Weapon Crit or Phys Penetration for PVE Stamplar?

Adonexus

Hello,

I was wondering which of these is more important for a PvE Stamplar. Weapon Critical or Physical Penetration?

Thank you in advance

Dagoth_Rac

Physical Penetration is generally the best offensive stat. However, it is possible to over-penetrate an enemy, in which case any penetration beyond the enemy's physical resistance is wasted. This is very rare outside of well-coordinated, well-designed endgame Trial groups. If just doing solo content, or 4-man dungeons/arenas, or Trials with less than perfect groups, Physical Penetration is usually your best choice.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Assuming you are not at the penetration cap (about 18.2k), pen is going to generally outperform crit when its a trade off between the two. So for example, if it comes down to a 1 piece crit vs a 1 piece pen bonus, generally the later is better DPS.

The overriding question of how much pen do you need really comes down to your group. The answer for one group wont be the answer for another. The number one thing trial groups coordinate is the various sources of spell/weapon penetration. Once at the pen cap, crit is usually your next best offensive stat to worry about.

Everest_Lionheart

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Assuming you are not at the penetration cap (about 18.2k), pen is going to generally outperform crit when its a trade off between the two. So for example, if it comes down to a 1 piece crit vs a 1 piece pen bonus, generally the later is better DPS.

The overriding question of how much pen do you need really comes down to your group. The answer for one group wont be the answer for another. The number one thing trial groups coordinate is the various sources of spell/weapon penetration. Once at the pen cap, crit is usually your next best offensive stat to worry about.

Where and how do we calculate this? Which stats should we look at exactly? I’m interested to know so I can double and triple check my stam toons.

Adonexus

@Everest_Lionheart

I just found a post in the forums talking about this addon that actually displays your spell and weapon penetration. It's called Mitigation Percent. It works well so far.

@Dagoth_Rac and @Oreyn_Bearclaw
Thank you for your input. This helped me increase my DPS

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Assuming you are not at the penetration cap (about 18.2k), pen is going to generally outperform crit when its a trade off between the two. So for example, if it comes down to a 1 piece crit vs a 1 piece pen bonus, generally the later is better DPS.

The overriding question of how much pen do you need really comes down to your group. The answer for one group wont be the answer for another. The number one thing trial groups coordinate is the various sources of spell/weapon penetration. Once at the pen cap, crit is usually your next best offensive stat to worry about.

Where and how do we calculate this? Which stats should we look at exactly? I’m interested to know so I can double and triple check my stam toons.

There are a couple ways to know if you are on PC, otherwise, you just need to add it up. Most sources of penetration are fixed values and they are always simply additive to the best of my knowledge.

Examples of Sources of Penetration:
major/minor fracture
Sharp trait
light armor passives for magic
Alkosh Set
Crusher Enchant
Champion Points
Gear Bonuses

Sure I am missing some. Stam toons generally invest way more heavily into Penetration from their champion pts because medium armor doesnt boost physical penetration.

If on PC, you can always check you penetration in combat metrics at the end of a fight. There are addons that give you a little display window and there are also addons that beef up the character stat page pretty significantly.

The easiest way of course is to ask your raid leader how many CP pts to spend, assuming they are any good at their job. haha

Zodiarkslayer

@Adonexus ESO's damage calculation system is not linear. So the Question in itself is OFF target. A simple either or will always get you suboptimal results in the end. The answer is always: Both or, evern better, All!

The whole system is setup in a way that every decision to increase any stat by one more increment, has not only a cost of opportunity in itself, but also changes the costs of opportunity for all other stats on the following choice.

So as a result every choice has an efficiency attached. And your goal should be to search for the points on your specific build, where more penetration or crit becomes inefficient and then stop with it. That is the practical approach.

My personal experience from other Stamina Classes is that more than 9k to 10K Penetration is a waste, as well as more than 50% crit chance. After that weapon damage and crit damage are your best friends. If you have problems finding out where you stand and you don't want to or can't run addons, then a simple build editor might do the trick. I recommend the one from the uesp.net. It has this computed character stat called effective weapon power (right handside panel 21st line). It makes your choices compareable, but nothing more.

And regarding Stamina Templar: They dont have a class ability for the Major Fracture debuff. Maybe using Nightmothers Gaze is enough to boost your DPS. Not if your group can provide that for you, obviously.

