Blood Ritual is kinda worthless

VioletDracolich

Design wise they're the exact same wings use on different abilities. The DK is likely using those wings to reflect stuff back at people. Kinda funny actually. I would give you that Swarming Scion could have wings, it would be more interesting. However DKs actually use their's.

Phaedryn

Seems a lot of people want to turns vamps into a class. Honestly, the way WW works is precisely why I don't have one. I much prefer that vampirism is a toolset on top of my class rather than replacing it. My NB doesn't stop being a NB just because he is also a Stage 4 vamp.

The ONE thing I would love to see addressed? Popping in and out of invis while sprinting because I might have hit a pebble....or something.

Vevvev

Phaedryn wrote: »

Seems a lot of people want to turns vamps into a class. Honestly, the way WW works is precisely why I don't have one. I much prefer that vampirism is a toolset on top of my class rather than replacing it. My NB doesn't stop being a NB just because he is also a Stage 4 vamp.

Well our view would be different if the devs were not trying to make it out to be played like a new class with the non-vampire cost increase. They don't want you taking it for one or two abilities and the passives, but the whole entire kit otherwise you get punished for it.

Phaedryn wrote: »

The ONE thing I would love to see addressed? Popping in and out of invis while sprinting because I might have hit a pebble....or something.

Now this I agree with but it'll take redesigning how the sprint, falling, and recovery animations work in the game engine. I hope it gets fixed but one thing I learned is if you jump before you fall off something you will land and keep on sprinting, granted the fall isn't too high.

Phaedryn

Vevvev wrote: »

They don't want you taking it for one or two abilities and the passives, but the whole entire kit otherwise you get punished for it.

I guess I am confused. I have 2 Vamp characters and in both cases I take them, almost exclusively, for passives and maybe an active in special scenarios. I never felt punished for it.

Cronopoly

I understand the mechanic of Blood Ritual's initial intent years ago. The 7 day timer no longer makes any sense.

The made up limitation is ridiculous in lore as well.

Vevvev

Phaedryn wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

They don't want you taking it for one or two abilities and the passives, but the whole entire kit otherwise you get punished for it.

I guess I am confused. I have 2 Vamp characters and in both cases I take them, almost exclusively, for passives and maybe an active in special scenarios. I never felt punished for it.

Its in the non-vampire cost increase debuff. Even while actively using the spammable I have taken a sharp nosedive when it comes to sustain on my magicka dragonknight unless I use Blood for Blood, which isn't exactly an ability you want to be using in group content. Arterial Burst only becomes better than Flame Whip at vampire stages 3-4 in terms of cost, but then everything else costs 8-12% more just to make the spammable better.

Now there is something to be said about sustain increases through decreased time to kill. Yes, that is a thing and the one thing vampire does have is a TON of spell and weapon damage boosts. The problem comes when fighting tanky enemy players, world bosses, and other things that take so long to kill the sustain debuff begins to become a real issue.

Phaedryn

Vevvev wrote: »

Phaedryn wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

They don't want you taking it for one or two abilities and the passives, but the whole entire kit otherwise you get punished for it.

I guess I am confused. I have 2 Vamp characters and in both cases I take them, almost exclusively, for passives and maybe an active in special scenarios. I never felt punished for it.

Its in the non-vampire cost increase debuff. Even while actively using the spammable I have taken a sharp nosedive when it comes to sustain on my magicka dragonknight unless I use Blood for Blood, which isn't exactly an ability you want to be using in group content. Arterial Burst only becomes better than Flame Whip at vampire stages 3-4 in terms of cost, but then everything else costs 8-12% more just to make the spammable better.

Now there is something to be said about sustain increases through decreased time to kill. Yes, that is a thing and the one thing vampire does have is a TON of spell and weapon damage boosts. The problem comes when fighting tanky enemy players, world bosses, and other things that take so long to kill the sustain debuff begins to become a real issue.

Ok, I will give you the sustain issue in general. I understand that a couple of patches back vamps actually had a sustain passive (it was before my return to the game)? MY DK tank runs as a Stage 3/4 constantly (mainly for Undeath but also using Mist Form), and if it wasn't for the Medicinal Use passive I would probably struggle a bit with sustain.

That negative could defiantly use looking at.

Vevvev

Phaedryn wrote: »

Ok, I will give you the sustain issue in general. I understand that a couple of patches back vamps actually had a sustain passive (it was before my return to the game)? MY DK tank runs as a Stage 3/4 constantly (mainly for Undeath but also using Mist Form), and if it wasn't for the Medicinal Use passive I would probably struggle a bit with sustain.

That negative could defiantly use looking at.

