Which of the two vampire lord would win in a fight against each other. ((Contains spoilers))

Thevampirenight

Just for fun, making this poll,
Now to go into it,
Rada al-Saran- He's the guy that fought a goddess in a duel and basically neither could beat one another. He's a extremely powerful man and here is spoilers for the Reach stuff, don't click on it if you don't want to read any of it. Don't worry it does not exactly spoil the story but its basically what he's capable of doing lorewise.

Turn back for your own good, last chance.

Rada isn't just a powerful vampire lord with better wings then Harkon, he's also an Ansei and a pretty powerful one well not gameplay wise but lorewise possibly one of the most powerful ones and he actually knows the technique that destroyed Yokuda he is able to use that skill too. So not only is he a powerful Vampire Lord but this guy has a powerful form of magic that is above the Thu'um in terms of power. Basically this guy does not need any magicial storms to destroy Skyrim or possibly destroy all of Tamriel. This guy can in fact just do it with his spirit sword. It was confirmed he did fight the goddess he actually says it himself and the story is all true its not a fictional its an actual thing that happened. He fought her for three days and three nights just like the legends said that was before he was even a vampire lord. So he's a powerful Sword Singer that could take on a goddess of Swordplay. The fact he couldn't beat her fully is what led to him becoming a vampire lord.

Harkon is an impressive vampire lord, and he's the OG one as he was the first one ever seen in Elder Scrolls. But he's not unique as Eso has made it out there are others and the Volkihar are not unique to having this form.
He's the guy as we all know if you have played Dawnguard that wanted to blot out the sun, as it weakened him. He wanted to rule the night where vampires no longer had to fear the sun. Likely jealous some clans were able to do just that while he could not. So out of these two vampire lords who would win?

Vayln_Ninetails

Harkon

Only reason I vote Harkon is because at least his fight in-game is challenging. I suspect that the Rada Al Saran fight is going to be a snooze fest that can be light-attacked to win, even though he's supposed to be this mythical being that fought a goddess. I guess if we beat him that means we're as strong as him, right? (So again **why cant we be vampire lords if that is the case**)

Basically, I will be disappointed if this year ends with us killing the guy. I feel like this isn't something we as players should be able to kill. It'd be like us 1v1ing molag bal without literally ascending with the power of another daedric prince.

Edaphon

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

I suspect that the Rada Al Saran fight is going to be a snooze fest that can be light-attacked to win, even though he's supposed to be this mythical being that fought a goddess.

Yeah, even by story boss standards that fight was very easy.

Thevampirenight

Rada al-Saran

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

Only reason I vote Harkon is because at least his fight in-game is challenging. I suspect that the Rada Al Saran fight is going to be a snooze fest that can be light-attacked to win, even though he's supposed to be this mythical being that fought a goddess. I guess if we beat him that means we're as strong as him, right? (So again **why cant we be vampire lords if that is the case**)

Basically, I will be disappointed if this year ends with us killing the guy. I feel like this isn't something we as players should be able to kill. It'd be like us 1v1ing molag bal without literally ascending with the power of another daedric prince.

Harkon at least doesn't have to face a vestige that is so powerful that even the last Dragonborn doesn't have the skill the vestige does. Vestige would have likely cut Harkon through like cheese and said too easy. Then move to the next threat.
But this thread isn't about how powerful the vestige is. Its about a fight between these two powerful vampire lords.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

Only reason I vote Harkon is because at least his fight in-game is challenging. I suspect that the Rada Al Saran fight is going to be a snooze fest that can be light-attacked to win, even though he's supposed to be this mythical being that fought a goddess. I guess if we beat him that means we're as strong as him, right? (So again **why cant we be vampire lords if that is the case**)

Basically, I will be disappointed if this year ends with us killing the guy. I feel like this isn't something we as players should be able to kill. It'd be like us 1v1ing molag bal without literally ascending with the power of another daedric prince.

Harkon at least doesn't have to face a vestige that is so powerful that even the last Dragonborn doesn't have the skill the vestige does. Vestige would have likely cut Harkon through like cheese and said too easy. Then move to the next threat.
But this thread isn't about how powerful the vestige is. Its about a fight between these two powerful vampire lords.

Here is the major difference though between Lord Harkon and the Vampire Lord's that the Vestige encounters, Lord Harkon is Pureblooded not to mention he is older then they are come Skyrim's time period, how do we know that Harkon is older? well there is one small thing in Eastmarch that shows that even by ESO's time period Lord Harkon is already Ancient and that is the Vampire Majorn the Ancient who the devs stated was a Volkihar Vampire, now if he is ancient then Harkon would have to be as well because he is the Progenitor of that clan and come the 4th era he was probably older then Rada-Al-Saran ever was.

