Classes: 4th Skill Line?

Scion_of_Yggdrasil

What if...... instead of a new class, we entertain the idea of giving current classes a 4th skill line? This idea has been tossed around several times before.

And please spare us your performance and/or balance complaints, those things will always be an evolving issue, so there's no point in crying about the obvious. If all the people who complain about balance and performance were in charge of the moon launch, we never would have made it to the moon... This thread is supposed to be about IF, if things were done right, if performance was fine, if balance wasn't an issue... what skills do you think your favorite class should have?

I personally would like to see one skill line that highlights the other side of the spectrum for each class (the dark side, or light side, if you will). For example: Templars getting a Daedric skill line (as opposed to Aedric). Wardens getting a Necro-type skill line (dealing with the death of nature, as opposed to growth and life). Necromancers getting a Meridian skill line? Etc. Etc.

Or perhaps you would prefer another skill line that falls in line with their current genre? What are some things you would like to see? It can be specific skills you invented, or just a general idea of a skill line.

Atherakhia

Why?

This would just as easily be handled by simply adding a new guild or world line wouldn't it?

Similar problem with adding a class. What does this game even need anymore? What would a new class offer that's unique? The game isn't really lacking anything that's typically seen in other games. The most often request class is even a bard class, which would be quite a stretch for 3 additional class skill lines when they could easily add a bard's college guild.

As far as playstyle goes, the only thing that I've seen in other MMOs that ESO is 'missing' would be the combo style class like the DAoC Valewalker or GW2 Elementalist. But ESO's combat system doesn't lend itself to this.

Personally don't think this game needs either a new class or a new world/guild line. It needs the current classes to have an indepth, comprehensive overhaul to modernize them with where the game currently is and ZOS thinks it will be a year from now.

Firstmep

I wouldnt mind if my classes got some new toys to play with.

Since Psijic came out we havent had any new skills added to the game(apart from necromancer but thats an entire class)

Balance wise, though its unlikely.

universal_wrath

Or we can just make a 3rd morph of already exsiting skills. If a skill does damage for to morphs like japs for instnace, make a morph for tanking, healing or support. If a skill made for tanking like ice fortress, make a morph that makes it utility or offensive skill instead of being defensive.

I would prefer to start with class skills and move on to generic skills.

Another idea is to make skill altering weapons unlike present once. These new weapons would change how a specific skill works like pulse goes from being a single target skill to AOE sub assult like skill.

Taleof2Cities

@Scion_of_Yggdrasil; @universal_wrath --

Both of your ideas are good on paper from a player perspective.

However, from a ZOS perspective, I'm guessing they'd rather build skill lines in Chapter/DLC content.

Including new skill lines/morphs in the base game races provides no immediate reward for their efforts.

That's not to say they haven't done free things for players in the past (see the latest improvements for the Item Set Collection on PTS).

But, new skill lines are a major time sink ... so it makes a lot of sense to put these behind a paywall (from ZOS's point of view).

Recapitated

No, not while ZOS hasn't eaten what's on their plate as it were. Way too much about the three skill lines we have sees zero use.

JinMori

Anything that means progression i am pretty much in favor of, i care far more about meaningful progression than potential power creep.

Frankly, power creep is not an excuse to do nothing, if anything you should fix the power creep, by doing something that isn't nerfing and nerfing. But honestly, i don't trust these devs to do the best thing.

But the skilline should make sense for the class.

Stinkyremy

universal_wrath wrote: »

Or we can just make a 3rd morph of already exsiting skills. If a skill does damage for to morphs like japs for instnace, make a morph for tanking, healing or support. If a skill made for tanking like ice fortress, make a morph that makes it utility or offensive skill instead of being defensive.

I would prefer to start with class skills and move on to generic skills.

Another idea is to make skill altering weapons unlike present once. These new weapons would change how a specific skill works like pulse goes from being a single target skill to AOE sub assult like skill.

I agree with this. Each skill by default should have been an equal 50/50 morph. For eg, one class skill line for every class has each morph either magika or stamina. Second skill line, each morph does buffs or debuffs, third skill line, each morph heals or has group tools/synergies.
Something along those lines or a universal way of doing every class that made a more defined split between roles and stam or mag dps.
As the game is and always has been it's more of a mish mash or skills doing random stuff.

Deathlord92

3rd morph would be better imo but honestly I’d much rather a magic melee skill line added.

