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Just make ball groups in cyro bannable already
electriczzz
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I wouldn't give a damn about them if they wouldn't make the entire game unplayable for everyone with all their resto staff spamms and aoes left and right.
I see that the tests so far don't make a difference and the moment one ball group enters the field it's nearly unplayable for almost everyone involved, why can't ZOS see that it's not the individual players who cause the lags but connect it to the so called"organized groups"? I love cyrodiil but the state it's in every day past a certain hour is emberassing.
They should've placed tests in place to prevent big groups from stacking and spamming the same stuff instead of putting cooldowns on aoes. It's so infuriating having to wait 3-10 seconds after using a leap/charge ( if they even go off) for the damage to arrive and in the meantime can't deal damage because everything is locked until the damage registered.
I see that the tests so far don't make a difference and the moment one ball group enters the field it's nearly unplayable for almost everyone involved, why can't ZOS see that it's not the individual players who cause the lags but connect it to the so called"organized groups"? I love cyrodiil but the state it's in every day past a certain hour is emberassing.
They should've placed tests in place to prevent big groups from stacking and spamming the same stuff instead of putting cooldowns on aoes. It's so infuriating having to wait 3-10 seconds after using a leap/charge ( if they even go off) for the damage to arrive and in the meantime can't deal damage because everything is locked until the damage registered.
14
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pauld1_ESO✭✭✭✭electriczzz wrote: »I wouldn't give a damn about them if they wouldn't make the entire game unplayable for everyone with all their resto staff spamms and aoes left and right.
I see that the tests so far don't make a difference and the moment one ball group enters the field it's nearly unplayable for almost everyone involved, why can't ZOS see that it's not the individual players who cause the lags but connect it to the so called"organized groups"? I love cyrodiil but the state it's in every day past a certain hour is emberassing.
They should've placed tests in place to prevent big groups from stacking and spamming the same stuff instead of putting cooldowns on aoes. It's so infuriating having to wait 3-10 seconds after using a leap/charge ( if they even go off) for the damage to arrive and in the meantime can't deal damage because everything is locked until the damage registered.
I don't know how you ban people for team work, but I do agree it is a problem. Whenever these groups come around my latency doubles. It is easy to avoid the giant red blob of death, but since they lag you out many times you get caught in it anyway. It's really stupid.
In the end this game has a crap infrastructure, it's all ZOS's fault, not ball groups.16 -
Pevey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Cyrodiil was not designed for duels, though. The whole point is large scale warfare. Legions, aka organized ball groups, were part of the design. There are duels for 1v1 and battlegrounds for small scale.Edited by Pevey on September 27, 2020 2:02PM23 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Add IC and the sewers for small scale high risk fighting.Cyrodiil was not designed for duels, though. The whole point is large scale warfare. Legions, aka organized ball groups, were part of the design. There are duels for 1v1 and battlegrounds for small scale.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.3 -
EmEm_Oh✭✭✭✭✭electriczzz wrote: »I wouldn't give a damn about them if they wouldn't make the entire game unplayable for everyone with all their resto staff spamms and aoes left and right.
I see that the tests so far don't make a difference and the moment one ball group enters the field it's nearly unplayable for almost everyone involved, why can't ZOS see that it's not the individual players who cause the lags but connect it to the so called"organized groups"? I love cyrodiil but the state it's in every day past a certain hour is emberassing.
They should've placed tests in place to prevent big groups from stacking and spamming the same stuff instead of putting cooldowns on aoes. It's so infuriating having to wait 3-10 seconds after using a leap/charge ( if they even go off) for the damage to arrive and in the meantime can't deal damage because everything is locked until the damage registered.
It's only certain groups and those certain groups are using "questionable" helping tools. These aren't addons. These are software tools that make much easier to use.multiple skills in the absolute shortest time possible.
Most ball groups...I have no issues. It's only a few....5 -
electriczzz✭✭✭I'm not talking about 1v1 duels, I do love my large scale zerg battles don't missunderstand me, I have issues with these Legions aka ogranized ball groups, I've just been involved in a huge Alessia bridge fight, we all know it and it ran perfectly fine ( high latency and fps drops obviously) but then sometimes there are 10+ people stacked together roaming around on walls or inside outposts and it's simply unplayable, tell me how cyro has been designed around people who stack on crown and spam aoes?2
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esotoon✭✭✭✭✭
✭electriczzz wrote: »I wouldn't give a damn about them if they wouldn't make the entire game unplayable for everyone with all their resto staff spamms and aoes left and right.