It used to be higher, but the vampire cost decrease was also lower. If my memory serves me correctly on the Greymoor PTS the stage 4 non-vampire cost increase went as high as 20% and the vampire cost decrease was over 40 something percent.

When I run my magDK vampire I always have Burning Embers slotted to take advantage of the combustion passive since every single flame status effect proc gives me 500 magicka. Then I run Leap on the front bar since at stage 4 it costs as much as 140 ultimate and can help me proc Battle roar often. I do find myself chugging a lot of potions so I use the Clever Alchemist set for the potion boost and the extra health to spend on Blood Frenzy and increase the effectiveness of Undeath.

I've done my best to work around it but the non-vampire cost increase really hurts x.x

Phaedryn

Vevvev wrote: »

Phaedryn wrote: »

Ok, I will give you the sustain issue in general. I understand that a couple of patches back vamps actually had a sustain passive (it was before my return to the game)? MY DK tank runs as a Stage 3/4 constantly (mainly for Undeath but also using Mist Form), and if it wasn't for the Medicinal Use passive I would probably struggle a bit with sustain.

That negative could defiantly use looking at.

It used to be higher, but the vampire cost decrease was also lower. If my memory serves me correctly on the Greymoor PTS the stage 4 non-vampire cost increase went as high as 20% and the vampire cost decrease was over 40 something percent.

When I run my magDK vampire I always have Burning Embers slotted to take advantage of the combustion passive since every single flame status effect proc gives me 500 magicka. Then I run Leap on the front bar since at stage 4 it costs as much as 140 ultimate and can help me proc Battle roar often. I do find myself chugging a lot of potions so I use the Clever Alchemist set for the potion boost and the extra health to spend on Blood Frenzy and increase the effectiveness of Undeath.

I've done my best to work around it but the non-vampire cost increase really hurts x.x

I think part of the reason I don't mind as much is both of my Vamps got bit at very low level (level 3-ish) and I leveled them at Stage 3 or 4 constantly...so the cost increase was my "normal" and I never really considered it much.

Vevvev

Phaedryn wrote: »

I think part of the reason I don't mind as much is both of my Vamps got bit at very low level (level 3-ish) and I leveled them at Stage 3 or 4 constantly...so the cost increase was my "normal" and I never really considered it much.

Yeah that'd do it. Its a night and day difference and I cured and infected my character several times during a few of my tests to see just how bad it was. The sustain nerf hit the hardest in no-cp areas though with me running out magicka within 1-2 minutes. Only reason I could stay in the fight was Battle Roar and the occasional reprieve my team mates gave me which allowed me to heavy attack with the Restoration Staff.

Vayln_Ninetails

VioletDracolich wrote: »

Design wise they're the exact same wings use on different abilities. The DK is likely using those wings to reflect stuff back at people. Kinda funny actually. I would give you that Swarming Scion could have wings, it would be more interesting. However DKs actually use their's.

And the original wings on the Scion were given by taking the swarming morph. So therefore it makes sense with your design theory.

Also you say they tend to remove things the char doesn't use, but I would argue wings on a vamp-lord-like creature makes sense no matter which way you slice it. Even if we don't use them. Cosmetically, it would complete the look.

They weren't removed for that reason, they revealed on the live stream they were removed because the lead narrative designer said so. Somehow it conflicted because we weren't vamp lords, we just looked like one. (really, I find them shoe-horning scions on us to be the main issue here. We should be a vampire lord.)

VioletDracolich

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

VioletDracolich wrote: »

Design wise they're the exact same wings use on different abilities. The DK is likely using those wings to reflect stuff back at people. Kinda funny actually. I would give you that Swarming Scion could have wings, it would be more interesting. However DKs actually use their's.

And the original wings on the Scion were given by taking the swarming morph. So therefore it makes sense with your design theory.

Also you say they tend to remove things the char doesn't use, but I would argue wings on a vamp-lord-like creature makes sense no matter which way you slice it. Even if we don't use them. Cosmetically, it would complete the look.

They weren't removed for that reason, they revealed on the live stream they were removed because the lead narrative designer said so. Somehow it conflicted because we weren't vamp lords, we just looked like one. (really, I find them shoe-horning scions on us to be the main issue here. We should be a vampire lord.)

See it was removed for a reason. That said, I do kinda not like direction they took. Oh well.

Vayln_Ninetails

VioletDracolich wrote: »

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

VioletDracolich wrote: »

Design wise they're the exact same wings use on different abilities. The DK is likely using those wings to reflect stuff back at people. Kinda funny actually. I would give you that Swarming Scion could have wings, it would be more interesting. However DKs actually use their's.

And the original wings on the Scion were given by taking the swarming morph. So therefore it makes sense with your design theory.

