Collections item system - what about the items upgraded to legendary, any long term storage?

CleymenZero

So while I applaud the new system being implemented, I do think more bank space is necessary.

I have tons and tons of sets that are golded out that have seen a significant nerf with the last few updates. I won't name em and list the reasons why I have em, they were good, now they're not.

So the new system would allot me to decon the sets I don't think I need for later but here are the biggest problem:
- I've spent gold, gold mats and transmutes on those sets, if I decon them and those sets were to become good again, I'd have to spend all that gold and transmutes all over again or hope some of these show up at the golden (I'd still have to transmute).

For that reason and many other that could be debated, I think more bank space is still necessary or at least, have the transmutes and gold mats be refunded or banked into the system (so you don't decon all your stuff for the sole purpose of selling the mats).

So, thoughts?

Daemons_Bane

When you reconstruct them, you choose a trait from what your character can craft, so no worries there.. and the transmute crystals you pay are only pawned, meaning you get them back when you decon the item again.. same goes for any materials used to upgrade it to gold

DigitalHype

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

When you reconstruct them, you choose a trait from what your character can craft, so no worries there.. and the transmute crystals you pay are only pawned, meaning you get them back when you decon the item again.. same goes for any materials used to upgrade it to gold

That still doesn't address the OP's issue. They have apprently golded so many sets already. In order to free up bank space they would need to decon all of those. But, in order to reconstruct those sets under the new system you still have to re-spend all of the improvement materials again. Basically you end up paying an insane forturne for the addtional bank space under this new system. Because the gold mat costs are inflated through the roof.

Everstorm

My thoughts: new system is way better than the current system, even if it isn't perfect.

driosketch

I mean, you're kind of engaging in a sunk cost fallacy. You have already spent the resources on those items. That cost is already lost, more so if you are not using them. Your only hope is that they may be useful in the future, negating some undetermined cost in the future. Three things:

-ZOS has been on a trajectory to balance out sets and buffs to be evened out with one another. So thinking that something that was meta at some point will suddenly become meta again, that is they boost it above the power curve, is unlikely.
-Those sets could at least release a gold upgrade mat back to you.
-If you are intent on keep some, keep jewelry or weapons, stuff that is more likely to be used. Armor peices can be swapped around, and may not need to be golded later like weapons would be.

Also, focus on sets that would work with your character or your play style. Toss anything you only used because it was BiS but hasn't been for a year or more.

Daemons_Bane

DigitalHype wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

When you reconstruct them, you choose a trait from what your character can craft, so no worries there.. and the transmute crystals you pay are only pawned, meaning you get them back when you decon the item again.. same goes for any materials used to upgrade it to gold

That still doesn't address the OP's issue. They have apprently golded so many sets already. In order to free up bank space they would need to decon all of those. But, in order to reconstruct those sets under the new system you still have to re-spend all of the improvement materials again. Basically you end up paying an insane forturne for the addtional bank space under this new system. Because the gold mat costs are inflated through the roof.

It won't help you with current golden gear no, but neither is there a permanent cost attached to the gear you gold from now on

redspecter23

My thought is that over time, eventually all my toons and alts will either have reconstructed gear in every slot, or crafted gear. Once every slot is reconstructed, the cost to change it is free.

Yes, it really sucks to have a huge stockpile of currently golded items. This system doesn't address that at the moment, but If you golded it in the past, I assume it was at least used at some point so some use was gained. If you golded something you never used, that's unfortunate.

The problem I'm seeing with the new system is that I'm heavily incentivized to use overland/dungeon jewelry as it is free to reconstruct after the first time. You can replace it as many times as you want once you do it once. However, crafted jewelry still has a cost to upgrade to gold each time so my bank and mules will just be filled with crafted gold items instead of hoarding overland/dungeon pieces.

A solution may be to reduce the massive cost to craft gold jewels at some point as this new system is making the uniqueness of trial gold jewelry a bit less special than it has been in the past.

Daemons_Bane

Yeah, jewelry is gonna be the heavy hitter..

zaria

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Yeah, jewelry is gonna be the heavy hitter..

Yes, but now you have tons of other gear you can drop.
With new system all gear are in practice crafted. You can create them on will but they still cost to create.
Chests, bank, alts, just as crafted gear you look at cost to create, this is also true for overland who can be bought for gold.

Golded and purple jewelry are still expensive to make so its the stuff you want to hang on to longest.
All the weapons from various dungeon and trial sets as you hang on to as they are hard to get and might get used goes into the hopper on day one.
Not sure how weight on monster sets and some other sets who drop in multiple weights are handled?