Rasa-Al-Saran is also Pureblooded but the only thing that Rada-Al-Saran has over Lord Harkon as far as Vampiric abilities go is a unique looking Vampire Lord form but given how the trailer depicted him with normal VL wings at first and then his wings were unfolded it is possible all Vampire Lords can actually do this (Otherwise there would be a major plothole here as to why his form is unique even though other Pureblooded Vampire Lords have the same form we are familiar with) he is only shown with unfolded wings to distinct him from other Vampire Lords in the game, Harkon did not have the issue of distinction because he was the only Vampire Lord in Skyrim that you actually fought.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Also what makes you think the LDB is less skilled then the Vestige? this guy takes a shortcut by absorbing Dragons and taking all their knowledge for themselves, I would say outside of Rada-Al-Saran's Ansei abilities Lord Harkon is more powerful simply because he was the enemy of the Last Dragonborn, someone who is able to easily dispatch Dragons, something the Vestige would have massive trouble doing by themselves.

Also yeah just because he fought Leki does not mean anything, one thing you do not consider is that Leki might not even be that powerful to begin with, she is little more then a Minor Deity.

Grianasteri

Everyone knows that Count Duckula would defeat all comers.

Vayln_Ninetails

Harkon

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

Only reason I vote Harkon is because at least his fight in-game is challenging. I suspect that the Rada Al Saran fight is going to be a snooze fest that can be light-attacked to win, even though he's supposed to be this mythical being that fought a goddess. I guess if we beat him that means we're as strong as him, right? (So again **why cant we be vampire lords if that is the case**)

Basically, I will be disappointed if this year ends with us killing the guy. I feel like this isn't something we as players should be able to kill. It'd be like us 1v1ing molag bal without literally ascending with the power of another daedric prince.

Harkon at least doesn't have to face a vestige that is so powerful that even the last Dragonborn doesn't have the skill the vestige does. Vestige would have likely cut Harkon through like cheese and said too easy. Then move to the next threat.
But this thread isn't about how powerful the vestige is. Its about a fight between these two powerful vampire lords.

If you claim the vestige is so powerful then how come we can't become vampire lords and why can't a vestige 1v1 a dragon? As @TX12001rwb17_ESO said, Lord Harkon had to fight someone WAY worse. The literal dragon born.

And I'm saying that Harkon would win because of this fact. Saran literally gets killed by the vestige, who is waaaaay weaker than a dragon born. Lord Harkon would probably wipe the floor with an ESO character, it'd be like trying to solo the final boss of kyne's aegis by yourself. That is how the fight would go.


If Lord Harkon can stand up against the dragonborn, killing Saran (who gets killed by the vestige) should be no problem. That is my argument and probably the reason why Lord Harkon doesn't even consider Saran a threat and chose to stay hidden. He is nothing.

Vayln_Ninetails

Harkon

Edaphon wrote: »

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

I suspect that the Rada Al Saran fight is going to be a snooze fest that can be light-attacked to win, even though he's supposed to be this mythical being that fought a goddess.

Yeah, even by story boss standards that fight was very easy.

Oh how I wish ESO's stories had any challenge whatsoever. Then I may actually never drop the game.

What happened to the good old days of having to learn the mechanics of a boss fight or having to get advice on how to beat the big evil bad guy? I remember going over to my friend's house as a kid and watching him try to beat Lord Harkon on a hard difficulty, it was a ball. ESO doesn't have that, unfortunately. Which is a shame because Saran seems like a cool character.

Ryuvain

Harkon

I'd take seeing how Rada fights over stories, but we don't have anything on him yet. Both vestige and Dragonborn can level and gain power, but Dragonborn still has completely unique powers.

It's more of how Dragonborn can pretty much use just about everything a vestige can too.

Thevampirenight

Rada al-Saran

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

Only reason I vote Harkon is because at least his fight in-game is challenging. I suspect that the Rada Al Saran fight is going to be a snooze fest that can be light-attacked to win, even though he's supposed to be this mythical being that fought a goddess. I guess if we beat him that means we're as strong as him, right? (So again **why cant we be vampire lords if that is the case**)

Basically, I will be disappointed if this year ends with us killing the guy. I feel like this isn't something we as players should be able to kill. It'd be like us 1v1ing molag bal without literally ascending with the power of another daedric prince.