I see that the tests so far don't make a difference and the moment one ball group enters the field it's nearly unplayable for almost everyone involved, why can't ZOS see that it's not the individual players who cause the lags but connect it to the so called"organized groups"? I love cyrodiil but the state it's in every day past a certain hour is emberassing.
They should've placed tests in place to prevent big groups from stacking and spamming the same stuff instead of putting cooldowns on aoes. It's so infuriating having to wait 3-10 seconds after using a leap/charge ( if they even go off) for the damage to arrive and in the meantime can't deal damage because everything is locked until the damage registered.
Why are you wanting fellow players, who maximise the potential of the skills, mechanics and gear available to them to, perform as a team, play well within the ToS, and who pay exactly the same as you do in order to play the game banned, instead of asking ZOS (the people who put the game mechanics together to allow ball groups to dominate), to actually balance the game?
Edited by esotoon on September 27, 2020 2:20PM6 -
electriczzz✭✭✭electriczzz wrote: »I wouldn't give a damn about them if they wouldn't make the entire game unplayable for everyone with all their resto staff spamms and aoes left and right.
I see that the tests so far don't make a difference and the moment one ball group enters the field it's nearly unplayable for almost everyone involved, why can't ZOS see that it's not the individual players who cause the lags but connect it to the so called"organized groups"? I love cyrodiil but the state it's in every day past a certain hour is emberassing.
They should've placed tests in place to prevent big groups from stacking and spamming the same stuff instead of putting cooldowns on aoes. It's so infuriating having to wait 3-10 seconds after using a leap/charge ( if they even go off) for the damage to arrive and in the meantime can't deal damage because everything is locked until the damage registered.
Why are you wanting players, who maximise the potential of the skills, mechanics and gear available to them to, perform as a team, play well within the ToS, and who pay exactly the same as you do in order to play the game banned, instead of asking ZOS, the people who put the game mechanics together to allow ball groups to dominate, to actually balance the game?
[snip] Let's be realistic here, it also has nothing to do with skills if hardly anyone can fight back. Standing there trying to get off a poison injection LA is sometimes already tricky with the delay and not to mention charges and leaps not going off and just standing there being an easy target is beyond my skill level. These groups are part of the problem that cyro is a mess spaming aoes doesn't show skills nor teamplay, [snip]
[Edited to remove Bashing]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on September 27, 2020 3:34PM2 -
xshatox✭✭✭✭electriczzz wrote: »I wouldn't give a damn about them if they wouldn't make the entire game unplayable for everyone with all their resto staff spamms and aoes left and right.
I see that the tests so far don't make a difference and the moment one ball group enters the field it's nearly unplayable for almost everyone involved, why can't ZOS see that it's not the individual players who cause the lags but connect it to the so called"organized groups"? I love cyrodiil but the state it's in every day past a certain hour is emberassing.
They should've placed tests in place to prevent big groups from stacking and spamming the same stuff instead of putting cooldowns on aoes. It's so infuriating having to wait 3-10 seconds after using a leap/charge ( if they even go off) for the damage to arrive and in the meantime can't deal damage because everything is locked until the damage registered.
Why are you wanting fellow players, who maximise the potential of the skills, mechanics and gear available to them to, perform as a team, play well within the ToS, and who pay exactly the same as you do in order to play the game banned, instead of asking ZOS (the people who put the game mechanics together to allow ball groups to dominate), to actually balance the game?
He did ask to banned the ballgroup if zos cant fix the increased latency around them. Not a pretty valid request and highly unlikely will result in actionable answer from zos.0 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Cyrodil used to have a much bigger population with much less lag. The problem is years of buggy patches they never fix and server issues. Stop with the toxicity blaming other players when Zos is at fault.
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nukk3r✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah, of course ball groups are the culprit here. There's no lag at all when two faction stacks meet near the scroll or hammer.
