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Reasons why I feel combat is not great
DuckInRealLife
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I want to start off by saying I do enjoy this games other aspects and I enjoy them however the combat system in ESO I cant particularly get into.
While I understand a lot of the combat changes made to traditional Elder Scrolls games comes from placing it within a MMORPG setting to me it does not feel as engaging as other MMO titles.
To me this is just because of slight things that have occurred while trying to keep the game feeling as traditional it can to the franchise but there is several reasons why this doesn't work.
Class Systems and Power Scaling
While classes are an integral part to MMOs to help define what your character can do, the issue comes later on when you look into building the spec of class itself, because of how power scales with spell power, weapon power, ect. "Play how you want" loses some value when it come towards "play how you feel like within the limited grounds" as some classes have little to no stamina morphs and have to fill this in with stamina based weapon abilities in order to flesh out their kit. This has resulted in hybrid classes not being optimal at all because having to share and disperse resource pools. The only Pseudo fix to this is the Pelinal's set, where I may have to give something else up to play how I want more optimally.
If power scaled of a singular stat instead of two it would make all forms of builds playable and more diverse builds making resources what they're intended to be; resource pools.
Skill Limitation
I'm somewhat under the impression this is a console based reason but the lack of skills that can be used feels horrible. While with weapon swaps it is 10 skills plus 2 ultimates with having only access to 5 at a time. To me weapon swapping feels clunky and detracts from the actual combat of the game. I feel like a larger skill pool per weapon would be a nicer start to add a bit of diversity to what can be had as currently for most classes regardless of if you're nightblade or necromancer, you run the same weapon based abilities and mages/fighters guild abilities as well as same gear, standing stone, consumables as every other class.
This also ties back into my argument about power scaling, there isn't enough stamina morphs for classes which means most classes end up all running the same thing. At least 75% of all class skills should have a magicka morph and a stamina morph to help promote skill diversity and potentially reduce the need to rely so heavily on weapon/guild based abilities.
Attack weaving
To me this is another horrible feature of the combat, yes resource generation is a thing but this having to weave, swap, use skills just feels more horrible the more latency you have due to having to be most effective with animation cancelling of items through weaving and having it to generate resources. I cannot think of another game that employs resource regeneration in this regard and rather takes me out of the combat having to then slow down and just click to then wait for a potion cooldown to maybe get into the real beef of it again. As silly as it sounds I would rather have the passive recoveries increased to make attack weaving still something within combat but not an integral part to sustainability of combat.
Tropes and skill tree suggestions - TES
This is more a cosmetic feel to why I don't like it:
Casting via staves; Can there be a cosmetic option to have it come out of your hands instead?
Sword and spell; It's no secret reading this my favourite trope is a spellsword, sword/wand and tome skill tree?
Unarmed skill tree
Spell power based swords and stamina based staves; this could also just be an outfit station change
While I understand a lot of the combat changes made to traditional Elder Scrolls games comes from placing it within a MMORPG setting to me it does not feel as engaging as other MMO titles.
To me this is just because of slight things that have occurred while trying to keep the game feeling as traditional it can to the franchise but there is several reasons why this doesn't work.
Class Systems and Power Scaling
While classes are an integral part to MMOs to help define what your character can do, the issue comes later on when you look into building the spec of class itself, because of how power scales with spell power, weapon power, ect. "Play how you want" loses some value when it come towards "play how you feel like within the limited grounds" as some classes have little to no stamina morphs and have to fill this in with stamina based weapon abilities in order to flesh out their kit. This has resulted in hybrid classes not being optimal at all because having to share and disperse resource pools. The only Pseudo fix to this is the Pelinal's set, where I may have to give something else up to play how I want more optimally.
If power scaled of a singular stat instead of two it would make all forms of builds playable and more diverse builds making resources what they're intended to be; resource pools.
Skill Limitation
I'm somewhat under the impression this is a console based reason but the lack of skills that can be used feels horrible. While with weapon swaps it is 10 skills plus 2 ultimates with having only access to 5 at a time. To me weapon swapping feels clunky and detracts from the actual combat of the game. I feel like a larger skill pool per weapon would be a nicer start to add a bit of diversity to what can be had as currently for most classes regardless of if you're nightblade or necromancer, you run the same weapon based abilities and mages/fighters guild abilities as well as same gear, standing stone, consumables as every other class.
This also ties back into my argument about power scaling, there isn't enough stamina morphs for classes which means most classes end up all running the same thing. At least 75% of all class skills should have a magicka morph and a stamina morph to help promote skill diversity and potentially reduce the need to rely so heavily on weapon/guild based abilities.
Attack weaving
To me this is another horrible feature of the combat, yes resource generation is a thing but this having to weave, swap, use skills just feels more horrible the more latency you have due to having to be most effective with animation cancelling of items through weaving and having it to generate resources. I cannot think of another game that employs resource regeneration in this regard and rather takes me out of the combat having to then slow down and just click to then wait for a potion cooldown to maybe get into the real beef of it again. As silly as it sounds I would rather have the passive recoveries increased to make attack weaving still something within combat but not an integral part to sustainability of combat.
Tropes and skill tree suggestions - TES
This is more a cosmetic feel to why I don't like it:
Casting via staves; Can there be a cosmetic option to have it come out of your hands instead?
Sword and spell; It's no secret reading this my favourite trope is a spellsword, sword/wand and tome skill tree?
