Selling Trial Skins should be against terms of service

Vaughndaunted

The endgame trial community has become extremely toxic and unwelcoming of players who go against a social understanding for selling skins. Guilds have blacklisted and outcasted other players due to a belief that people should conform to a policy of selling skins at the same price.

This doesn’t benefit the community when too guilds insist you sell at market value otherwise they will ruin your reputation causing others to not want to play with them.

This is not a healthy way for the ESO community to prosper. Thoughts?

redspecter23

It sounds like you've found an issue but then blamed something different for the problem. You've encountered players who want to set a certain set of rules down for all to follow. Whether this happens concerning skin selling or some other act in game, banning that act won't automatically make these people agree with your moral or economic priorities.

Mindcr0w

As long as the trials/dungeons are being completed legitimately without exploits the selling of skins should absolutely not be banned. Squabbles over price & a few bad actors causing drama shouldn't cause a service to be stopped altogether. That is just asinine. Should selling on eBay and Amazon be banned because review bombers exist?

Hapexamendios

OK, but could you wait a couple weeks. I've almost got the money together for my vMoL carry.

Runes_Ur

Skin/title runs are a perfectly decent way to offer services to individuals whom are willing to pay for said service, oh and its perfectly in line with the ToS and has been verified by ZoS devs that such acts of gold making are perfectly fine. Sounds to me that you came across individuals who's prices are out of your hands and you decided to take to forums. Farm a little, make some gold in sewers, raw mats, ap, etc. Having the proper amount of gold for your desired skin you want to obtain may remedy the problem of complaining about the skin runs in the first place. Goodluck!

CrashTest

I think it's fine to sell carries, and it shouldn't be against TOS.

There's no real way anyone can force you into selling for the same price. Just undercut them and you'll get all the business. I've seen various prices for the same content, so there's definitely not a fixed price everywhere.

PC-NA

caperb

While I think selling trial skins is against social norms I don't think it should be forbidden. I am in favour of a free market and unfortunately there will always be ***.

Also it isn't impossible to get the skins, even for a new player. IMO it is much faster (!) to invest some time to learn the actual mechanics than get the money while also enjoying the game, even for newer players. And that is mostly because the prices are way too high for the service offered.

What I think should be forbidden is all these chat spam. Heck, they even coming to Cyrodiil now. At least give these *** their own private sales chat channel so zone chat isn't totally blocked by this blatant spam. About that, does anyone know an add-on that filters WTS-messages?

volkeswagon

funny how people think they have the authority to tell others what to sell stuff for. If you want to screw them give skin runs for free. Hey if I wanted the gold skin and someone wanted 2 million to get it for me and I was happy paying that then there is no issue. I mean if the gold skin was a tradable runebox how much do you think it would sell for.

SydneyGrey

I haven't bought or sold skins like this, but I don't see anything wrong with it. It's just a game.

SamanthaCarter

100k rune box skin (carry for millions = scam)

colossalvoids

Then zos should ramp up amount of gold earned significantly by higher end raiding itself (dlc hm's, no deaths runs etc. ramping with trial difficulty and score gained) as rn carry runs help the raiders that log in only for a raid nights and still need to gold out gear and buy pots. Surely not everyone struggle like that but it's a thing still. Imagine gaining gold by actually participating in hardest content zos releases.

midgetfromtheshire

Vaughndaunted wrote: »

The endgame trial community has become extremely toxic and unwelcoming of players who go against a social understanding for selling skins. Guilds have blacklisted and outcasted other players due to a belief that people should conform to a policy of selling skins at the same price.

This doesn’t benefit the community when too guilds insist you sell at market value otherwise they will ruin your reputation causing others to not want to play with them.

This is not a healthy way for the ESO community to prosper. Thoughts?

So which is it, you don't agree with prices staying the same or people who sell trial carries?

FakeFox

As someone who is doing carries for over three years now I can not agree what so ever. The endgame trial community does not only consist of carry groups, there are many successful groups out there that have nothing to do with carries what so ever. Inside the carry market there are plenty of different groups as well. Yes, there are those that stick to a very strict price policy and like every other guild, they have the freedom to kick you, if you don't confirm to their rules. But it is a free market and if you don't like their rules, you simply join a group with different rules or make your own group. And yes, there are also those childish individuals that take a video game a bit to serious. You ignore them, or if they commit a bannable offense, you report them, instead of being childish your self and trying to get carries as a whole outlawed, because neither carries as a concept, nor the community as a whole are at fault for the bad behavior of a few individuals.

ZaroktheImmortal

I mean if people want to pay for carries it's up to them and if they want to pay those prices. Personally as much as I like new shinies I wouldn't pay for a carry I like to know I can actually complete the content.

kaisernick

I personally dont like such a system as it can very easily get out of control, WoW carrys have gotten so bad that its can very very hard to find a group to just do the dam things.

