PvP Tierlist for Stonethorn

Gorreck

x48rph wrote: »

IneedaDollar wrote: »

This is actually a nice thread.
A well crafted Tierlist from experienced players who know what they are doing.
Not some opinion based ***.
Thank you

Any such list by its very definition is opinion based. Which is why you have people who disagree. That being said I can't really argue with too much. I'd move a few up or down a little but nothing blatantly out of place that I'd bother arguing over

These particular lists are usually there or there abouts, whilst it is always possible to argue about the odd position, the sheer wealth of experience that goes into these tends to make them a pretty accurate representation of the actual Live situation (especially top and bottom).


I just hope someone at ZOE is paying attention, because the list pretty accurately reflects what people said would be the outcome from the last set of sweeping "balance" changes.

Shagreth

BohnT2 wrote: »

If we were to place WW somewhere on the list it would be really high.
They have insane pressure with the strongest dot in the game, access to major and minor defile from a single skill.
The strongest instant spammable and access to the most powerful HP scaling heal which is benefiting a lot from the current trend of having more than 30k HP.

For bigger groups they'd fall behind a bit but can still prove their strengths with AoE major defile and an instant AoE stun that also applies major fracture and sets people off balance.


However stamdk is tied with stamplar to be one of the worst classes to run WW as most passives don't benefit you while in WW form, this is more like a slight drawback rather than an actual deal breaker.

Thanks for the reply! I think I'm going to roll one. If you had to choose a class & race for the WW which one would it be? My guess for class is sorc, which would be unfortunate, when I think werewolf and the 'human' form behind it I don't think of someone with a robe and a staff, if you catch my drift, but I digress -- we're talking performance after all. Also, since you didn't mention vampires at all, I would assume they ain't any good for any class? Cheers once again, this actually pushes me to give PvP a try.

BohnT2

Shagreth wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

If we were to place WW somewhere on the list it would be really high.
They have insane pressure with the strongest dot in the game, access to major and minor defile from a single skill.
The strongest instant spammable and access to the most powerful HP scaling heal which is benefiting a lot from the current trend of having more than 30k HP.

For bigger groups they'd fall behind a bit but can still prove their strengths with AoE major defile and an instant AoE stun that also applies major fracture and sets people off balance.


However stamdk is tied with stamplar to be one of the worst classes to run WW as most passives don't benefit you while in WW form, this is more like a slight drawback rather than an actual deal breaker.

Thanks for the reply! I think I'm going to roll one. If you had to choose a class & race for the WW which one would it be? My guess for class is sorc, which would be unfortunate, when I think werewolf and the 'human' form behind it I don't think of someone with a robe and a staff, if you catch my drift, but I digress -- we're talking performance after all. Also, since you didn't mention vampires at all, I would assume they ain't any good for any class? Cheers once again, this actually pushes me to give PvP a try.

Nord, Orc, Bosmer and imperial are all great picks, redguard/dunmer also work but not as good as the ones above.

Sorc is a great pick for WW as some damage buffs carry over.


Vampire can't be really classified as a class as it simply is too weak.
A single damage skill, utility skills are mediocre and in general only 1-2 skills are really useable.

Many builds utilize the stage 3 vampire damage reduction however as it's incredibly powerful but no class really uses vamp abilities, there's some magnecros/ warden using eviscerate and the Vampire Lord ult sure adds loads of pressure and damage but it's still not considerable to be listed explicitly on this list

Shagreth

Cool, thanks once again! Now to find some template builds for sorc WW. Wish another class had synergy but alas.. :P

BohnT2

Shagreth wrote: »

Cool, thanks once again! Now to find some template builds for sorc WW. Wish another class had synergy but alas.. :P

the benefits you get from running sorcs are good but you're not reliant on being a sorc to make WW work, it's already really strong to begin with

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

The list looks great and well done, but like already said it is opinion based, skills are more important, i run a mag dk in pvp and kill on a reg bases the classes above me, the skills you use and how you move is more important

Firstmep

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

The list looks great and well done, but like already said it is opinion based, skills are more important, i run a mag dk in pvp and kill on a reg bases the classes above me, the skills you use and how you move is more important

This list doesnt mean that x player on x class is a better player or not. Its an objective overview of what each of the classes are capable of in the current meta.
Yes i can also hop on my templars and kill wardens and necros but aganist similarly skilled opponents you can tell if a class is weaker, period.

Urzigurumash

Recapitated wrote: »

I would guess stamDK has nothing over stamden when it comes to chaosball. Shimmering Shield beats wings, group major protection probably beats magma shell, both have major mending, warden has major expedition and a purge. The DK would be dead once afflicted with proc sets.

On a pure defensive spec, a DK can achieve a greater level of selfish defense and ~90% of the mobility as a Warden with less skills slotted and less GCDs - I'm pretty sure - and that extra 10% mobility I'm giving to the Warden just because of the Snare Resistance, whereas DK has a Snare attached to its Class DOTs, which balances this out a bit. The two are close enough it comes down to personal preference, I think. Really StamDen, StamSorc, and StamDK are all S Tier Running Backs, but since StamDen and StamSorc are better for offensive specs, overall they are better classes for BGs, I can agree on this. I can't remember a time when StamDK wasn't consistently the least represented among #1 Scores in Death Match in matches of all experienced players.