JanTanhide

Here is what I use. It displays Spell and Physical Penetration on your U.I. anywhere you wish. Very useful. You can see the Penetration changing during combat such as when the Crusher enchant procs, or Caltrops are activated or anything else that changes the Penetration.

https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1933-PenTest.html

Everest_Lionheart

My takeaway from all this, us console users have some serious QOL issues with this game lol! I am armed with slightly more information though so thanks for all the answers. It’s definitely better than what I’m doing now which is basically guessing and hoping for the best.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

My takeaway from all this, us console users have some serious QOL issues with this game lol! I am armed with slightly more information though so thanks for all the answers. It’s definitely better than what I’m doing now which is basically guessing and hoping for the best.

I dont mean to start a massive debate, but yes, consoles are at a disadvantage in a lot of ways. Performance, input device options, UI, and addons are all superior on PC. The downside of course is that way more people have Consoles than gaming computers.

Luckily when it comes to pen, you can just do the math (all it takes is addition). Google is your friend on the specific values for the debuffs I mentioned above.

Everest_Lionheart

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

My takeaway from all this, us console users have some serious QOL issues with this game lol! I am armed with slightly more information though so thanks for all the answers. It’s definitely better than what I’m doing now which is basically guessing and hoping for the best.

I dont mean to start a massive debate, but yes, consoles are at a disadvantage in a lot of ways. Performance, input device options, UI, and addons are all superior on PC. The downside of course is that way more people have Consoles than gaming computers.

Luckily when it comes to pen, you can just do the math (all it takes is addition). Google is your friend on the specific values for the debuffs I mentioned above.

Oh you aren’t kidding there at all. I’m jealous about some of the add ons you guys have. There’s things in particular that hold us way back like the add on you guys gave with the skill timers. I would sell my left nut and kidney to have that functionality on XB1. To see the timers all in one place instead of half above the boss and half above you own status bar and always jumping around to a different position would change the game. Some skills don’t even have timers so you have to associate them with other timers and cast the skills together in the rotation.

It’s a mess, did this skill fire, IDK where’s the timer, wait no timer, but I don’t see my shade on screen, OK recast. Wait was it behind the Maw the entire time? Or when you get in that raid with 7 other magplar’s and it’s Saturday night at the disco. You’ll regularly hear someone say I can’t see ****! Me either man just keep spamming and hope for the best!

Fortunately with console life you can’t take it too seriously and you don’t have that guy so deep in his metrics that he calls out every member of a group when they drop the ball.

Maybe we’ll get a few bells and whistles on the next gen. I’m not holding my breath though!

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

My takeaway from all this, us console users have some serious QOL issues with this game lol! I am armed with slightly more information though so thanks for all the answers. It’s definitely better than what I’m doing now which is basically guessing and hoping for the best.

I dont mean to start a massive debate, but yes, consoles are at a disadvantage in a lot of ways. Performance, input device options, UI, and addons are all superior on PC. The downside of course is that way more people have Consoles than gaming computers.

Luckily when it comes to pen, you can just do the math (all it takes is addition). Google is your friend on the specific values for the debuffs I mentioned above.

Oh you aren’t kidding there at all. I’m jealous about some of the add ons you guys have. There’s things in particular that hold us way back like the add on you guys gave with the skill timers. I would sell my left nut and kidney to have that functionality on XB1. To see the timers all in one place instead of half above the boss and half above you own status bar and always jumping around to a different position would change the game. Some skills don’t even have timers so you have to associate them with other timers and cast the skills together in the rotation.

It’s a mess, did this skill fire, IDK where’s the timer, wait no timer, but I don’t see my shade on screen, OK recast. Wait was it behind the Maw the entire time? Or when you get in that raid with 7 other magplar’s and it’s Saturday night at the disco. You’ll regularly hear someone say I can’t see ****! Me either man just keep spamming and hope for the best!

Fortunately with console life you can’t take it too seriously and you don’t have that guy so deep in his metrics that he calls out every member of a group when they drop the ball.

Maybe we’ll get a few bells and whistles on the next gen. I’m not holding my breath though!

I think its funny that you specified your "left" nut, but you dont seem to have a preference on which kidney. LOL

For what kidneys go for on the black market, you could probably get a pretty sweet gaming rig.