Xebov

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

DigitalHype wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

When you reconstruct them, you choose a trait from what your character can craft, so no worries there.. and the transmute crystals you pay are only pawned, meaning you get them back when you decon the item again.. same goes for any materials used to upgrade it to gold

That still doesn't address the OP's issue. They have apprently golded so many sets already. In order to free up bank space they would need to decon all of those. But, in order to reconstruct those sets under the new system you still have to re-spend all of the improvement materials again. Basically you end up paying an insane forturne for the addtional bank space under this new system. Because the gold mat costs are inflated through the roof.

It won't help you with current golden gear no, but neither is there a permanent cost attached to the gear you gold from now on

Im not sure about this part. In the strem it was visible that this is not the case.

Xebov

CleymenZero wrote: »

So while I applaud the new system being implemented, I do think more bank space is necessary.

Just to get you right. The bank has 240/480 slots. There are 4 chests at 60 and 4 chests at 30 items and up to 18 characters with up to 210 slots each. Thats 4.620 items storage. So you have all chars you dont play in use as storage option and all the chests and your bank is full?

Dusk_Coven

DigitalHype wrote: »

Basically you end up paying an insane forturne for the addtional bank space under this new system. Because the gold mat costs are inflated through the roof.

And it's probably going to go up even more to keep up with demand when people rubber stamp out gear straight from collections quickly instead of grinding it.

craybest

What's this new system you guys are talking about?

wolfie1.0.

this wasn't clear in the stream and i can't wait to test it out. but once i collect a set, can i recreate the set multiple times?

IE: i farm ICP for a full sheer venom set. i have 6 stamina PVP builds that i want to use this set for. Can i, using the reconstruction/colection system, reconstruct 6 full sets so that i can have one per character that needs it?

redspecter23

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

this wasn't clear in the stream and i can't wait to test it out. but once i collect a set, can i recreate the set multiple times?

IE: i farm ICP for a full sheer venom set. i have 6 stamina PVP builds that i want to use this set for. Can i, using the reconstruction/colection system, reconstruct 6 full sets so that i can have one per character that needs it?

I can't see why there would be any limit to how many copies you can create. It appears to be unlimited (as long as you can pay the mat cost)

wolfie1.0.

redspecter23 wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

this wasn't clear in the stream and i can't wait to test it out. but once i collect a set, can i recreate the set multiple times?

IE: i farm ICP for a full sheer venom set. i have 6 stamina PVP builds that i want to use this set for. Can i, using the reconstruction/colection system, reconstruct 6 full sets so that i can have one per character that needs it?

I can't see why there would be any limit to how many copies you can create. It appears to be unlimited (as long as you can pay the mat cost)

I mean i agree but this is ZOS we are talking about. There are limits in place in game that are arbitrary everywhere so have to ask.

goldenarcher1

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

this wasn't clear in the stream and i can't wait to test it out. but once i collect a set, can i recreate the set multiple times?

IE: i farm ICP for a full sheer venom set. i have 6 stamina PVP builds that i want to use this set for. Can i, using the reconstruction/colection system, reconstruct 6 full sets so that i can have one per character that needs it?

This is a good question.

Lets say i farmed one Advancing Yokeda dagger from HRC.

Could it be added to the sticker book and then re-created multiple times?

Zulera301

looks like the time to hoard gold mats is now then. they're already inflated and that's about to get worse, which means $$$$ for sellers like me.

driosketch

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

this wasn't clear in the stream and i can't wait to test it out. but once i collect a set, can i recreate the set multiple times?

IE: i farm ICP for a full sheer venom set. i have 6 stamina PVP builds that i want to use this set for. Can i, using the reconstruction/colection system, reconstruct 6 full sets so that i can have one per character that needs it?

I can't see why there would be any limit to how many copies you can create. It appears to be unlimited (as long as you can pay the mat cost)

I mean i agree but this is ZOS we are talking about. There are limits in place in game that are arbitrary everywhere so have to ask.

Limit is, even though they raised it by a factor of 5, the cap on transmute stones, as well as the cost per item and the rate of cyrstal drops.

lillybit

Initially you're better off keeping the gear you have. However, next meta when you need all new gear your best bet is to use reconned sets. After that, assuming you collect all the set items for the 25 crystal cost, it's free to swap and change - you get the mats back when you decon and use them for the new pieces - so no reason to hold on to old gear then. Might as well get what you can out of deconning them!