Harkon at least doesn't have to face a vestige that is so powerful that even the last Dragonborn doesn't have the skill the vestige does. Vestige would have likely cut Harkon through like cheese and said too easy. Then move to the next threat.
But this thread isn't about how powerful the vestige is. Its about a fight between these two powerful vampire lords.

If you claim the vestige is so powerful then how come we can't become vampire lords and why can't a vestige 1v1 a dragon? As @TX12001rwb17_ESO said, Lord Harkon had to fight someone WAY worse. The literal dragon born.

And I'm saying that Harkon would win because of this fact. Saran literally gets killed by the vestige, who is waaaaay weaker than a dragon born. Lord Harkon would probably wipe the floor with an ESO character, it'd be like trying to solo the final boss of kyne's aegis by yourself. That is how the fight would go.


If Lord Harkon can stand up against the dragonborn, killing Saran (who gets killed by the vestige) should be no problem. That is my argument and probably the reason why Lord Harkon doesn't even consider Saran a threat and chose to stay hidden. He is nothing.

I suspect the real reason why we are unable to become vampire lords is Bethesda won't allow Zenimax to do that with our in game vampire strain. Originally I do think they had planned to make the Blood Scion more like the vampire lord. But I think Bethesda told them no on this. So they had to make them different, I'm guessing this one of the reasons why they removed the wings from the blood scion model as well.

Thevampirenight

Rada al-Saran

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Also what makes you think the LDB is less skilled then the Vestige? this guy takes a shortcut by absorbing Dragons and taking all their knowledge for themselves, I would say outside of Rada-Al-Saran's Ansei abilities Lord Harkon is more powerful simply because he was the enemy of the Last Dragonborn, someone who is able to easily dispatch Dragons, something the Vestige would have massive trouble doing by themselves.

Also yeah just because he fought Leki does not mean anything, one thing you do not consider is that Leki might not even be that powerful to begin with, she is little more then a Minor Deity.

Well according to Mk, Leki is up there in one of the most powerful beings.
Talos.
The HoonDing.
Trinimac.
Vivec.
Leki.
Reman.
Auri-El.
Wulfharth.
Morihaus.
Pelinal.

So if he's referring to the Daughter of Tall Papa here. Then Rada technically could face her in sword play and neither could beat the other. Michael Kirkbride is the former dev that introduced many of the unique concepts that have made it to the canon. Even the stuff he did even after he no longer worked for Bethesda. According to him and this list, she is above the gods, Reman and Auri-el in terms of power. If this list ever made its way to actual canon. Then Leki would be more powerful then Auri-el(Akatosh)

VaranisArano

Unlike Harkon, Rada al-Saran seems to be able to put together a plan and an alliance to achieve said plan. And he's actually been fairly proactive about getting the plan accomplished.

I mean, what was Harkon's plan? "I'll sit in my castle while I send my infighting minions/the Dragonborn and my unhappy daughter to do my dirty work. What could go wrong?!"

Harkon's lazy, and it even costs him the boss fight. Like, when you've got my Dragonborn on the ropes, maybe don't give me a breather to let me eat 100 cheese wheels heal up while hoping your gargoyle minions will finish the job.

Lord-Otto

Harkon

You forgot one thing: Auriel's Bow.
Harkon has the unique ability to shield and heal, which you're supposed to interrupt with the bow. It's hard to powerscale this to al-Saran's fight with a goddes. But I'm going out on a limb and say if a whole story revolves around you getting the weapon of the chief deity in TES to stand a chance canon-wise against Harkon, that ability is probably extremely overpowered from a lore perspective.
I can draw a sure conclusion after I've dealt with Rada in the Reach.

Vevvev

Rada al-Saran

Lore wise Harkon might be old but we have one little fact we must consider here. Both of them are Vampire Lords but while Harkon sat on his butt and did nothing Rada al-Saran is a sword singer! That's like turning the Dragonborn into a Vampire Lord levels of power and it ended up being Harkon's downfall in the end of Dawnguard. (If the player became a vampire that is.)

Harkon also relies heavily on his blood fountain to stay alive and to draw upon his power. He is terrified of death and I don't see him leaving his castle until the Sun prophecy is complete. Rada al-Saran is a fighter and doesn't seem to fear death to the same degree, and we also have to account for the fact Rada al-Saran fought in the Grey Host's battles and has plenty of combat experience.

Harkon does not stand a chance against Rada al-Saran when you compare the capabilities of the two Lords.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Thevampirenight wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Also what makes you think the LDB is less skilled then the Vestige? this guy takes a shortcut by absorbing Dragons and taking all their knowledge for themselves, I would say outside of Rada-Al-Saran's Ansei abilities Lord Harkon is more powerful simply because he was the enemy of the Last Dragonborn, someone who is able to easily dispatch Dragons, something the Vestige would have massive trouble doing by themselves.

