MICROSOFT vs ESO - POSSIBLE NEW LOOT BOX POLICY

marius_buys

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

marius_buys wrote: »

HappyElephant wrote: »

MSFT's clear policy with loot boxes is to make sure they don't run into trouble with gambling laws in the US.
For example, MSFT makes sure players "always receive fair value."
MSFT also makes sure all loot items are available for sale. That way they can clearly attach for each item real-monetary-value.

This is obviously not the case for ESO's crown crates.
For example, ZOS's gems are not translatable into actual monetary value.
I have seen people open 200 crown crates, only to receive one mount.
ESO's Crown Crates are also dangerous for players with a gambling addiction.

A case could be made that ESO's Crown Crates are a form of lottery or online gambling.
For starters, you cannot quantify that the player always receive "fair value."

Do you think ESO is breaking federal gambling laws with its Crown Crates?

Great, logical reasoning and makes a compelling case to bring ZOS loot box policy in line with that of Microsofts' rather than risk breaking the law.

The Microsoft deal isn't expected to be done until 2021, @marius_buys.

Wait until then to bring out the torches, pitchforks, and tin foil hats.

Discusion is the precursor to action not so?

Ratzkifal

It sounds good until you remember what a "fair price" is according to ZOS.

• 80 crown lethal poisons - 200 crowns
• 10 crown fortifying meal - 400 crowns
• 10 crown refreshing drink - 400 crowns
• 10 crown soul gems - 400 crowns
• 10 crown tristat potions - 200 crowns
• 10 crown repair kits - 400 crowns

They'll just be pointing at those deals and claim that the current crate prices are fair already because of all the "value" added by this junk.
A regular scam crate always contains at least two common or fine quality items. Potions come in fives and poisons in twenty-fives. That's at least 162.5 "justified" crowns paid for garbage per crate if it really is "fair". And don't forget that most crates contain three cards below superior quality so that's even more crowns they can justify to get wasted!
If they'd actually want to make it fair then they'd have to reduce the crate price by at least 150 crowns. That way crates at least wouldn't make you pay more than is appropriate for a single superior quality drop.
Looking at the Eccentric Experimenter outfit and comparing it to the Legendary Dragon Armor pack at 2000 crowns, the price per outfit piece would be 286 crowns. Crown crate prices should be in line with that while taking into consideration that random offers have to be cheaper than guaranteed offers to make sense and be fair, since you can always end up getting something you didn't want.

At least we'll be able to grind the actual good stuff if this becomes the new policy at Zenimax too.

idk

OP is late to the party as the loot box discussion happened back when the sale was announced.

Besides that, it is highly doubtful crown crates will be changed in any way anytime soon. MS is smart enough to now make quick changes to a company when they purchase it. We also know that the second point on that page will not happen with the current design of the crown crates. MS is smart enough to not give away for free in-game what can be sold on the cash shop.

In other words, other than the second point not happening, the rest does not necessarily change anything other than displaying the odds for drops. However, I understand speculation will abound regardless.

Danikat

DreamsUnderStars wrote: »

The only problem is that the devs (ZOS in this case) sets what the value of something is. So they could say an xp scroll is worth 40$ and claim that the value exceeds the amount of the loot box. Assigning worth to 1's and 0's is a very grey area.

I used to work at Kmart and when sales would roll around they would jack up the prices of somethings and then mark them down so that people were actually paying the original price.

I'm not saying ZOS would do this, but it's something developers could do.

One reason they couldn't do that is it's illegal in the UK and I think several other European countries, and even though Zenimax is based in the USA they have to comply with the law wherever they're selling their products.

If I remember correctly the previous price which you're discounting from had to be offered for at least 28 consecutive days before the sale starts, so they'd have to jack up the price a month before they start the sale, which would make it extremely obvious what they're doing.

(They did once increase the cost of crowns in the UK, which results in the typical sale price being about what it used to cost normally, but that was a permanent price increase. If I remember correctly they did it when the pound crashed after the Brexit referendum and conveniently decided not to adjust it again when it recovered.)

pod88kk

Danikat wrote: »

BigBragg wrote: »

Section two is the interesting part.