/s
My skills don't fire off when two zergs collide with no ball groups in sight.2 -
JamieAubrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ball groups are THE problem, week one they where all farming in IC and the lag was decent, as soon as they arrived for week 2 then well
PC/EU2 -
Gythral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Please fix the servers....
“Be as a tower, that, firmly set,
Shakes not its top for any blast that blows!”
Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy6 -
Charon_on_Vacation✭✭✭✭just change magicka detonation to effect players only, buff the damage an absurd amount and give the ram a buff to negate the damage so you can still siege.0
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nukk3r✭✭✭✭✭
✭JamieAubrey wrote: »Ball groups are THE problem, week one they where all farming in IC and the lag was decent, as soon as they arrived for week 2 then well
PC/EU
Guess who else arrived at week 2? Everyone. One day during week one PCEU Gray Host was at one bar for each alliance at prime time, of course there wasn't any lag.2 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Those 12 man ball groups in the trials should be banned, too. Let people gank those bosses.
How dare they allow organized group play in an MMOG!RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.4 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭The paradox thing is that they work only because of the lag ... lagging everyone else to death, so to say.3 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ban people for using the abilities the game gives them, and playing in groups in what is meant to be a group pvp area.
Ok.1 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭What is sad is zos is looking for an easy fix, when the issue has deeper mechanical and game design issues.
Why do players even accumulate in 50+ man groups?- no objectives to separate? Resources useless at keep seiges.
- win by numbers?
- benefits for grouping with less people?
- combat dynamics?
- AP system is poorly designed to focus everyone into keep takes instead of promoting good combat
- Campaign scoreboard at fault?
- Group size? Probs wont change much but makes it harder to amass
Why is combat balled up instead of spread out?- Little anti numbers mechanics left: proxy bombing is all thats there?
- What classes still have viable skills that scale with enemy players?
- Seige meta? Persistent catapult ground dot effects cause way more calculations that say a balista.
- Breach meta requires larger and larger ball groups to survive?
- Stack on crown?
Combat mechanic changes?- Why are there so many aoe cc forms readily available
- Why are there little long duration counters for cc like snares/roots
- What distinguishes using a spammable on one player vs the same ability cost for an aoe that could hit 10+
- Why doesn't aoe scale with amount of players hit? Why is it flat damage in the first place?
- Why were the limits on how many dots/hots groups can generate removed from pvp? Why do all dots/hots stack?
- Should group buffs and heals only go to group members? possibly at a certain group size? 5+? Toggle option?
I mean we can go on about a million things that are mainly an issue since pvp hasn't been looked at since the IC days and has slowly killed itself over the years. I remember when the true end game was pvp back when campaigns would be pop locked with little to no lag for hours on end. Massive allessia bridge fights. The ability to sneak down and around to fight small man fights in the back. Idk this game used to have a massive draw to it pvp wise, but hey i guess nobody in zos figured out how to make it draw in money.3 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭What is sad is zos is looking for an easy fix, when the issue has deeper mechanical and game design issues.
Why do players even accumulate in 50+ man groups?- no objectives to separate? Resources useless at keep seiges.
- win by numbers?
- benefits for grouping with less people?
- combat dynamics?
- AP system is poorly designed to focus everyone into keep takes instead of promoting good combat
- Campaign scoreboard at fault?
- Group size? Probs wont change much but makes it harder to amass
Why is combat balled up instead of spread out?- Little anti numbers mechanics left: proxy bombing is all thats there?
- What classes still have viable skills that scale with enemy players?
- Seige meta? Persistent catapult ground dot effects cause way more calculations that say a balista.
- Breach meta requires larger and larger ball groups to survive?
- Stack on crown?
Combat mechanic changes?- Why are there so many aoe cc forms readily available
- Why are there little long duration counters for cc like snares/roots
- What distinguishes using a spammable on one player vs the same ability cost for an aoe that could hit 10+
- Why doesn't aoe scale with amount of players hit? Why is it flat damage in the first place?
- Why were the limits on how many dots/hots groups can generate removed from pvp? Why do all dots/hots stack?
- Should group buffs and heals only go to group members? possibly at a certain group size? 5+? Toggle option?