Also yeah just because he fought Leki does not mean anything, one thing you do not consider is that Leki might not even be that powerful to begin with, she is little more then a Minor Deity.

Well according to Mk, Leki is up there in one of the most powerful beings.
Talos.
The HoonDing.
Trinimac.
Vivec.
Leki.
Reman.
Auri-El.
Wulfharth.
Morihaus.
Pelinal.

So if he's referring to the Daughter of Tall Papa here. Then Rada technically could face her in sword play and neither could beat the other. Michael Kirkbride is the former dev that introduced many of the unique concepts that have made it to the canon. Even the stuff he did even after he no longer worked for Bethesda. According to him and this list, she is above the gods, Reman and Auri-el in terms of power. If this list ever made its way to actual canon. Then Leki would be more powerful then Auri-el(Akatosh)

And you do not think it is at all odd that this list makes no mention of any Daedric Princes who I am pretty sure surpass Morihaus or Pelinal in strength? hell if Rada was her equal then where is he on that list? where is Akatosh or Alduin or Mannimarco or Divayth Fyr, hell I am pretty sure Miraak is more powerful then Reman, who in the end was just another Dragonborn.

That list means absolutely nothing.

Vayln_Ninetails

Harkon

Vevvev wrote: »

Lore wise Harkon might be old but we have one little fact we must consider here. Both of them are Vampire Lords but while Harkon sat on his butt and did nothing Rada al-Saran is a sword singer! That's like turning the Dragonborn into a Vampire Lord levels of power and it ended up being Harkon's downfall in the end of Dawnguard. (If the player became a vampire that is.)

Harkon also relies heavily on his blood fountain to stay alive and to draw upon his power. He is terrified of death and I don't see him leaving his castle until the Sun prophecy is complete. Rada al-Saran is a fighter and doesn't seem to fear death to the same degree, and we also have to account for the fact Rada al-Saran fought in the Grey Host's battles and has plenty of combat experience.

Harkon does not stand a chance against Rada al-Saran when you compare the capabilities of the two Lords.

But what if you consider the fact that the literal only way to beat Harkon in-lore is with the auriel's bow? And yet Saran gets defeated really easily by the Vestige in ESO?

Rada does not stand a chance if he doesn't know he needs that bow. And since Harkon probably wouldn't leave his domain to do this fight, Saran would most likely have to confront him there.

I just think it's a bit silly to think that Saran, a character who gets destroyed by someone as weak as the vestige, stands even remotely a chance against Harkon, a vampire lord who would have wiped the floor with the dragonborn if they didn't have the bow.

VaranisArano

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Lore wise Harkon might be old but we have one little fact we must consider here. Both of them are Vampire Lords but while Harkon sat on his butt and did nothing Rada al-Saran is a sword singer! That's like turning the Dragonborn into a Vampire Lord levels of power and it ended up being Harkon's downfall in the end of Dawnguard. (If the player became a vampire that is.)

Harkon also relies heavily on his blood fountain to stay alive and to draw upon his power. He is terrified of death and I don't see him leaving his castle until the Sun prophecy is complete. Rada al-Saran is a fighter and doesn't seem to fear death to the same degree, and we also have to account for the fact Rada al-Saran fought in the Grey Host's battles and has plenty of combat experience.

Harkon does not stand a chance against Rada al-Saran when you compare the capabilities of the two Lords.

But what if you consider the fact that the literal only way to beat Harkon in-lore is with the auriel's bow? And yet Saran gets defeated really easily by the Vestige in ESO?

Rada does not stand a chance if he doesn't know he needs that bow. And since Harkon probably wouldn't leave his domain to do this fight, Saran would most likely have to confront him there.

I just think it's a bit silly to think that Saran, a character who gets destroyed by someone as weak as the vestige, stands even remotely a chance against Harkon, a vampire lord who would have wiped the floor with the dragonborn if they didn't have the bow.

I feel like people are overstating the need for Auriel's Bow. You can give Harkon the bow before your boss fight and still defeat him. Its just a harder fight if you do.

Thevampirenight

Rada al-Saran

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Also what makes you think the LDB is less skilled then the Vestige? this guy takes a shortcut by absorbing Dragons and taking all their knowledge for themselves, I would say outside of Rada-Al-Saran's Ansei abilities Lord Harkon is more powerful simply because he was the enemy of the Last Dragonborn, someone who is able to easily dispatch Dragons, something the Vestige would have massive trouble doing by themselves.

