Tanks are forced to use back bar staff

Starlight_Whisper

Simply because applying off balance is easier with staff then bashing. Also, it's far cheaper on sustain. They should give tanks cheaper bash or remove it from blockade of shock

redspecter23

It's also much easier to keep high uptime on crusher when a boss is standing in a wall of elements and you get the full effect (instead of half on a 1 handed weapon).

There are many reasons why staff is a preferable back bar weapon on tanks. You'd have to nerf a lot of things to get tanks back to 1h+ shield on 2 bars.

Starlight_Whisper

redspecter23 wrote: »

It's also much easier to keep high uptime on crusher when a boss is standing in a wall of elements and you get the full effect (instead of half on a 1 handed weapon).

There are many reasons why staff is a preferable back bar weapon on tanks. You'd have to nerf a lot of things to get tanks back to 1h+ shield on 2 bars.

There's other skills that could proc that depending on class used. Also next patch penetration gaps with a lot buffs making it easy to over pen.

robpr

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

It's also much easier to keep high uptime on crusher when a boss is standing in a wall of elements and you get the full effect (instead of half on a 1 handed weapon).

There are many reasons why staff is a preferable back bar weapon on tanks. You'd have to nerf a lot of things to get tanks back to 1h+ shield on 2 bars.

There's other skills that could proc that depending on class used. Also next patch penetration gaps with a lot buffs making it easy to over pen.

Class skills cant proc enchantments so class is irrevelant. And pen changes more likely eliminate Alkosh than Crusher. Tanks need 2H weapon, and since staff offer better debuffs than 2H or Bow, tanks will use them. If Bow could provide Brittle, Concuss or Off-balance, tanks will use it instead staff.

kathandira

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

Simply because applying off balance is easier with staff then bashing. Also, it's far cheaper on sustain. They should give tanks cheaper bash or remove it from blockade of shock

There are plenty of Off Balance sources from DPS. A Tank applying it is nice, but hardly necessary.

Astrid

kathandira wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

Simply because applying off balance is easier with staff then bashing. Also, it's far cheaper on sustain. They should give tanks cheaper bash or remove it from blockade of shock

There are plenty of Off Balance sources from DPS. A Tank applying it is nice, but hardly necessary.

Depends on your DPS. Off balance comes from your supports usually.

Alidel

I use staff on my tank purely to have easy access to regen magic with ha. If you wanna go with 2h or bow - you can do it. Unless you wanna do highly optimised score runs, you do you. Just keep yourself alive and boss taunted.

Sealish

I always back bar a lightning staff when healing since I was under the impression that Off Balance through Blockade was part of my responsibility.

Danksta

robpr wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

It's also much easier to keep high uptime on crusher when a boss is standing in a wall of elements and you get the full effect (instead of half on a 1 handed weapon).

There are many reasons why staff is a preferable back bar weapon on tanks. You'd have to nerf a lot of things to get tanks back to 1h+ shield on 2 bars.

There's other skills that could proc that depending on class used. Also next patch penetration gaps with a lot buffs making it easy to over pen.

Class skills cant proc enchantments so class is irrevelant. And pen changes more likely eliminate Alkosh than Crusher. Tanks need 2H weapon, and since staff offer better debuffs than 2H or Bow, tanks will use them. If Bow could provide Brittle, Concuss or Off-balance, tanks will use it instead staff.

Alkosh is an AoE debuff and crusher is single target. Why would you eliminate Alkosh?

redspecter23

Danksta wrote: »

robpr wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

It's also much easier to keep high uptime on crusher when a boss is standing in a wall of elements and you get the full effect (instead of half on a 1 handed weapon).

There are many reasons why staff is a preferable back bar weapon on tanks. You'd have to nerf a lot of things to get tanks back to 1h+ shield on 2 bars.

There's other skills that could proc that depending on class used. Also next patch penetration gaps with a lot buffs making it easy to over pen.

Class skills cant proc enchantments so class is irrevelant. And pen changes more likely eliminate Alkosh than Crusher. Tanks need 2H weapon, and since staff offer better debuffs than 2H or Bow, tanks will use them. If Bow could provide Brittle, Concuss or Off-balance, tanks will use it instead staff.

Alkosh is an AoE debuff and crusher is single target. Why would you eliminate Alkosh?

If you eliminate crusher, you replace it with?

Eliminating Alkosh opens up another 5 piece potentially which could be used to increase group dps. Yolo off the top of my head or some other group utility set. I'm not sure you can replace crusher with anything that would compare.

Apox

heals usually run lightning staff which procs OB the same as tanks. hell you could run a bow or dual wield if you want to proc your enchants. i've seen tanks dual wield back bar for vSS tanking for deadly cloak. its also entirely viable to run resto backbar in 3 dps groups to proc sets like Olo

tanks usually default lightning staff for higher chance to proc concussed.

llBlack_Heartll

I think if ZOS changed 1 skill and added to the S&B Passive 's to allow for a staff, it would be much better for Tanks and will also allow DPS to regain the Frost Staff.

Passive - Fortress - WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED - Reduces the cost of One Hand and Shield abilities by 15% and reduces the cost of blocking by 36%
WITH A DESTRUCTION STAFF EQUIPPED - Reduce the cost of blocking by 36% and the amount blocked by 20%.

Passive - Deflect Bolts - WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED - Increases the amount of damage you can block from projectiles and ranged attacks by 14%.
WITH A DESTRUCTION STAFF EQUIPPED - Blocking cost Magicka instead of Stamina.