I mean we can go on about a million things that are mainly an issue since pvp hasn't been looked at since the IC days and has slowly killed itself over the years. I remember when the true end game was pvp back when campaigns would be pop locked with little to no lag for hours on end. Massive allessia bridge fights. The ability to sneak down and around to fight small man fights in the back. Idk this game used to have a massive draw to it pvp wise, but hey i guess nobody in zos figured out how to make it draw in money.
Perhaps an option would be to share the AP gain from all resources within a group. So the gain in effectiveness to kill players has the drawback that it would be a very ineffective way to earn alliance ranks.6 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭What is sad is zos is looking for an easy fix, when the issue has deeper mechanical and game design issues.
Why do players even accumulate in 50+ man groups?- no objectives to separate? Resources useless at keep seiges.
- win by numbers?
- benefits for grouping with less people?
- combat dynamics?
- AP system is poorly designed to focus everyone into keep takes instead of promoting good combat
- Campaign scoreboard at fault?
- Group size? Probs wont change much but makes it harder to amass
Why is combat balled up instead of spread out?- Little anti numbers mechanics left: proxy bombing is all thats there?
- What classes still have viable skills that scale with enemy players?
- Seige meta? Persistent catapult ground dot effects cause way more calculations that say a balista.
- Breach meta requires larger and larger ball groups to survive?
- Stack on crown?
Combat mechanic changes?- Why are there so many aoe cc forms readily available
- Why are there little long duration counters for cc like snares/roots
- What distinguishes using a spammable on one player vs the same ability cost for an aoe that could hit 10+
- Why doesn't aoe scale with amount of players hit? Why is it flat damage in the first place?
- Why were the limits on how many dots/hots groups can generate removed from pvp? Why do all dots/hots stack?
- Should group buffs and heals only go to group members? possibly at a certain group size? 5+? Toggle option?
I mean we can go on about a million things that are mainly an issue since pvp hasn't been looked at since the IC days and has slowly killed itself over the years. I remember when the true end game was pvp back when campaigns would be pop locked with little to no lag for hours on end. Massive allessia bridge fights. The ability to sneak down and around to fight small man fights in the back. Idk this game used to have a massive draw to it pvp wise, but hey i guess nobody in zos figured out how to make it draw in money.
Perhaps an option would be to share the AP gain from all resources within a group. So the gain in effectiveness to kill players has the drawback that it would be a very ineffective way to earn alliance ranks.
I thought about this a lot and heres my take:
So the end goal is to open up small man gameplay AT ALL SKILL LEVELS, yes even newer players should WANT to get involved. This mentality that new players that never want to learn 50 man while gud players can solo has been hurting pvp for years.- First make forward camps only work COMPLETELY outside keep and resource range. These are for field fights, bridge fights, scroll runs, gate fights, towns, etc
- Now when a keep flags and a defender dies they can respawn at any owned resource every 5 mins. Any attacker that dies within a keep/resource range can respawn at any owned resource they have.
- While a keep is flagged WITH X amount of seige on both defender and attacker sides, There will be an AP boost towards resource captures and defends.
Eso combat dynamics has slowly killed off a % of its lower tier player's who solo. Patch by Patch if the bottom 10% of solo players can no longer solo and end up in groups we end up with a game with 50 man groups running around and then only 1vXers who just afk at resources all day. Sad part is when zergs stop attacking you and other 1vXers know everyone else so there are rarely any fights anymore.1 -
erio✭✭✭✭✭Maybe have 2 cp campaigns, one with larger group sizes allowed, and one with a cap of 6-12.Edited by erio on September 27, 2020 7:52PM0
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DjinnAeternam✭✭✭electriczzz wrote: »I wouldn't give a damn about them if they wouldn't make the entire game unplayable for everyone with all their resto staff spamms and aoes left and right.
I see that the tests so far don't make a difference and the moment one ball group enters the field it's nearly unplayable for almost everyone involved, why can't ZOS see that it's not the individual players who cause the lags but connect it to the so called"organized groups"? I love cyrodiil but the state it's in every day past a certain hour is emberassing.
They should've placed tests in place to prevent big groups from stacking and spamming the same stuff instead of putting cooldowns on aoes. It's so infuriating having to wait 3-10 seconds after using a leap/charge ( if they even go off) for the damage to arrive and in the meantime can't deal damage because everything is locked until the damage registered.