Cinbri

Imagine if leveling both morphs of skill would open you "ultimate" morph

TwinLamps

also 3rd weapon bar.
lets spice things up

Scion_of_Yggdrasil

TwinLamps wrote: »

also 3rd weapon bar.
lets spice things up

I've been asking for that for a while we can get rid of direction-pad-right to swap quests, and instead have it swap to a third bar.

Cinbri wrote: »

Imagine if leveling both morphs of skill would open you "ultimate" morph

I like that idea, and the general idea of have three morphs in general. In the past I've suggested making the missing stamina/magicka versions of existing skills. Some have morphs that go either way, while many still only exist as solely magicka or stamina. However, with the PTS changes that might not be necessary (light/heavy attacks scale with highest offensive resource).

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

@Scion_of_Yggdrasil; @universal_wrath --

Both of your ideas are good on paper from a player perspective.

However, from a ZOS perspective, I'm guessing they'd rather build skill lines in Chapter/DLC content.

Including new skill lines/morphs in the base game races provides no immediate reward for their efforts.

That's not to say they haven't done free things for players in the past (see the latest improvements for the Item Set Collection on PTS).

But, new skill lines are a major time sink ... so it makes a lot of sense to put these behind a paywall (from ZOS's point of view).

I get it, and I wouldn't oppose a new skill line locked behind DLC (bills need paid). What if a new zone offers a quest line where you learn how to unlock your full potential, thus unlocking this additional skill line, or more morphs?

Like many have been asking about for a long time, I would even be okay with a new weapon skill line (one-hand and rune!), and it can exclusively be available in a new zone. Anything is possible, its just a matter of doing it.

This game is getting old (long may it live)... you can only repaint the same thing so many times before it just starts to look like the same thing regardless. Adding any new skill line would keep things fresh! It would drive player activity up as well, in a natural, enjoyable way, unlike the way RNG punishes players and forces them to constantly repeat the same content. This would give players something to be excited about, a shiny new thing.

kathandira

I've mused over the idea of Cross Class skill lines.

It would be pretty cool to be able to take 1 Class Skill Line from another class of your choice.

I know it will NEVER happen, but it could be pretty cool.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil

kathandira wrote: »

I've mused over the idea of Cross Class skill lines.

It would be pretty cool to be able to take 1 Class Skill Line from another class of your choice.

I know it will NEVER happen, but it could be pretty cool.

This could easily be implemented, and profitable, by adding a new shrine only available in a new zone. Or maybe we discover the original sky....chunk? Where do these skySHARDS come from anyways? Perhaps a new zone can house the original crystal that these shards came from, and activating it opens a UI that allows you to select another classes skill line to unlock (just one).

kathandira

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

I've mused over the idea of Cross Class skill lines.

It would be pretty cool to be able to take 1 Class Skill Line from another class of your choice.

I know it will NEVER happen, but it could be pretty cool.

This could easily be implemented, and profitable, by adding a new shrine only available in a new zone. Or maybe we discover the original sky....chunk? Where do these skySHARDS come from anyways? Perhaps a new zone can house the original crystal that these shards came from, and activating it opens a UI that allows you to select another classes skill line to unlock (just one).

I would love that. The more i'm able to customize my character, the better.

Though this idea begs the question, why not just have classless builds like normal Elder Scrolls games.

Wolfchild07

Would rather just see spellcrafting finally get in the game with a Winterhold College DLC. They could add many different flavours of spells and even have them apply as subclass skills, depending on the flavour (spell/element type) for the sake of class passives.

x48rph

While I'm all for more variety, a large portion of the skills we have now in classes, weapon, and guild lines go unused as it is because they are either garbage or have very, very niche uses. ZOS could easily revamp a bunch of these and it would feel like we got a 4th skill line.

Solariken

Atherakhia wrote: »

Why?

This would just as easily be handled by simply adding a new guild or world line wouldn't it?

Similar problem with adding a class. What does this game even need anymore? What would a new class offer that's unique? The game isn't really lacking anything that's typically seen in other games. The most often request class is even a bard class, which would be quite a stretch for 3 additional class skill lines when they could easily add a bard's college guild.

As far as playstyle goes, the only thing that I've seen in other MMOs that ESO is 'missing' would be the combo style class like the DAoC Valewalker or GW2 Elementalist. But ESO's combat system doesn't lend itself to this.

Personally don't think this game needs either a new class or a new world/guild line. It needs the current classes to have an indepth, comprehensive overhaul to modernize them with where the game currently is and ZOS thinks it will be a year from now.

Totally agree with this. While we're on the subject, I still feel ZOS owes us real skills in the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild lines.

Firstmep wrote: »

I wouldnt mind if my classes got some new toys to play with.