Also yeah just because he fought Leki does not mean anything, one thing you do not consider is that Leki might not even be that powerful to begin with, she is little more then a Minor Deity.

Well according to Mk, Leki is up there in one of the most powerful beings.
Talos.
The HoonDing.
Trinimac.
Vivec.
Leki.
Reman.
Auri-El.
Wulfharth.
Morihaus.
Pelinal.

So if he's referring to the Daughter of Tall Papa here. Then Rada technically could face her in sword play and neither could beat the other. Michael Kirkbride is the former dev that introduced many of the unique concepts that have made it to the canon. Even the stuff he did even after he no longer worked for Bethesda. According to him and this list, she is above the gods, Reman and Auri-el in terms of power. If this list ever made its way to actual canon. Then Leki would be more powerful then Auri-el(Akatosh)

And you do not think it is at all odd that this list makes no mention of any Daedric Princes who I am pretty sure surpass Morihaus or Pelinal in strength? hell if Rada was her equal then where is he on that list? where is Akatosh or Alduin or Mannimarco or Divayth Fyr, hell I am pretty sure Miraak is more powerful then Reman, who in the end was just another Dragonborn.

That list means absolutely nothing.

Rada was introduced in Eso, and Mk did this list before Eso was even released. Rada was actually introduced lorewise in the base game from an npc in Leki's Blade who told his story. There was a quest involving vampires there and I think that is the main reason why they picked Rada. So they took all their vampire content from the Daggerfall Covenant stories and used the lore introduced in that content to make the year long vampire/werewolf/witch storyline.

Lord-Otto

Harkon

VaranisArano wrote: »

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Lore wise Harkon might be old but we have one little fact we must consider here. Both of them are Vampire Lords but while Harkon sat on his butt and did nothing Rada al-Saran is a sword singer! That's like turning the Dragonborn into a Vampire Lord levels of power and it ended up being Harkon's downfall in the end of Dawnguard. (If the player became a vampire that is.)

Harkon also relies heavily on his blood fountain to stay alive and to draw upon his power. He is terrified of death and I don't see him leaving his castle until the Sun prophecy is complete. Rada al-Saran is a fighter and doesn't seem to fear death to the same degree, and we also have to account for the fact Rada al-Saran fought in the Grey Host's battles and has plenty of combat experience.

Harkon does not stand a chance against Rada al-Saran when you compare the capabilities of the two Lords.

But what if you consider the fact that the literal only way to beat Harkon in-lore is with the auriel's bow? And yet Saran gets defeated really easily by the Vestige in ESO?

Rada does not stand a chance if he doesn't know he needs that bow. And since Harkon probably wouldn't leave his domain to do this fight, Saran would most likely have to confront him there.

I just think it's a bit silly to think that Saran, a character who gets destroyed by someone as weak as the vestige, stands even remotely a chance against Harkon, a vampire lord who would have wiped the floor with the dragonborn if they didn't have the bow.

I feel like people are overstating the need for Auriel's Bow. You can give Harkon the bow before your boss fight and still defeat him. Its just a harder fight if you do.

Think this is non-canon. The game specifically builds a story around the need for the bow. You cannot skip getting the bow to challenge Harkon, so it's pretty clear using the bow is supposed to be canon.

Vevvev

Rada al-Saran

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Lore wise Harkon might be old but we have one little fact we must consider here. Both of them are Vampire Lords but while Harkon sat on his butt and did nothing Rada al-Saran is a sword singer! That's like turning the Dragonborn into a Vampire Lord levels of power and it ended up being Harkon's downfall in the end of Dawnguard. (If the player became a vampire that is.)

Harkon also relies heavily on his blood fountain to stay alive and to draw upon his power. He is terrified of death and I don't see him leaving his castle until the Sun prophecy is complete. Rada al-Saran is a fighter and doesn't seem to fear death to the same degree, and we also have to account for the fact Rada al-Saran fought in the Grey Host's battles and has plenty of combat experience.

Harkon does not stand a chance against Rada al-Saran when you compare the capabilities of the two Lords.

But what if you consider the fact that the literal only way to beat Harkon in-lore is with the auriel's bow? And yet Saran gets defeated really easily by the Vestige in ESO?

Rada does not stand a chance if he doesn't know he needs that bow. And since Harkon probably wouldn't leave his domain to do this fight, Saran would most likely have to confront him there.