It is, but this was discussed frequently when the news that Microsoft was buying Zenimax first broke and various people pointed out that technically all they need to do to fulfil that is add 1 source of free crown crates into the game. For example if your first vMA clear each week was guaranteed to give you 1 crown crate then they could claim that crates, and therefore everything in them, has an in-game source. It's not by any stretch of the imagination a viable alternative to buying crates, but it meets the wording of the Microsoft policy and so would technically fulfil their obligation.

I think that's why we get the occasional Crown Crate in the daily log in rewards.

EdmondDontes

Sahidom wrote: »

I wonder how these loot box policies differ from online gambling since its a micro transaction for virtual items of value; considering, IRS doesn't consider this revenue when you sell a virtual item because its not a material object exchange.

That can not possibly be true. They charge taxes on the sales of ESO plus, which is literally nothing real. It's not even pixels. Pretty sure taxes and the IRS have something in common.

MJallday

Danikat wrote: »

BigBragg wrote: »

Section two is the interesting part.

It is, but this was discussed frequently when the news that Microsoft was buying Zenimax first broke and various people pointed out that technically all they need to do to fulfil that is add 1 source of free crown crates into the game. For example if your first vMA clear each week was guaranteed to give you 1 crown crate then they could claim that crates, and therefore everything in them, has an in-game source. It's not by any stretch of the imagination a viable alternative to buying crates, but it meets the wording of the Microsoft policy and so would technically fulfil their obligation.

It would also be worth noting that MS have to be very open and transparent about RNG

Something which Zos haven’t exactly been clear about with eso ...

BleedMe_AnOcean

I personally don't have anything against a cash shop, but I do think the loot boxes are pushing it.

They maybe crossed the line with this latest mount debacle. They made it unique, they made it so it isn't available through any means outside of the Crown crates, and to top it all off, they made it insanely rare.

On the one hand, I could argue that the information regarding rarity and cost is available to us and we should know going into it that RNG may not be on our side.

On the other, MMORPGs are filled with completionists who derive their satisfaction from acquiring everything in the game. Those people are likely to drop hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars trying to score the rare mount for their collection.

That said, I can see both sides of this, but this whole thing with the mount? It just doesn't sit well with me and it feels unethical as hell. They may as well say, "Let's take advantage of these poor suckers who want this mount and make bank."

Aigym_Hlervu

marius_buys wrote: »

Like trading cards, when you purchase a loot box, you know that you will receive a virtual item of value, but you don’t know exactly which item you will receive. Loot boxes have been the focus of debate because they contain an element of chance. We know that many of our customers like the element of chance in their gameplay and we want to deliver the best value to gamers who choose to buy loot boxes.

I've never been understanding the customer's interest in such things. It's like going to a store to buy some certain food to eat, but instead of buying goods you intend to pay for, you just give money for some random unnecessaries a store keeper decides to give you. You want a can of beer? Yeah, buy three hundrend lemons, bread, meat, a pizza and a thousand chupa-chups, then trade them all for some coupons you can finally spend on that beer. What?!. It's stupid. I give you money you ask - you give me the thing for the named price! It's not gambling, because in casino you spend money hoping to get more money in order to spend it on certain goods later - here you spend money to buy certain goods you wish to buy, but the shopkeeper plays such a dirty trick and, moreover, it somehow works. People just buy that pig in a poke and think it's normal!.. You want to make a gambling house that much there - make it a separate thing, let people play it to win gold, AP, Undaunted Keys, tickets, any other currency we already have there. But let the players decide themselves how to spend it.

Ryvyr

Many ways of many people, it appears, getting at:

1) The tired talking point of "you don't need crates to play the game, therefor I have complete apathy and mock everyone with an iota of critique on how it effects everyone else~"

or

2) ZOS is milking as much as the FOMO demand curve will allow to maximize profit and, short of legal action unable to hold in litigation, they will simply set prices as referenced to justify the prohibitive avarice

So flavour aside and trying to be charitable, I do lean towards the latter general sentiment though see no reason the system would change soon. At end of day it's about maximizing profit on the corporate end, and useful distraction are exactly that. Apathetic folks will go on unphased, whilst concerned folks will remain concerned. Perhaps far enough out someone inside develops a conscience but..

Further still still, maybe MS policy will eventually mold ZOS crates in its image, which despite flaws would still be welcome by comparison.

trackdemon5512

ESO predates the policy so it’s exempt.

newtinmpls

BigBragg wrote: »

Section two is the interesting part.

Wow, yes indeed!