This is definitely someting that will get better and better the longer you use it

Daemons_Bane

Xebov wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

DigitalHype wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

When you reconstruct them, you choose a trait from what your character can craft, so no worries there.. and the transmute crystals you pay are only pawned, meaning you get them back when you decon the item again.. same goes for any materials used to upgrade it to gold

That still doesn't address the OP's issue. They have apprently golded so many sets already. In order to free up bank space they would need to decon all of those. But, in order to reconstruct those sets under the new system you still have to re-spend all of the improvement materials again. Basically you end up paying an insane forturne for the addtional bank space under this new system. Because the gold mat costs are inflated through the roof.

It won't help you with current golden gear no, but neither is there a permanent cost attached to the gear you gold from now on

Im not sure about this part. In the strem it was visible that this is not the case.

The way I heard/understood it, when you deconstructed a piece that you had "re-made" every single material used would be returned to you

CleymenZero

Everstorm wrote: »

My thoughts: new system is way better than the current system, even if it isn't perfect.

What current system? The bank space stays.

AlnilamE

Xebov wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

DigitalHype wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

When you reconstruct them, you choose a trait from what your character can craft, so no worries there.. and the transmute crystals you pay are only pawned, meaning you get them back when you decon the item again.. same goes for any materials used to upgrade it to gold

That still doesn't address the OP's issue. They have apprently golded so many sets already. In order to free up bank space they would need to decon all of those. But, in order to reconstruct those sets under the new system you still have to re-spend all of the improvement materials again. Basically you end up paying an insane forturne for the addtional bank space under this new system. Because the gold mat costs are inflated through the roof.

It won't help you with current golden gear no, but neither is there a permanent cost attached to the gear you gold from now on

Im not sure about this part. In the strem it was visible that this is not the case.

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

DigitalHype wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

When you reconstruct them, you choose a trait from what your character can craft, so no worries there.. and the transmute crystals you pay are only pawned, meaning you get them back when you decon the item again.. same goes for any materials used to upgrade it to gold

That still doesn't address the OP's issue. They have apprently golded so many sets already. In order to free up bank space they would need to decon all of those. But, in order to reconstruct those sets under the new system you still have to re-spend all of the improvement materials again. Basically you end up paying an insane forturne for the addtional bank space under this new system. Because the gold mat costs are inflated through the roof.

It won't help you with current golden gear no, but neither is there a permanent cost attached to the gear you gold from now on

Im not sure about this part. In the strem it was visible that this is not the case.

The way I heard/understood it, when you deconstructed a piece that you had "re-made" every single material used would be returned to you

What the dev explained later in a thread was that when you decon something you reconstructed, you get your mats back, but only 25 transmute stones. If you only have one piece of a set collected, the cost to reconstruct is 75 transmute stones, but it goes down progressively as you get more pieces, to a floor cost of 25.

So if you have a full set, you get everything back. If you have less then a full set when you crafted it, you lose some transmute stones.

craybest wrote: »

What's this new system you guys are talking about?

We're getting a gear collection system (aka a "Sticker Book"), any non-crafted gear that is bound to you gets added to the sticker book and you can craft it again "reconstruct" at a cost of mats + transmute stones. You can decon a reconstructed item for a full mat refund (transmute stones subject to the condition I listed above).

We're also getting a limit increase to transmute to 500/1000

This will all be on the PTS tomorrow, so we can try it out.

CleymenZero

driosketch wrote: »

I mean, you're kind of engaging in a sunk cost fallacy. You have already spent the resources on those items. That cost is already lost, more so if you are not using them. Your only hope is that they may be useful in the future, negating some undetermined cost in the future. Three things:

-ZOS has been on a trajectory to balance out sets and buffs to be evened out with one another. So thinking that something that was meta at some point will suddenly become meta again, that is they boost it above the power curve, is unlikely.
-Those sets could at least release a gold upgrade mat back to you.
-If you are intent on keep some, keep jewelry or weapons, stuff that is more likely to be used. Armor peices can be swapped around, and may not need to be golded later like weapons would be.

Also, focus on sets that would work with your character or your play style. Toss anything you only used because it was BiS but hasn't been for a year or more.

Your post is dubious on so many levels. I lack the time to answer with a proper structure but bringing up the sunk cost fallacy was pretty golden.

Firstly, the fact that they're working on such a system is an admission that there is a problem with hoarding because of the constant changes to sets and mets and because of the constant addition of new sets. With this system they're addressing the part of the problem where people hold on to the items because they have spent time farming them but I'm saying, this is not the only reason why we keep all these items, we also keep them so that we don't have to reinvest to reupgrade them.

You're holding on to those items because you've invested time and gold in them and there's no knowing what is going to happen. The only thing one should be certain of is that things are going to change because yes, as cliché as it sounds, the only constant is change.