I just think it's a bit silly to think that Saran, a character who gets destroyed by someone as weak as the vestige, stands even remotely a chance against Harkon, a vampire lord who would have wiped the floor with the dragonborn if they didn't have the bow.

I'm sorry my friend but you forget something. Both Rada al-Saran and Harkon can harvest that same blood magic. Also it is possible to beat Harkon after giving him Auri'el's bow so that is just incorrect. He is not unbeatable.

Nord_Raseri

Fairly sure I beat harkon to death with my fists. Also fairly sure I'll be doing the same to al-saran.

VaranisArano

Lord-Otto wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Lore wise Harkon might be old but we have one little fact we must consider here. Both of them are Vampire Lords but while Harkon sat on his butt and did nothing Rada al-Saran is a sword singer! That's like turning the Dragonborn into a Vampire Lord levels of power and it ended up being Harkon's downfall in the end of Dawnguard. (If the player became a vampire that is.)

Harkon also relies heavily on his blood fountain to stay alive and to draw upon his power. He is terrified of death and I don't see him leaving his castle until the Sun prophecy is complete. Rada al-Saran is a fighter and doesn't seem to fear death to the same degree, and we also have to account for the fact Rada al-Saran fought in the Grey Host's battles and has plenty of combat experience.

Harkon does not stand a chance against Rada al-Saran when you compare the capabilities of the two Lords.

But what if you consider the fact that the literal only way to beat Harkon in-lore is with the auriel's bow? And yet Saran gets defeated really easily by the Vestige in ESO?

Rada does not stand a chance if he doesn't know he needs that bow. And since Harkon probably wouldn't leave his domain to do this fight, Saran would most likely have to confront him there.

I just think it's a bit silly to think that Saran, a character who gets destroyed by someone as weak as the vestige, stands even remotely a chance against Harkon, a vampire lord who would have wiped the floor with the dragonborn if they didn't have the bow.

I feel like people are overstating the need for Auriel's Bow. You can give Harkon the bow before your boss fight and still defeat him. Its just a harder fight if you do.

Think this is non-canon. The game specifically builds a story around the need for the bow. You cannot skip getting the bow to challenge Harkon, so it's pretty clear using the bow is supposed to be canon.

And yet it's not required for the boss fight by gameplay, and my Dragonborn still defeated Harkon without it. So it's not non-canon, so much as a lesser used option that your Dragonborn may have believed impossible.

Regardless, like most artifacts, Auriel's Bow moves around. Its showed up in four of the five single-player games thus far, so it's not too much of a stretch that if Rada al-saran really needed it, he could probably find it (might have to bargain with Sheogorath to unleash it on Cyrodiil as planned) Getting Bloodcursed/Sunhallowed arrows might be the harder part. Gotta find a daughter of Coldharbor for those and there aren't many around.

JoeCapricorn

Rada al-Saran

I vote Rada, his wings are sexier.

kargen27

Grianasteri wrote: »

Everyone knows that Count Duckula would defeat all comers.

Nah Count Chocula would reign supreme.

Lord-Otto

Harkon

VaranisArano wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Lore wise Harkon might be old but we have one little fact we must consider here. Both of them are Vampire Lords but while Harkon sat on his butt and did nothing Rada al-Saran is a sword singer! That's like turning the Dragonborn into a Vampire Lord levels of power and it ended up being Harkon's downfall in the end of Dawnguard. (If the player became a vampire that is.)

Harkon also relies heavily on his blood fountain to stay alive and to draw upon his power. He is terrified of death and I don't see him leaving his castle until the Sun prophecy is complete. Rada al-Saran is a fighter and doesn't seem to fear death to the same degree, and we also have to account for the fact Rada al-Saran fought in the Grey Host's battles and has plenty of combat experience.

Harkon does not stand a chance against Rada al-Saran when you compare the capabilities of the two Lords.

But what if you consider the fact that the literal only way to beat Harkon in-lore is with the auriel's bow? And yet Saran gets defeated really easily by the Vestige in ESO?

Rada does not stand a chance if he doesn't know he needs that bow. And since Harkon probably wouldn't leave his domain to do this fight, Saran would most likely have to confront him there.

I just think it's a bit silly to think that Saran, a character who gets destroyed by someone as weak as the vestige, stands even remotely a chance against Harkon, a vampire lord who would have wiped the floor with the dragonborn if they didn't have the bow.

I feel like people are overstating the need for Auriel's Bow. You can give Harkon the bow before your boss fight and still defeat him. Its just a harder fight if you do.