ESO is not there yet but i think the community needs to be careful.

Pauwer

Can i sell pvp carries on my awesome pvp healer somehow? Any takers?

NagyPako

Pauwer wrote: »

Can i sell pvp carries on my awesome pvp healer somehow? Any takers?

Ive seen emp carries already. Kek

spartaxoxo

Wait so you want it all banned since you can't get someone to agree with the price you want to sell/buy it for? Am I reading that right?

Husan

Sorry, could someone explain how these carries work? I'm seeing the advertisements in almost all overland zones (mostly in Deshaan, Greenshade, Stormhaven, Craglorn, Western Skyrim), but I'm not sure how it works. Are you just supposed to hand them over your account and they will run the content on your account? That doesn't seem in accordance with the TOS, is it? Don't tell anyone, but I may or may not have skipped parts of it .

Also, what is the going price for those achievements? I'm asking for a friend ofcourse

agegarton

If you've got the gold and you REALLY want the achievement / item, who cares if you pay? I don't.

Some content is either simply above the level of some players, or just outside of the interest levels of them. I once paid for a carry (in-game gold) - my guild was progressing well through the vet content of a trial (KA), but to be honest I found it incredibly boring. For our group (as for many progression groups) it was a time consuming and sometimes frustrating exercise. Many of the group loved it - I wanted to poke my eyes out with a screwdriver.

I now have the world's most expensive longship anchored off my palace and my eyes have remained screwdriver-free.

Other trails I have found really quite fun and have run them myself several times. I guess one man's meat is another's poison.

Coopersnow

Husan wrote: »

Sorry, could someone explain how these carries work? I'm seeing the advertisements in almost all overland zones (mostly in Deshaan, Greenshade, Stormhaven, Craglorn, Western Skyrim), but I'm not sure how it works. Are you just supposed to hand them over your account and they will run the content on your account? That doesn't seem in accordance with the TOS, is it? Don't tell anyone, but I may or may not have skipped parts of it .

Also, what is the going price for those achievements? I'm asking for a friend ofcourse

Trial/ dungeon carries work like any normal trial. In this case you just pay gold to get in that "group" and guarantee to achive the clear/title/skin you want. Also gear carry runs are more often then skin/title carry runs. At the end of the trial 11 of the carriers trade the gear that dropped during the raid to you. There is no acc sharing involved or anything you just trade the before agreed amount of gold to the group and then you enter the trial together with them and get carried trough it.

Prof_Bawbag

How would you even begin to prove this? so basically, ban anyone under a certain amount of DPS from running a vet trial (what about healers and tanks?) or someone under a certain CP? Even if it was sound logic, which it isn't, there's zero way to police it. Handing X amount of gold over to an individual isn't against the ToS. What was that gold for? He was my mate, i owed them it for past favours (items etc etc).

If folk want to give someone 4m of their gold for absolutely nothing, then that's fine. If folk want to give 4m gold for a motif page, that's fine. If folk want to pay 4m for tagging along during some content, that's fine too.

bmnoble

Easy just put the skins up for completing normal trials, no longer need the vet carries, these players wanting the carries are never going to run the trials in vet difficulty more than once each to get their skins and move on anyway so it should not negatively affect the number of players running trials much.

Aside from the guilds losing an income source from skin carries, having to rely instead on the smaller number of people wanting carries for perfected gear and achievements/titles.

Even if they lose the carries for trials people will still pay for vet carries of arena's and dungeon helmet runs, even rich people buying the Emperor-ship in Cyrodiil.

There probably will be some who will rage quit since its one of their main gold income sources but in reality it far more likely the skins will just end up on the crown store more frequently, stealing most of these guilds customers anyway.

AgaTheGreat

I made at least 20m selling skins. I have nothing against it as long as the buyer doesn't later use that skin as an entry to some kind of end game group. They should be honest about it and join progression groups to actually learn the mechanics.

NagyPako

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

I made at least 20m selling skins. I have nothing against it as long as the buyer doesn't later use that skin as an entry to some kind of end game group. They should be honest about it and join progression groups to actually learn the mechanics.

As if it matters. Teams that are not made of incompetent fools will ask for either evidence (logs) whenever that certain individual is under application period, or it doesnt take long for the team to realise he got carried or whatever. Max 2 raids and then he is out.

Husan

Coopersnow wrote: »

Husan wrote: »

Sorry, could someone explain how these carries work? I'm seeing the advertisements in almost all overland zones (mostly in Deshaan, Greenshade, Stormhaven, Craglorn, Western Skyrim), but I'm not sure how it works. Are you just supposed to hand them over your account and they will run the content on your account? That doesn't seem in accordance with the TOS, is it? Don't tell anyone, but I may or may not have skipped parts of it .