Unarmed skill tree
Spell power based swords and stamina based staves; this could also just be an outfit station change
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MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭I am unsure about when you purchased and started playing the game, but the issues you see with the lack of stamina in class trees and magicka in weapon trees is due to how hybrid the game was originally. "Stam" builds were nearly non existant. Many abilities did not scale with simply weapon damage+max stam for stamina abilities either. Originally abilities would scale based on certain stats, for instance one ability might increase in damage based on crit.
The only really 'efficient' hybrid builds out now are going to be tank builds. Otherwise your build would be losing efficiency somewhere compared to any straight mag/stam build. Again this is due to the game being changed over the years.
The skill system was made so your build must also include what abilities you run to be competitive. It avoids things like having a hotbar of 40+ abilities. Your choices actually matter in this aspect which further differentiates builds from each other.
As for attack weaving it is on a global cooldown system instead of an ability cooldown system. This means you can essentially do one light attack and one ability each second. Which isnt exactly hard to do by any means, but youtubers and content creators like to hype this up like they are doing something special. being able to click 2 buttons within 4-5 human reaction times isn't anything special.
I highly doubt they would ever go create new animations for every combination of weapon/skill/resource/hands that is alot of work that 99% if the community won't care about compared to fixing basic performance issues.1 -
Jierdanit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tbh the Combat is nearly the only Thing that still keeps me playing this game, since i nearly only PvP and the Overall performance and the current proc set overload is certainly Not making PvP more fun.PC/EU, StamSorc Main3 -
Xargas13✭✭✭While I do enjoy combat, I don't really like how it looks sometimes, paired with animation canceling and tactics to make you dish out damage faster, makes your character look like he is having a seizure
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DuckInRealLife✭✭✭While I do enjoy combat, I don't really like how it looks sometimes, paired with animation canceling and tactics to make you dish out damage faster, makes your character look like he is having a seizure
Since I do play with 250 ping minimum at all times it is worse again this it due to not knowing how fast APM should be and how it particularly works. It gets to a point where desync or just it overlaps so hard where I double up or it doesn’t particularly work as intended and it doesn’t feel great.
I’m not sure if it’s the speed at which I’m trying to do it or lag and nobody has a clear answer.
I would just like more viable hybrid play styles that aren’t tanks because I don’t want to use a staff period. It is not something that aesthetically pleases me.
But this overlaps with my competitive mechanical nature that wants to do it perfectly and it’s very frustrating to deal with.0 -
hakan✭✭✭✭✭i dont get how do you get to these conclusions.
anicancel keeps it from being clunky not vice versa.
also there are a lot of skills that you can use but only 10+2 ultimates can be used in combat. if you could use the others too, that would be way too imbalanced and we dont have 10min+ cooldowns on skills like WoW. this way you build yourself, with advantages and disadvantages keeping it from being one-type for all build.
only thing that kills uniqueness and fun is that constant mindless nerfing that deleted a whole archetype like heavy snb nightblades or sap tanks etc.. you cant really compensate this by using another set like equipping a generic proc set.1 -
Sahidom✭✭✭✭ESO combat is about identical to DDO dynamic combat mechanics. Exception being the inclusion of the m/M buffs, however, they share common implementations despite them being two different combat systems. You can try the comparison to see what Im referring to, in context to dynamic combat where both use linear modifiers. Both have their pros and cons; I feel more players value this type of dynamic combat system but grow very frustrated to imbalances between class, gear sets, and skill performance; some of the frustrations stem from their early decisions that rolled out in patches and updates, as ESO allowed the negative impacts to cascade and be supported; all in the name of fun, right? Anyways, I play ESO for the dynamic combat system - since, in a nutshell, all games are graphical overlays of a combat system.
What they need to address, sooner or later, is the forced nature into builds and finally address how limiting their class and skill system has gotten; where skills and character development moved into gear configurations over actual class builds; ponder that statement, and I'm sure you'll see how the two effect combat overall, and the relationship to some of the pain points on the forums.
Despite its flaws, its enough to hold the last thread of interest for the game.
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DuckInRealLife✭✭✭i dont get how do you get to these conclusions.
anicancel keeps it from being clunky not vice versa.
It depends on latency, the high latency you play with the more that animation cancelling is going to mess up the combat system and make it not fun as two abilities blend in and then inputs get lost because of it (back when triple slash was meta) and having to light attack in between, there would be cases where I would be pressing LA > attack, then judging when the hand is at the highest point is when to cancel the animation. Things got lost and would end up attacking twice even though I pressed LA in the middle or the animation for LA would just not be there at all. It probably wouldn’t feel so bad if I knew why I just find it that way.
This is the issue I have an issue with, because as I stated I don’t know if it’s a API issue (pacing and pressing things too fast) or if it’s latency.
The higher ping you go the worse some things feel mechanically, animation cancelling and attack weaving is one of those things.
I’m not saying to get rid of it completely, I just don’t think it should be the norm for resource generation.
In terms of other games:
And I’m guessing you mean BDO, again still had about 300 ping with that but the latency didn’t feel as bad in a gameplay sense because everything seemed to flow well (except youre kind just meh at pvp always cause latency)
Tera depending on what class you played also didn’t seem to have this issue either in particular except you couldn’t play lancer on high ping cause of just horrible desync and would end up inside the boss for no reason.
As for FFXIV:
I hated the combat there 100% I wanted to play a ninja but because of latency I would do my chackras right and send out my shuriken and because of latency also get a bunny on my head...0