Think this is non-canon. The game specifically builds a story around the need for the bow. You cannot skip getting the bow to challenge Harkon, so it's pretty clear using the bow is supposed to be canon.

And yet it's not required for the boss fight by gameplay, and my Dragonborn still defeated Harkon without it. So it's not non-canon, so much as a lesser used option that your Dragonborn may have believed impossible.

Regardless, like most artifacts, Auriel's Bow moves around. Its showed up in four of the five single-player games thus far, so it's not too much of a stretch that if Rada al-saran really needed it, he could probably find it (might have to bargain with Sheogorath to unleash it on Cyrodiil as planned) Getting Bloodcursed/Sunhallowed arrows might be the harder part. Gotta find a daughter of Coldharbor for those and there aren't many around.

And you can blast Alduin out of the air with Lightning Storm and a couple destruction potions. But the game still makes it very clear that you canonically need Dragonrend to defeat Alduin.

VaranisArano

Lord-Otto wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Lore wise Harkon might be old but we have one little fact we must consider here. Both of them are Vampire Lords but while Harkon sat on his butt and did nothing Rada al-Saran is a sword singer! That's like turning the Dragonborn into a Vampire Lord levels of power and it ended up being Harkon's downfall in the end of Dawnguard. (If the player became a vampire that is.)

Harkon also relies heavily on his blood fountain to stay alive and to draw upon his power. He is terrified of death and I don't see him leaving his castle until the Sun prophecy is complete. Rada al-Saran is a fighter and doesn't seem to fear death to the same degree, and we also have to account for the fact Rada al-Saran fought in the Grey Host's battles and has plenty of combat experience.

Harkon does not stand a chance against Rada al-Saran when you compare the capabilities of the two Lords.

But what if you consider the fact that the literal only way to beat Harkon in-lore is with the auriel's bow? And yet Saran gets defeated really easily by the Vestige in ESO?

Rada does not stand a chance if he doesn't know he needs that bow. And since Harkon probably wouldn't leave his domain to do this fight, Saran would most likely have to confront him there.

I just think it's a bit silly to think that Saran, a character who gets destroyed by someone as weak as the vestige, stands even remotely a chance against Harkon, a vampire lord who would have wiped the floor with the dragonborn if they didn't have the bow.

I feel like people are overstating the need for Auriel's Bow. You can give Harkon the bow before your boss fight and still defeat him. Its just a harder fight if you do.

Think this is non-canon. The game specifically builds a story around the need for the bow. You cannot skip getting the bow to challenge Harkon, so it's pretty clear using the bow is supposed to be canon.

And yet it's not required for the boss fight by gameplay, and my Dragonborn still defeated Harkon without it. So it's not non-canon, so much as a lesser used option that your Dragonborn may have believed impossible.

Regardless, like most artifacts, Auriel's Bow moves around. Its showed up in four of the five single-player games thus far, so it's not too much of a stretch that if Rada al-saran really needed it, he could probably find it (might have to bargain with Sheogorath to unleash it on Cyrodiil as planned) Getting Bloodcursed/Sunhallowed arrows might be the harder part. Gotta find a daughter of Coldharbor for those and there aren't many around.

And you can blast Alduin out of the air with Lightning Storm and a couple destruction potions. But the game still makes it very clear that you canonically need Dragonrend to defeat Alduin.

I don't think that's the same. In the case of Harkon, it's not like you just go "whelp, I'm going see if I can do this without the bow regardless of what the story wants" and then never equip it - like your version of the fight with Alduin.

No, its not like that. Harkon demands the bow. You can hand over the bow in direct response to his demand. "Very well." (Give Auriel's Bow) That's a choice the Devs created for the player to make and the boss fight is harder, but winnable if you do choose to hand over the bow. Breaking his shield with the blessed/cursed arrows isn't necessary to defeat him.

Now, we can argue that common sense would prevent any but the most loyal of Vampire Dragonborn from handing over the bow, but I think that's the point of having that roleplaying option. A loyal Vampire Dragonborn (or a really, really cowardly Dawnguard Dragonborn, I guess?) can hand over the bow...and then Harkon betrays them anyway. Its a good option for role-playing that illustrates the extremes of the selfishly tyrannical nature of Harkon. And because the Devs deliberately included that option in Harkon's dialogue and the player's ability to hand over the bow, its not non-canon that you can defeat Harkon without the bow. In fact, I'd argue that taking that option provided by the Devs makes it clear that Harkon can canonically be defeated. without the bow. (Which has interesting implications for the whole DLC, but I don't want to derail with my thinky thoughts.)