Also, what is the going price for those achievements? I'm asking for a friend ofcourse

Trial/ dungeon carries work like any normal trial. In this case you just pay gold to get in that "group" and guarantee to achive the clear/title/skin you want. Also gear carry runs are more often then skin/title carry runs. At the end of the trial 11 of the carriers trade the gear that dropped during the raid to you. There is no acc sharing involved or anything you just trade the before agreed amount of gold to the group and then you enter the trial together with them and get carried trough it.

How does that work for the no-death achievement? As far as I know you get teleported to boss encounters once they start so you can't really hang back and get carried by the other 11 people. You still need to know what to do and do it right not to die, and at that point why bother paying for a carry?

Coopersnow

Husan wrote: »

Coopersnow wrote: »

Husan wrote: »

Sorry, could someone explain how these carries work? I'm seeing the advertisements in almost all overland zones (mostly in Deshaan, Greenshade, Stormhaven, Craglorn, Western Skyrim), but I'm not sure how it works. Are you just supposed to hand them over your account and they will run the content on your account? That doesn't seem in accordance with the TOS, is it? Don't tell anyone, but I may or may not have skipped parts of it .

Also, what is the going price for those achievements? I'm asking for a friend ofcourse

Trial/ dungeon carries work like any normal trial. In this case you just pay gold to get in that "group" and guarantee to achive the clear/title/skin you want. Also gear carry runs are more often then skin/title carry runs. At the end of the trial 11 of the carriers trade the gear that dropped during the raid to you. There is no acc sharing involved or anything you just trade the before agreed amount of gold to the group and then you enter the trial together with them and get carried trough it.

How does that work for the no-death achievement? As far as I know you get teleported to boss encounters once they start so you can't really hang back and get carried by the other 11 people. You still need to know what to do and do it right not to die, and at that point why bother paying for a carry?

If its hard to survive or smt they gear you out in super tank sets that make you unkillable. Or if its not you just step away from danger and be smart enough not to run into big red aoe and spam shield of smt of needed.

Zer0_CooL

Btw. anyone selling skin runs on PS4 EU, or knows general prices? Asking for a friend...

VaranisArano

Its not against the TOS. Gina explicitly says so on page 8 of this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/503489/selling-carries-group-claims-gina-was-in-their-discord-and-that-it-is-sanctioned/p8

"While I don't recall joining anyone's Discord to discuss this, paying gold for carries is not against the TOS. If someone wants to pay a guild millions of gold to be taken through a dungeon or trial, that's up to them and doesn't break any rules. What is against the TOS is paying real world money for a carry, or utilizing an exploit to carry people through an area."

mairwen85

VaranisArano wrote: »

Its not against the TOS. Gina explicitly says so on page 8 of this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/503489/selling-carries-group-claims-gina-was-in-their-discord-and-that-it-is-sanctioned/p8

"While I don't recall joining anyone's Discord to discuss this, paying gold for carries is not against the TOS. If someone wants to pay a guild millions of gold to be taken through a dungeon or trial, that's up to them and doesn't break any rules. What is against the TOS is paying real world money for a carry, or utilizing an exploit to carry people through an area."

You are correct, of course, but OP isn't asking if it is, but stating that it should be against TOS. Personally I don't have any skin in this particular game ( see what I did there? ), and I firmly believe that if people are able and willing to do this, they should be allowed, it's all funny money anyway exactly as Gina puts it. It gets scummy only when account sharing and real world currency comes into play.

VaranisArano

mairwen85 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Its not against the TOS. Gina explicitly says so on page 8 of this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/503489/selling-carries-group-claims-gina-was-in-their-discord-and-that-it-is-sanctioned/p8

"While I don't recall joining anyone's Discord to discuss this, paying gold for carries is not against the TOS. If someone wants to pay a guild millions of gold to be taken through a dungeon or trial, that's up to them and doesn't break any rules. What is against the TOS is paying real world money for a carry, or utilizing an exploit to carry people through an area."

You are correct, of course, but OP isn't asking if it is, but stating that it should be against TOS. Personally I don't have any skin in this particular game ( see what I did there? ), and I firmly believe that if people are able and willing to do this, they should be allowed, it's all funny money anyway exactly as Gina puts it. It gets scummy only when account sharing and real world currency comes into play.

I understand that they think it should be, but they haven't given any grounds for that.

"Guilds are behaving badly (in my opinion) so let's remove the entire activity!"

As opposed to reporting the guilds for any bad behavior that breaks the TOS. Trimming out the misbehaving guilds ought to do a fair bit for the health of the community.