). Essence of Invisibility with only 2 ingredients (Blue Entoloma, Namira's Rot, Nirnroot, or Spider Egg). I use this in PvE content that requires stealth and if I need more speed I'll use Rapid Maneuver before using the potion. Essence of Invisibility with 3 ingredients (Blessed Thistle, Blue Entoloma, and Namira's Rot). Very useful in PvP alongside the vampire Dark Stalker passive, since you'll be invisible, ignore movement speed penalty while in Crouch, and you'll have a 30% movement speed boost from Major Expedition (I always have this slotted when riding from point A to B in PvP land, since gankers are always lurking). My templar/arcanist will mostly use Essence of Health (Tri-Stat Potion) Ingredients: (Mountain Flower, Columbine, and Bugloss).
  • ZOS_Lunar
    ZOS_Lunar
    admin
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