So the problem with your point on the sunk cost fallacy is demonstrated by the following:
- me: I'm holding on to this stuff because I've spent time and gold collecting them. Changes are guaranteed so even though we don't know what's going to happen, we know something will happen
- Your answer: sunk cost fallacy, cut your losses and move on
- but they're proposing this system to reduce hoarding, why not address the 2 parts of the problem? If that's the case, I won't decon anything and I'll keep talking about the Inventory Management Online game I'm playing.

Can you see how your argument is pointless and contradictory?

I think you haven't been following the game's evolution enough or for long enough to have that stance and here are a few examples:
- Scale breaker dot meta, full 180 with Dragonhold
- 1st pass on a few sets with many changes
- 2nd pass on sets recently with changes to sets that had already seen changes
- proc set meta established disliked by many (you'd be a fool to think that this isn't going to change)
- the new stated desire to decrease damage done and increase damage taken seemingly not taking into account that new trials have been scaled on said damage done and said damage taken (meaning, if you were in a trifecta prog group, you might be nervous)

The point is, things are going to change and they will keep changing so the process of balancing the game does not stop and changes to sets that could be deconned right now might very well become good again.

Beyond balancing around the ever changing meta, sets are constantly being repurposed and the fact that some sets have seen a change in the way they work then a buff and another buff like veiled heritance and ravaging for example and still don't see much use could indicate that they're not done trying to make them work. Just look at Elf Bane, it saw 2 series of changes to make is a viable PvE and PvP option and it works very well right now. Ravaging is starting to look like it could be an option but the charge up time makes it a bit more difficult to use in some scenarios.

Combine that with the fact that there seems to be a tendency towards making some sets class specific (fledgling concept it seems) and you might (or might not, sure) see a set being reworked that would be tailored for stamplar, stamsorc or wtv.

So in essence I never stated that my intention for posting reasons on how this new system doesn't work very well in the case of an endgame player whose collected sets and seen them change over the years was that I would hope that they would be brought to a power level above what's intended, I've been holding onto those sets because there were considerable resources allocated to these sets when they worked well and they have been changed.

"Those sets could at least release a gold upgrade mat back to you."

At best, there is a 1:8 factor in the case of everything other than jewelry and a 1:40 with jewelry. More often than not though, you get nothing. Can you not see the irony here? That's an argument to keep the item and not decon it. You're trying to make a pro with a con, you see that right? You're using one of the reasons one would hold on to an item emphasizing the need to see this address.

"Also, focus on sets that would work with your character or your play style. Toss anything you only used because it was BiS but hasn't been for a year or more."

I'm tempted to make a lot of assumptions based on that statement. I'm tempted to think that, in a competitive setting, you wouldn't give me much challenge. We don't use the same language right? You say play style and I say mets, you say "[...] that would work with your character" and I say "that would work with your class/race combination". It's hard to argue with someone when I play the game and you play your own game.

CleymenZero

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

DigitalHype wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

When you reconstruct them, you choose a trait from what your character can craft, so no worries there.. and the transmute crystals you pay are only pawned, meaning you get them back when you decon the item again.. same goes for any materials used to upgrade it to gold

That still doesn't address the OP's issue. They have apprently golded so many sets already. In order to free up bank space they would need to decon all of those. But, in order to reconstruct those sets under the new system you still have to re-spend all of the improvement materials again. Basically you end up paying an insane forturne for the addtional bank space under this new system. Because the gold mat costs are inflated through the roof.

It won't help you with current golden gear no, but neither is there a permanent cost attached to the gear you gold from now on

😂

Me: this system only addresses 1 of the reasons one would hoard

You: but you can spend your transmutes and re-spend your gold mats you've already spent before and didn't recuperate when you deconed them!!!


Digital hype: but that doesn't help with the point he's trying to make

You: no it won't help

😂

AlnilamE

How many characters' worth of golded items are we talking about here?

It really is up to you, how you want to go about this, though. If keeping the items as is because you will not recoup 100% of the mats you used on them is more valuable to you, then do that.

If the inventory space is worth more, then that's your choice. Nobody can tell you whether you are right or wrong.

Also note that this system doesn't apply to crafted sets, so any crafted sets you are holding on to you'll still have to keep.

Consider, though, that even if you deconned everything after the system is in place and only got 1/8 of your gold mats, you will still keep earning more materials and will eventually recover them. And if you use the reconstruction system to make items, and then they get nerfed, you can decon them and get all your mats back to reconstruct the new meta gear instead.

So yes, you will lose some mats if you decon those items that were nerfed in the past, but you will recover them fairly quickly, while your need for those improvers will go down over time.

