Cyrodil needs to be entirely reworked

Fawn4287

As its only finally becoming clear to the devs, as it has been clear to anyone who actually plays in cyrodil that [snip], AOE tests and CP tests even with destroying as much of the games core components as possible don’t actually fix anything because ball groups will find a work around. So since it can be concluded no half baked test is fixing it, it may as well be stripped to be as barebones as possible and be brought back from there. It has easily the worst, most inc

I suggest as a starting point Cyrodil have

No guards - guards especially in a keep spam as many aoes and give out as many effects as players, I am of course in PvP aren’t I? Why am I dealing with so many PvE elements who presence is definitely not helping to improve performance.

No large groups - This one is pretty self explanatory, when was the last time you saw a 2 or 3 man group causing your frames to drop to the point where the game became unplayable? Many zerglings will race to defend their easy skill free play mode but how much further will the game change and population decline to accomodate this handful of players? What will be the point of your 14 man radiating regen spamming group when the servers and campaigns are dead. Nearly every balance and change is literally to combat this one issue, why not tackle the issue head on and remove large groups? You are still on a faction and on the same team as everyone else on your faction, there is no need to share the heals and buffs of absolutely every person within your vicinity. I see me unable to fire off an ability or barswap as you spam radiating regen for the 5th time in a row as the greatest problem this game has ever faced.

Health Caps - there has been an ever increasing number of 60k+ health tanks running around cyrodil in sets like thews of the harbinger, which is its on problem in itself. The major issue is that if one of these players decides to sit on a resource they can essentially stop normal players from capping and a group of these can just continue to walk out and burn siege only because of the giant health pool they have, in battlegrounds half the game modes are essentially turned in to death match when these builds just play objective. Health should be hard capped at 30k in CP and 25k in no CP, in order to keep the game fast paced and stop it from devolving amy further in to troll tank cheese build playstyle any further.

Less siege - It is beyond me as to why the siege cap was increased, performance was getting significantly worse at the time, if anything there should be less siege available designed to kill players and more to destroy walls and doors. Half the time I’m getting hit by siege it’s usually from some zergling spamming it on me solo or in a 2 man whilst he fires it on his large group to debuff and damage the players they already outnumber.

[Edited to remove Bashing]

BangX

Lol, this would kill cyrodiil pvp and no one would want to play anymore. At launch, there was more then 600 players in cyrodiil with minimal lag. Removing guards, big groups and less siege will do more harm then good, Eso just needs better servers, that's it.

idk

Cyrodiil's performance used to be better when we had more players in a campaign (higher pop caps) and we also had more large groups back then. I remember one group that pulled pugs from zone had filled their fourth 20-man group and was starting on their fifth. Also, I doubt high health players are a significant source for Cyrodiil lag.

Also, I am guessing no guards would mean low pop campaigns will be great for solo players as they can take a keep without any resistance. Midnight runs through Cyrodiil of only one player can cap all the keeps easily while having less seige means longer battles to take a keep even when the attackers have overwhelming numbers. Some of the suggestion do not seem to take into account the big picture.

Cyrodiil, the game, has been poorly managed which is why performance has degraded so much over the years. We need solutions, not bandaids.

VaranisArano

More like "Please redesign Cyrodiil to fit my tastes."

I prefer "Please fix ESO so Cyrodiil works as it was intended."

JayKwellen

Lol "remove the guards". If you think PvDoor in cyrodiil is bad now it would be ten times worse if that were the case.

As it is now they're just a nuisance anyway and any decent solo player can still take a resource, outpost, or town. While I haven't personally solo'd a keep, usually because defenders always shows up before I can finish, I have taken plenty of them while playing with my partner just the two of us. Even once inside all you gotta do is pull all the guards into the back corner, nuke them down and thats it.

If anything the guards, or at least the keep guards, should be stronger if they want to serve any kind of actual purpose. They could even adjust in strength proportional to an alliances population or keep total vs the others. So say for example you're EP and have 0 bars while DC has three, the bigger the population gap or the lower the number of keeps remaining the stronger the guards become and the more abilities they use. If there was any sort of realism to it you'd think the guards would be in full on Helms Deep mode by the time they're outnumbered 5:1 and down to their last keep.

Probably wouldn't stop the 40 man zerg takinfrom smashing the 5 last EP players trying to defend their last keep, but it would at least give them a somewhat fighting chance to be more than just a speed bump.

HellaAverage

I honestly have always thought they just need to do away with the campaigns. Make open world, objective based, instance based, large scale pvp. Winning or losing because the other side is night capping or has more or less players is the opposite of competitive pvp in every sense of the word.

I would also do away with 3 teams. 1 faction v 1 faction like every other working pvp game in the world

idk

HellaAverage wrote: »

I honestly have always thought they just need to do away with the campaigns. Make open world, objective based, instance based, large scale pvp. Winning or losing because the other side is night capping or has more or less players is the opposite of competitive pvp in every sense of the word.

I would also do away with 3 teams. 1 faction v 1 faction like every other working pvp game in the world

Cyrodiil was never designed or intended to be a competitive PvP. The fact that there is no population control outside of the pop cap is a major hint about that. However, it still services its purpose.