Also you say they tend to remove things the char doesn't use, but I would argue wings on a vamp-lord-like creature makes sense no matter which way you slice it. Even if we don't use them. Cosmetically, it would complete the look.

They weren't removed for that reason, they revealed on the live stream they were removed because the lead narrative designer said so. Somehow it conflicted because we weren't vamp lords, we just looked like one. (really, I find them shoe-horning scions on us to be the main issue here. We should be a vampire lord.)

See it was removed for a reason. That said, I do kinda not like direction they took. Oh well.

Yeah, but the reason is very dumb and doesn't hold up logically.

I too dislike the direction they took. All they had to do was just copy vampire lord from Skyrim and make it better. Aka, give us what the NPCs got.... They're more vampiric than we are.

Nephthys

Beautiful charismatic vampires have been replace with useless and ugly bloodfiends. It wasn't an overhaul it was genocide.

hakan

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

hakan wrote: »

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

hakan wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Maybe have it where feeding on a target heals you to full health? Old feed used to heal you and since the new feed can only be used on weak NPCs out of combat a full heal would be fine.

It would also be inconsistent with the current system because as the way it stands, feeding stops you from healing so why would you actively heal by feeding?

what??? thats not true. and in old games hp regen was disabled too. vamp can heal thru dmg, it did before and still can. bfb nerf was because it removed the sustain part in pve

It is true. Feeding DOES stop you from healing. The more you feed, you get to a point to where your health doesn't regen.

Lol....

regen isnt healing in MMO sense. in old game you didnt regenerate in daylight, this is how they implemented it here.

and it doesnt matter if you dont build anyway i dont understand why you guys so stuck on this.

Still means less healing over all and natural regen is pretty important.

We're stuck on it because new vampire is objectively trash and the downsides are not worth its bonuses at all. The skill line is poorly designed, poor visuals, and poor creativity. The passives are pretty alright though, aside from the weaknesses. If they want to keep these level of weaknesses, vamps need at least one more passive buff. Currently it's a ratio of 3-1 in terms of buffs/weaknesses based on stage.

stuck part on my comment was about health regen. as i said unless you get more regen for hp, it doesnt do anything. 230hp regen doesnt worth anything.

i agree on the other parts like why we even have skill cost up time. the skills you get arent that good maybe the mist gives some classes sonething that they otherwise cant get. there are already 20percent more damage with dawnbreaker and silver shards also more damage with fire abilities against vampires already.

Vayln_Ninetails

hakan wrote: »

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

hakan wrote: »

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

hakan wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Maybe have it where feeding on a target heals you to full health? Old feed used to heal you and since the new feed can only be used on weak NPCs out of combat a full heal would be fine.

It would also be inconsistent with the current system because as the way it stands, feeding stops you from healing so why would you actively heal by feeding?

what??? thats not true. and in old games hp regen was disabled too. vamp can heal thru dmg, it did before and still can. bfb nerf was because it removed the sustain part in pve

It is true. Feeding DOES stop you from healing. The more you feed, you get to a point to where your health doesn't regen.

Lol....

regen isnt healing in MMO sense. in old game you didnt regenerate in daylight, this is how they implemented it here.

and it doesnt matter if you dont build anyway i dont understand why you guys so stuck on this.

Still means less healing over all and natural regen is pretty important.

We're stuck on it because new vampire is objectively trash and the downsides are not worth its bonuses at all. The skill line is poorly designed, poor visuals, and poor creativity. The passives are pretty alright though, aside from the weaknesses. If they want to keep these level of weaknesses, vamps need at least one more passive buff. Currently it's a ratio of 3-1 in terms of buffs/weaknesses based on stage.

stuck part on my comment was about health regen. as i said unless you get more regen for hp, it doesnt do anything. 230hp regen doesnt worth anything.

i agree on the other parts like why we even have skill cost up time. the skills you get arent that good maybe the mist gives some classes sonething that they otherwise cant get. there are already 20percent more damage with dawnbreaker and silver shards also more damage with fire abilities against vampires already.

That's fair enough! I getcha.

Yeah, and the worst part with mist is it isn't even that good because it's not faster than sprint. (elusive) and blood mist is just bad. But it is easily the most useful out of the skills for some classes.

Yeah vamps get these in terms of passives:

Negatives:
no hp regen
extra costs
extra fire damage
extra fighter guild skill damage

Positives:
Vamp ability cost decrease


They at least need ONE or two more positives. Like at stage 4 you get 10% extra unique movement speed. Or your vamp abilities do more damage based on stage. Or your vamp abilities get extra effects based on stage.

There is SO much potential for stuff to do with stages, ZOS just doesn't want to utilize it.