At some point, I guess we're having a different discussion about PvP vs PvLeader Board Position. The latter, in my view, puts StamDK at S Tier for 2/3 BG leaderboards, and MagCro and MagBlade at S Tier for Solo CP Cyro.

MurderMostFoul

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

I would guess stamDK has nothing over stamden when it comes to chaosball. Shimmering Shield beats wings, group major protection probably beats magma shell, both have major mending, warden has major expedition and a purge. The DK would be dead once afflicted with proc sets.

On a pure defensive spec, a DK can achieve a greater level of selfish defense and ~90% of the mobility as a Warden with less skills slotted and less GCDs - I'm pretty sure - and that extra 10% mobility I'm giving to the Warden just because of the Snare Resistance, whereas DK has a Snare attached to its Class DOTs, which balances this out a bit. The two are close enough it comes down to personal preference, I think. Really StamDen, StamSorc, and StamDK are all S Tier Running Backs, but since StamDen and StamSorc are better for offensive specs, overall they are better classes for BGs, I can agree on this. I can't remember a time when StamDK wasn't consistently the least represented among #1 Scores in Death Match in matches of all experienced players.

At some point, I guess we're having a different discussion about PvP vs PvLeader Board Position. The latter, in my view, puts StamDK at S Tier for 2/3 BG leaderboards, and MagCro and MagBlade at S Tier for Solo CP Cyro.

I see the BG section as focusing on DM, but not just pure killing power, instead comparing each class's ability to contribute to a team win.

Urzigurumash

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

I see the BG section as focusing on DM, but not just pure killing power, instead comparing each class's ability to contribute to a team win.

Right, that makes sense. Insofar as this Tier List might be construed as informative towards class balance adjustments, which I'm not sure was the intent, next patch we might see a substantial change in BG viability depending on how the elimination of mode-specific queues plays out. My suspicion has been that DM composes the preponderance of matches only because more are queueing for DM Only than Objective Only. If it pans out that all modes are an equal 20% of matches, this would obviously elevate Tank / Healing specs quite a bit, in terms of BG Wins. Because DM is so much more popular, as it is now classes stronger at DM will net your more wins than classes stronger at Objectives.

Of course the restoration of Group Queue may be more substantial than the mode queue adjustment. As you've noted above StamBlade's viability depends heavily on group composition, and I believe the same for StamDK. I always have much more success with another StamDK at my side, and if I'm with 3 MagSorcs / MagBlades I might as well log out rather than bring the group down with my pathetic solo attempts at melee. I just wonder whether any group won't run 4xMaw.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

Firstmep wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

The list looks great and well done, but like already said it is opinion based, skills are more important, i run a mag dk in pvp and kill on a reg bases the classes above me, the skills you use and how you move is more important

This list doesnt mean that x player on x class is a better player or not. Its an objective overview of what each of the classes are capable of in the current meta.
Yes i can also hop on my templars and kill wardens and necros but aganist similarly skilled opponents you can tell if a class is weaker, period.

i was just stating my opinion, that it is how you look at things and take other things into it, no need to get snarky by stating, "that's the end of that"

Vevvev

Shagreth wrote: »

Cheers for this, bit of a noob in the PvP scene, but where would you place say.. a DK werewolf? (slightly tankier than the rest I guess) for vampires I'm afraid to even ask, but would like to hear your thoughts. If either are viable I might get interested (I mostly went solo in the past.. talking back when vampires were OP in Cyro)

Vampire can work on a magDK in PvP but you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. The abilities are mostly utility and DK's Fossilize is a far better stun than vampire's AoE stun, which requires your targets to be looking at you. As you can guess this makes landing the stun incredibly difficult.

Eviscerate deals raw magic damage so you don't get flame procs to help with sustain, but at stage 4 it can get very cheap. That being said at stage 4 everything that isn't a vampire ability costs 12% more.... Including ultimates.

What I end up doing in PVP on my magDK when it comes to utilizing vampire I run stage 3 for the undeath passive, Arterial Burst for sustain at that stage, and have Elusive Mist back barred with Swarming Scion as well. I've tried my best to use Vampiric Drain but it just falls flat compared to everything else, and Mesmerize is only good in ball group vs ball group fights. Gives magDK a cheap AoE stun, but Borrowed Time is more reliable.

Gorreck

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

The list looks great and well done, but like already said it is opinion based, skills are more important, i run a mag dk in pvp and kill on a reg bases the classes above me, the skills you use and how you move is more important

This list doesnt mean that x player on x class is a better player or not. Its an objective overview of what each of the classes are capable of in the current meta.
Yes i can also hop on my templars and kill wardens and necros but aganist similarly skilled opponents you can tell if a class is weaker, period.

i was just stating my opinion, that it is how you look at things and take other things into it

Skill always beats balance (unless a game is really in trouble or you were playing a Necro in EQ1! ), but the point of balance is when skill is equal balance should be too.

Canned_Apples

This game doesn’t have classes, it has proc sets.
Thanks @ZOS_BrianWheeler