> They should've placed tests in place to prevent big groups from stacking and spamming the same stuff instead of putting cooldowns on aoes - You do realize they did just that on some of the tests right? Check the huge list of skills that were affected by the tests, its almost every skill.
They did indeed almost entirely stopped groups from spamming skills, but as some of the "ball" group players have been warning you long ago, it won't solve anything.
The fact that you really believe a 6-12 man group pvping against a 24+ enemy zerg is the cause of "entire game unplayable for everyone with all their resto staff spamms and aoes left and right" is just ridiculous.
Besides that in tests most couldn't spam anything heal or damage related (or you believe that using skills with 3s cooldown gap is spamming?) , i and many other players in PC EU (No-CP) have experienced huge lack of performance with 0 (zero/none) ballgroups in the Cyrodiil instance, and i really am 100% sure there was 0 of them active.
How do you explain that?
You start to lag/desync/etc when you encounter *ANY* reasonable stack of players that does something else than just light attacks. This includes randoms, stacks of solo players leeching AP in keeps, or anything in between.
How banning group in a group created content is going to fix the game? Play solo everywhere and everytime?
The problem is ZoS lack of technical competence and will to review the game code (which by this time should be worse than spaghetti) and to implement proper conditions for the costumers to use.
Imagine blaming people for playing together as a team and enjoying challenges and odds on outnumbered battles.
Yea right, if the game was single player and offline things would be fixed, but then , this is not the case.
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BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It’s cyrodill. Isn’t it supposed to be armies fighting each other? Epic large scale battles is the appeal, right?5 -
Shardaxx✭✭✭✭✭You can't ban or even complain about people running around in an organised group, dropping their attacks on the same targets. It's highly effective.
So what can be done? Well for one, they could add in 'friendly fire' damage in cyrodiil (only). That would split the ball groups up real quick. Single target abilities wouldn't really be affected since they wouldn't target friendlies to fire them, but AOEs would damage everyone in the area, friends and foes alike.
Just a thought. Otherwise, we're all stuck with this style of play.Edited by Shardaxx on September 27, 2020 10:04PMPS4 - Europe - Shardaxx - Wood Elf Nightblade - Aldmeri Dominion0 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭@DjinnAeternam well he is not entirely wrong there that an well organized group can contribute more to lag than a larger group of disorganized players.
It is all calculation density and say if that 12man organized group is running heavily calculation dense abilities all at once like proxy bombing with timed aoe dot+effects, then yeah they could potentially cause a spike.
If you played during any of the mym events when boat loads of pve'ers come in you would see that for some reason the server doesnt lag as much even when pop locked. So what gives? Well the thought would be that those players are new to pvp and arent running with a pvp meta group/zerg playstyle.
Not saying they should prevent 12 man organized groups from taking down 50man groups, but they definitely play a role. We should really be looking for measures to take that would limit how much strain groups in general can put on the server.- if dots/hots didnt stack
- if ally buffs/skills only affected group members
- group sizes limited to 12
- make aoe damage scale with number of players hit
- remove large sources of cheap cc spammables EX: bombard
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭pauld1_ESO wrote: »electriczzz wrote: »I wouldn't give a damn about them if they wouldn't make the entire game unplayable for everyone with all their resto staff spamms and aoes left and right.
I see that the tests so far don't make a difference and the moment one ball group enters the field it's nearly unplayable for almost everyone involved, why can't ZOS see that it's not the individual players who cause the lags but connect it to the so called"organized groups"? I love cyrodiil but the state it's in every day past a certain hour is emberassing.
They should've placed tests in place to prevent big groups from stacking and spamming the same stuff instead of putting cooldowns on aoes. It's so infuriating having to wait 3-10 seconds after using a leap/charge ( if they even go off) for the damage to arrive and in the meantime can't deal damage because everything is locked until the damage registered.
I don't know how you ban people for team work,but I do agree it is a problem. Whenever these groups come around my latency doubles. It is easy to avoid the giant red blob of death, but since they lag you out many times you get caught in it anyway. It's really stupid.
In the end this game has a crap infrastructure, it's all ZOS's fault, not ball groups.
Pretty much this.0
This discussion has been closed.