Video with option to hand over the bow:

https://youtu.be/QL_e4JiLwL0

ShadowHvo

Harkon

Both are equal whimps that will be beaten into submission by some wannabe hero.

Everyone here be praising Rada Al-Saran when he is hardly more active than Harkon. If anything, this bloke straight up allowed the heroes to beat his own progeny, and in turn his very own plan. Why? Because he had to be a fancy villain rather than a smart one. Lets not mention that his giant army of supernaturals got beaten into literal submission.

Harkon is only cooler because he's the first. Rada Al-Saran is the sloppy seconds.

Lord-Otto

Harkon

VaranisArano wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Lore wise Harkon might be old but we have one little fact we must consider here. Both of them are Vampire Lords but while Harkon sat on his butt and did nothing Rada al-Saran is a sword singer! That's like turning the Dragonborn into a Vampire Lord levels of power and it ended up being Harkon's downfall in the end of Dawnguard. (If the player became a vampire that is.)

Harkon also relies heavily on his blood fountain to stay alive and to draw upon his power. He is terrified of death and I don't see him leaving his castle until the Sun prophecy is complete. Rada al-Saran is a fighter and doesn't seem to fear death to the same degree, and we also have to account for the fact Rada al-Saran fought in the Grey Host's battles and has plenty of combat experience.

Harkon does not stand a chance against Rada al-Saran when you compare the capabilities of the two Lords.

But what if you consider the fact that the literal only way to beat Harkon in-lore is with the auriel's bow? And yet Saran gets defeated really easily by the Vestige in ESO?

Rada does not stand a chance if he doesn't know he needs that bow. And since Harkon probably wouldn't leave his domain to do this fight, Saran would most likely have to confront him there.

I just think it's a bit silly to think that Saran, a character who gets destroyed by someone as weak as the vestige, stands even remotely a chance against Harkon, a vampire lord who would have wiped the floor with the dragonborn if they didn't have the bow.

I feel like people are overstating the need for Auriel's Bow. You can give Harkon the bow before your boss fight and still defeat him. Its just a harder fight if you do.

Think this is non-canon. The game specifically builds a story around the need for the bow. You cannot skip getting the bow to challenge Harkon, so it's pretty clear using the bow is supposed to be canon.

And yet it's not required for the boss fight by gameplay, and my Dragonborn still defeated Harkon without it. So it's not non-canon, so much as a lesser used option that your Dragonborn may have believed impossible.

Regardless, like most artifacts, Auriel's Bow moves around. Its showed up in four of the five single-player games thus far, so it's not too much of a stretch that if Rada al-saran really needed it, he could probably find it (might have to bargain with Sheogorath to unleash it on Cyrodiil as planned) Getting Bloodcursed/Sunhallowed arrows might be the harder part. Gotta find a daughter of Coldharbor for those and there aren't many around.

And you can blast Alduin out of the air with Lightning Storm and a couple destruction potions. But the game still makes it very clear that you canonically need Dragonrend to defeat Alduin.

I don't think that's the same. In the case of Harkon, it's not like you just go "whelp, I'm going see if I can do this without the bow regardless of what the story wants" and then never equip it - like your version of the fight with Alduin.

No, its not like that. Harkon demands the bow. You can hand over the bow in direct response to his demand. "Very well." (Give Auriel's Bow) That's a choice the Devs created for the player to make and the boss fight is harder, but winnable if you do choose to hand over the bow. Breaking his shield with the blessed/cursed arrows isn't necessary to defeat him.

Now, we can argue that common sense would prevent any but the most loyal of Vampire Dragonborn from handing over the bow, but I think that's the point of having that roleplaying option. A loyal Vampire Dragonborn (or a really, really cowardly Dawnguard Dragonborn, I guess?) can hand over the bow...and then Harkon betrays them anyway. Its a good option for role-playing that illustrates the extremes of the selfishly tyrannical nature of Harkon. And because the Devs deliberately included that option in Harkon's dialogue and the player's ability to hand over the bow, its not non-canon that you can defeat Harkon without the bow. In fact, I'd argue that taking that option provided by the Devs makes it clear that Harkon can canonically be defeated. without the bow. (Which has interesting implications for the whole DLC, but I don't want to derail with my thinky thoughts.)

Video with option to hand over the bow:

https://youtu.be/QL_e4JiLwL0

Nope. The game doesn't even give you the option to challenge him before acquiring the bow. This underlines that the bow must be in play.

Grianasteri

Grianasteri wrote: »

Everyone knows that Count Duckula would defeat all comers.

Criminally underrated comment ^

barney2525

the one on the left


because left is always right