WITH ONE HAND WEAPON AND SHIELD EQUIPPED - Power Bash - Morph - Power Slam - Bash the Air full-force with your shield creating powerful winds, dealing xxx Physical Damage to all enemies in the target area every 1 sec (AOE 10s)
WITH A DESTRUCTION STAFF EQUIPPED - Bash the Ground with the full force of your staff to create an elemental barrier in front of you, dealing xxx Magic Damage to enemies in the target area every 1 second. Fire staff deals fire damage, lightning staff deals lightning damage and frost deals frost damage.

Danksta

redspecter23 wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

robpr wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

It's also much easier to keep high uptime on crusher when a boss is standing in a wall of elements and you get the full effect (instead of half on a 1 handed weapon).

There are many reasons why staff is a preferable back bar weapon on tanks. You'd have to nerf a lot of things to get tanks back to 1h+ shield on 2 bars.

There's other skills that could proc that depending on class used. Also next patch penetration gaps with a lot buffs making it easy to over pen.

Class skills cant proc enchantments so class is irrevelant. And pen changes more likely eliminate Alkosh than Crusher. Tanks need 2H weapon, and since staff offer better debuffs than 2H or Bow, tanks will use them. If Bow could provide Brittle, Concuss or Off-balance, tanks will use it instead staff.

Alkosh is an AoE debuff and crusher is single target. Why would you eliminate Alkosh?

If you eliminate crusher, you replace it with?

Eliminating Alkosh opens up another 5 piece potentially which could be used to increase group dps. Yolo off the top of my head or some other group utility set. I'm not sure you can replace crusher with anything that would compare.

I get that but crusher is basically useless in trash fights. I guess on PC you can switch back and forth, on console I'm sure Alkosh will get the most play, other than vCR and VAS maybe.

Icaruzs

It's mainly the healer job to apply off balance, every healer build have a lightining staff and wall of shock. Tanks use lightining staff in trials to easy the healer job a bit.

My sorc dps runs double lightining staff and he applies off balance a lot. Wardens can do that too with the bird. Necro tanks can do that too with the scythe.

On my warden tank i run an ice staff for the minor main, root, and magicka block.

You can run a tank with bow or a two handed weapon in the backbar if you dislike staves, both weapons have good aoe dots with high uptime for the crusher enchant or keep with sword and shield in both bars and slot the bash morph that have a dot, the bash dot is rly short so me aware of this.

idk

redspecter23 wrote: »

It's also much easier to keep high uptime on crusher when a boss is standing in a wall of elements and you get the full effect (instead of half on a 1 handed weapon).

There are many reasons why staff is a preferable back bar weapon on tanks. You'd have to nerf a lot of things to get tanks back to 1h+ shield on 2 bars.

This on all points. Especially that it is preferable, not forced. Every tank has a choice as to how they will gear. Ofc, that choice can affect who they can run with if they are serious about tanking trials. To that point, tanks who run with serious, well organized, trial groups tend to run what the group/raid leader asks them to run.

For most other groups you can run what you want to run, but one is forcing anyone to do anything.

Stinkyremy

You know EVERY tank will be forced to use ice staff next patch because of the brittle debuff only coming from ice staff. Maybe meta trial groups might have healer run frost staff but I doubt it.
Frost staff tri passive which makes you block with magika can get a tank killed easy.

idk

Stinkyremy wrote: »

You know EVERY tank will be forced to use ice staff next patch because of the brittle debuff only coming from ice staff. Maybe meta trial groups might have healer run frost staff but I doubt it.
Frost staff tri passive which makes you block with magika can get a tank killed easy.

In well-organized groups, the tank already runs a staff. Currently, we do not put points into the passives to where magicka is used for blocking. Unless the changes require points into that passive for the new debuff then I see no reason for that to change.

FrancisCrawford

Sealish wrote: »

I always back bar a lightning staff when healing since I was under the impression that Off Balance through Blockade was part of my responsibility.

When I heal dungeons on a warden I provide Off Balance and Minor Vulnerability through class skills. So I imagine I'll be changing to an ice staff for them, if I can successfully farm what I want.

Possible exception: FIghts/groups where I feel the interrupt from Crushing Shock is really important.

zvavi

You are not forced to do anything.
Trials:
There are more supports than you. As long as it is already in group you don't have to run more.

Dungeons:
Lightning staff - As long as there is no -mag sorc-, or -mag dk using force pulse with charged staff-, concussion uptime is too low to call lightning staff off balance "consistent", you will get higher uptime from dodge CP.
PS healer runs lightning.

Ice staff - brittle is not forcing tanks to run it, since you have to apply chilled consistently. The only tank setup in which brittle can be applied properly is ice frontbar setup on warden with charged trait. So u don't have to run ice.

Crusher enchantment - can be applied properly with bow too. Maybe 2h as well (not sure about this one). So again, not forced to run a destro staff.

Conclusion:
You are not forced to run a destruction staff.

BejaProphet

In addition the game presenting cost/gain choices in gear shouldn’t be labeled, “forcing.” Its only the demand for what is perceived as meta that forces anything.

Shantu

The change to sword and shield that "forced" tanks to use alternative back bar setups to maintain crusher uptimes was just plain dumb. I enjoy tanking and am pretty decent at it, but I still run the dual sword and shield setups. I run vet content just fine. If you don't want me in your prog group, I'm perfectly ok with that. People go overboard with min-max schemes. I've run a lot of vet prog groups over the years and failing to clear content never comes down to a tank not running the crusher enchant on a back bar staff.

The point is, no one forces you to do anything. If someone tries and you don't like it, find another group to run with.

dazee

I 100% agree on tanks having cheaper bash. leave wall of elements alone.