Since Psijic came out we havent had any new skills added to the game(apart from necromancer but thats an entire class)

Balance wise, though its unlikely.

What balance? [SNIP]

universal_wrath

TwinLamps wrote: »

also 3rd weapon bar.
lets spice things up

Power creep and imbalance. Sorcerer class used to have a third bar via overlaod before it was reworked. Sorcerer had every advantage over all classes in everything in both PvP and PvE. Now some classes already doing bad in either PvP or PvE, adding a 3rd bar would just widen fap even more and maoe these claases obsolete.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil

universal_wrath wrote: »

TwinLamps wrote: »

also 3rd weapon bar.
lets spice things up

Power creep and imbalance. Sorcerer class used to have a third bar via overlaod before it was reworked. Sorcerer had every advantage over all classes in everything in both PvP and PvE. Now some classes already doing bad in either PvP or PvE, adding a 3rd bar would just widen fap even more and maoe these claases obsolete.

Not necessarily, in fact it might put them more on par. Class balance is its own issue, but giving everyone 6 more slots to help with buff management and versatility would help level the playing field, instead of giving the advantage to classes better built to be self sufficient.

hexentb16_ESO

I'd like it if the 4th skill line added something new to each class.

Siphoning is cool and all but I'd like a dedicated healing skill line for Nightblades that has a burst heal.

Thats just the class I play the most. I'm sure the others could really use a specific type of skill line too.

hakan

3rd skill line and morphs are the way to go.

im sure they could do sth about it that makes them profit and us happy.

JinMori

hakan wrote: »

3rd skill line and morphs are the way to go.

im sure they could do sth about it that makes them profit and us happy.

They could do both in time.

I don't think they will though.

friimynd

it is standard for a game to just leave it's old content in the dust, including base characters
i do wonder how they justify the new experience though, but ESO fixes that by making new starting zones, not bad
something like DDO, it is exactly (basically) the same as it ever was, for the old characters, but there are new ones and new content and stuff
but... idk, maybe it's just nostalgia? leave it alone. A good example of that would be Cataclysm (wow). smh Blizzard later learned to just make new worlds, not fup the one they already have

Mesite

Funnily enough, I was just thinking to myself today: if this was Skyrim, my Sorcerer would be learning new skills, not sticking with the same spells all their life.

Warriors not so much - swing that sword and he's happy

Amottica

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

And please spare us your performance and/or balance complaints,

I would suggest not trying to quash dissent when trying to start a discussion. Both aspects mentioned above are fair game as it is something Zenimax has struggled with.

While I am not against adding more skill lines, adding six more skill lines is a lot of work. We will likely see a skill line available to all, such as the guild skill lines. It is not only easier to design but easier to balance.

Browiseth

this is certainly a better than idea than adding new classes but at the same time i think it would be better to add a new weapon type or universal skill line (like a new guild one)

Dracan_Fontom

Personally, I think it would be more interesting for classes to get additonal morphs and give them synergy with weapon as well. Logically, why can't a sorcerer with all this power over daedric and lightning not infuse that power into their weapons? Wouldn't it be interesting to have a Sorcerer call down a storm of lightning infused arrows from their bow? Or charge their sword to deliver something akin to a taser strike? I think giving classes unique abilities through their weapons would allow each each to finally feel unique and in control of their abilities.

Aquelarre

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

TwinLamps wrote: »

also 3rd weapon bar.
lets spice things up

I've been asking for that for a while we can get rid of direction-pad-right to swap quests, and instead have it swap to a third bar.

This!

Oakensoul only permits you to swap 2 bars. Without, you have 3 bars. You don’t want more slots for sets? Make “Main Bar” - “Alternative Bar” - “Back Bar”. Main and Alternative works in main weapon.

Oakensoul nerf solved.

Stx

This game desperately needs more skills to choose from. To those saying "no, balance what we have",

It's been 8 years with the same skills, they are never going to balance them. At least if got more skills to choose from we could have some fun.

They could add a 4th tree to the classes, they could add additional skill trees to the world, such as conjuration, destruction, alteration, or literally any of the classic elder scrolls skill lines. Even simple things like acrobatics or athletics... you can make a skill tree out of these that could have some fun and creative skills to add to any build.

Foxtrot39

You know what could be great?

Race skill line with an extra slot just for them (like companion ult) save for the ult

Beside visual and a gimmick + special passive there is little difference between each race save for the extremely rare race based flavoured dialogue option you can see on non repeatable quests so the game kinda sleep on this potential