SshadowSscale

Ok so nr 1. You really wanna make it easier to pvdoor than it already is?.... Ok then..... 2.players wil still serg surf and team up.... Won't change anything except maybe be a tiny bit more annoying to group..... 3.yup gankers are gonna love ya mate...... 4.why?the point of a castle siege is to... Uhm... Sieg the castle.... If you do not want siege there is bgs and ic go enjoy yourself

PhoenixGrey

VaranisArano wrote: »

More like "Please redesign Cyrodiil to fit my tastes."

Isn't that the point of any forum ?

Joinovikova

Cyro only need counter ability to ball AOE spam groups f.e. Inevitable Detonation should have lesss dmg less range but scale by 100% with each player hit so it will remove one place million AOE spam and not destroy group or solo play like these stupids test...

fred4

7.5 billion and potential access to MS expertise and server infrastructure ... some of that has to go to Cyrodiil, right?

NinchiTV

fred4 wrote: »

7.5 billion and potential access to MS expertise and server infrastructure ... some of that has to go to Cyrodiil, right?

Only if we complain enough and it gets traction from twitter and reddit

Palidon

The problem has always been with ZOS' servers. A problem they have refused to address. So they do their tests and continue to make Cyrodiil worse and worse. This latest test fiasco proves my point. I play on a daily basis and have noticed a decline in players in no cp pvp since the new testing began. When their is a large faction group It is mostly one big zerg fest now. I play a nb bow gank build so I do not care about the zergs. I welcome them. Can pick off a lot of the zerg fest players from their flanks and rear. If you are not in the forward path of the zerg there is no problem. The only thing that will fix their pathetic game performance is upgraded servers. Ya know what is really sad. Six years ago ZOS' big selling point was their massive PvP environment. Showed clips of massive battles and keep sieges. I played beta PvP and it never had the problems that players are facing now and had larger faction game populations. Something else that was cut to reduce their lousy performance.

Deathlord92

BangX wrote: »

Lol, this would kill cyrodiil pvp and no one would want to play anymore. At launch, there was more then 600 players in cyrodiil with minimal lag. Removing guards, big groups and less siege will do more harm then good, Eso just needs better servers, that's it.

I agree with this

puupaa

Maybe better servers would help. Maybe their servers are already as good as can be. Without knowing how their server system and code actually works, those are just guesses.

For example, it's possible that everything happening around Sejanus needs to be calculated in one thread(CPU core) in the system they are using because dividing the necessary calculations to multiple threads would only slow the calculations down. Or that it needs to be calculated in one CPU because dividing it to multiple CPUs would slow things down.

The root issue is, as far as I know, that the "server" suddenly needs to perform a lot more calculations than it can because of what the players do. This happens sometimes when a ballgroup coordinates an ultidump for example, resulting in their victims not being able to break their cc for 4 seconds or something. That is likely because it takes the "server" 4 seconds to sort through all the calculations required to parse what happened in that area.The alternative would be to ignore what the "server" cannot resolve in a timely manner, and that's not good either, there would be no lag but it would be random chance whether your skills worked or not.

Or maybe the issue really is inadequate pvp servers for ESO so that Fallout 76 can subsist, I don't know.

Miroka109

BangX wrote: »

At launch, there was more then 600 players in cyrodiil with minimal lag.

I remember a streamer saying they added an anti DDoS solution which crippled performance in cyrodiil, how much of that is true idk.

RebornV3x

I think reducing groups to 12 players might help a bit kinda break up these zergs

Tammany

RebornV3x wrote: »

I think reducing groups to 12 players might help a bit kinda break up these zergs

Zergs are not spamming x6 rap regen per player and nearly immortal to single target damage.

VaranisArano

Miroka109 wrote: »

BangX wrote: »

At launch, there was more then 600 players in cyrodiil with minimal lag.

I remember a streamer saying they added an anti DDoS solution which crippled performance in cyrodiil, how much of that is true idk.

I don't know about that, but ZOS did have to move a lot of functions that were originally client side over to server side after some very public exhibitions of what Cheat Engine could do. That was a big factor in deteriorating performance.

IAmIcehouse

puupaa wrote: »

Maybe better servers would help. Maybe their servers are already as good as can be. Without knowing how their server system and code actually works, those are just guesses.

For example, it's possible that everything happening around Sejanus needs to be calculated in one thread(CPU core) in the system they are using because dividing the necessary calculations to multiple threads would only slow the calculations down. Or that it needs to be calculated in one CPU because dividing it to multiple CPUs would slow things down.

The root issue is, as far as I know, that the "server" suddenly needs to perform a lot more calculations than it can because of what the players do. This happens sometimes when a ballgroup coordinates an ultidump for example, resulting in their victims not being able to break their cc for 4 seconds or something. That is likely because it takes the "server" 4 seconds to sort through all the calculations required to parse what happened in that area.The alternative would be to ignore what the "server" cannot resolve in a timely manner, and that's not good either, there would be no lag but it would be random chance whether your skills worked or not.

Or maybe the issue really is inadequate pvp servers for ESO so that Fallout 76 can subsist, I don't know.

Exactly. The "get better servers" mantra is getting old. Because something doesn't perform well, the community blames cheap infrastructure. We have no idea what Cyrodil is running on, and more importantly, what is actually going on on the physical machine. There are many problems that throwing money at just doesn't fix.

More often than not, performance issues are related to poor/unscalable design from months/years prior (at the time, they were fine, but as things in the game change, they can no longer keep up--but that has little/nothing to do with the physical machines).

The developers are the ones who are able to solve these issues. The best we can do is provide feedback on what works/ doesn't work.