(Personally, I'm not going to decon anything gold, but I'll be getting rid of a ton of sets that I was keeping "just in case" to try out some day)

CleymenZero

Xebov wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

So while I applaud the new system being implemented, I do think more bank space is necessary.

Just to get you right. The bank has 240/480 slots. There are 4 chests at 60 and 4 chests at 30 items and up to 18 characters with up to 210 slots each. Thats 4.620 items storage. So you have all chars you dont play in use as storage option and all the chests and your bank is full?

How many sets did they say they had in the stream? There are 59 crafted sets I believe but many times that amount in dungeon, trials and overland. I think they said they had 400 but they're probably counting the monster sets and arena weapons as sets.

Let's just say there are 300 sets. Having 5 pieces of each (and to mix and match with other sets you only have a few pieces of, you will have more than 5). For the crafted sets, some I have a full set of heavy medium and light. Why so much? Well you said it yourself 18 characters so you can easily have a need to mix and match depending on the build. Hey, I have held on toy heavy, medium and light imprenable sets even thought they nerfed it 3 times...

You can't blame a player for wanting to be ready for most eventuality, the game is changing and changing and changing and I want to play the game, not farm more than the new sets that come out so yeah, I have eternal yokeda even though I've never used it, you know what? They changed it a few times so would I be to blame for thinking they could change it again?

They've added more bank space in the past. Why? Because they keep introducing sets and changing others and can understand why we'd want to hold onto things? They're introducing a new item collection system. Why? Because they understand that they keep introducing new sets and admit they may need to allocate more bank space but don't want to cause it's just going to keep hogging precious server space?

Man... Writing this, I'm realizing how many prismatice I have on all these pieces. Lol...

CleymenZero

AlnilamE wrote: »

How many characters' worth of golded items are we talking about here?

It really is up to you, how you want to go about this, though. If keeping the items as is because you will not recoup 100% of the mats you used on them is more valuable to you, then do that.

If the inventory space is worth more, then that's your choice. Nobody can tell you whether you are right or wrong.

Also note that this system doesn't apply to crafted sets, so any crafted sets you are holding on to you'll still have to keep.

Consider, though, that even if you deconned everything after the system is in place and only got 1/8 of your gold mats, you will still keep earning more materials and will eventually recover them. And if you use the reconstruction system to make items, and then they get nerfed, you can decon them and get all your mats back to reconstruct the new meta gear instead.

So yes, you will lose some mats if you decon those items that were nerfed in the past, but you will recover them fairly quickly, while your need for those improvers will go down over time.

(Personally, I'm not going to decon anything gold, but I'll be getting rid of a ton of sets that I was keeping "just in case" to try out some day)

"If the inventory space is worth more, then that's your choice. Nobody can tell you whether you are right or wrong."

I don't think I'm trying to make a point with right or wrong, I just think that in certain cases, this is a half measure. They keep adding sets and partly because of that, people have been requesting more bank space for a while and instead, they give us this system which in some regards is better than bank space and in some other regards isn't.

"Consider, though, that even if you deconned everything after the system is in place and only got 1/8 of your gold mats, you will still keep earning more materials and will eventually recover them. And if you use the reconstruction system to make items, and then they get nerfed, you can decon them and get all your mats back to reconstruct the new meta gear instead."

Yes and they will keep adding sets that will need to be golded as well. Gold mats will always be in demand and it won't change.

"How many characters' worth of golded items are we talking about here?"

I'm at 3700/4059 items. I PvP and PvE with 18 characters so I have MAAAAAAAny sets and for PvP, 100s of pieces with tristat glyphs and gold item so we're talking millions upon millions of gold.

dcam86b14_ESO

Simple solution is to buy a chest with the multitude means possible. Place all your precious gold sets in there until you're ready. Not hard.

CleymenZero

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

Simple solution is to buy a chest with the multitude means possible. Place all your precious gold sets in there until you're ready. Not hard.

🤦‍♂️

Sure.

Ryath_Waylander

CleymenZero wrote: »

They've added more bank space in the past. Why? Because they keep introducing sets and changing others and can understand why we'd want to hold onto things? They're introducing a new item collection system. Why? Because they understand that they keep introducing new sets and admit they may need to allocate more bank space but don't want to cause it's just going to keep hogging precious server space?

I think this here hit the nail on the head. I am super happy with the collections idea because:
a) I only gold weapons and Jewelry
b) I have a lot of set pieces I kept for "just in case" that were never levelled or transmuted.

But

For sure, people that went to the expense of golding and transmuting (and prismatic Enchanting) will get the least benefit out of this change and really do need more storage space. It doesn't look like ZoS is going in that direction though. Gosh I'm glad I hung onto my SPC. I was sooo close to deconning it.