Edit: on further review, I would say that you mean both left kidney and left nut. Either way, there is probably a better way to finance a new machine.

Everest_Lionheart

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

My takeaway from all this, us console users have some serious QOL issues with this game lol! I am armed with slightly more information though so thanks for all the answers. It’s definitely better than what I’m doing now which is basically guessing and hoping for the best.

I dont mean to start a massive debate, but yes, consoles are at a disadvantage in a lot of ways. Performance, input device options, UI, and addons are all superior on PC. The downside of course is that way more people have Consoles than gaming computers.

Luckily when it comes to pen, you can just do the math (all it takes is addition). Google is your friend on the specific values for the debuffs I mentioned above.

Oh you aren’t kidding there at all. I’m jealous about some of the add ons you guys have. There’s things in particular that hold us way back like the add on you guys gave with the skill timers. I would sell my left nut and kidney to have that functionality on XB1. To see the timers all in one place instead of half above the boss and half above you own status bar and always jumping around to a different position would change the game. Some skills don’t even have timers so you have to associate them with other timers and cast the skills together in the rotation.

It’s a mess, did this skill fire, IDK where’s the timer, wait no timer, but I don’t see my shade on screen, OK recast. Wait was it behind the Maw the entire time? Or when you get in that raid with 7 other magplar’s and it’s Saturday night at the disco. You’ll regularly hear someone say I can’t see ****! Me either man just keep spamming and hope for the best!

Fortunately with console life you can’t take it too seriously and you don’t have that guy so deep in his metrics that he calls out every member of a group when they drop the ball.

Maybe we’ll get a few bells and whistles on the next gen. I’m not holding my breath though!

I think its funny that you specified your "left" nut, but you dont seem to have a preference on which kidney. LOL

For what kidneys go for on the black market, you could probably get a pretty sweet gaming rig.

Edit: on further review, I would say that you mean both left kidney and left nut. Either way, there is probably a better way to finance a new machine.

It’s not a matter of financing it’s getting that purchase past the wife! 😆

I’m having a hard enough time selling her the idea of next gen Xbox. That’s her platform of choice by the way. Ever the pragmatist though she seems to be content on using this one until it dies. Just like our Mac that we replaced last year and wouldn’t die. It took Apple not supporting our 10 year old machine and other devices to get her to finally upgrade. Have 2 PC in the house already also. Work computer form her office and a backup in case that goes down.

I also got her to upgrade the TV and sound system this past year. Have to pick my battles carefully!

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

My takeaway from all this, us console users have some serious QOL issues with this game lol! I am armed with slightly more information though so thanks for all the answers. It’s definitely better than what I’m doing now which is basically guessing and hoping for the best.

I dont mean to start a massive debate, but yes, consoles are at a disadvantage in a lot of ways. Performance, input device options, UI, and addons are all superior on PC. The downside of course is that way more people have Consoles than gaming computers.

Luckily when it comes to pen, you can just do the math (all it takes is addition). Google is your friend on the specific values for the debuffs I mentioned above.

Oh you aren’t kidding there at all. I’m jealous about some of the add ons you guys have. There’s things in particular that hold us way back like the add on you guys gave with the skill timers. I would sell my left nut and kidney to have that functionality on XB1. To see the timers all in one place instead of half above the boss and half above you own status bar and always jumping around to a different position would change the game. Some skills don’t even have timers so you have to associate them with other timers and cast the skills together in the rotation.

It’s a mess, did this skill fire, IDK where’s the timer, wait no timer, but I don’t see my shade on screen, OK recast. Wait was it behind the Maw the entire time? Or when you get in that raid with 7 other magplar’s and it’s Saturday night at the disco. You’ll regularly hear someone say I can’t see ****! Me either man just keep spamming and hope for the best!

Fortunately with console life you can’t take it too seriously and you don’t have that guy so deep in his metrics that he calls out every member of a group when they drop the ball.

Maybe we’ll get a few bells and whistles on the next gen. I’m not holding my breath though!

I think its funny that you specified your "left" nut, but you dont seem to have a preference on which kidney. LOL

For what kidneys go for on the black market, you could probably get a pretty sweet gaming rig.

Edit: on further review, I would say that you mean both left kidney and left nut. Either way, there is probably a better way to finance a new machine.

It’s not a matter of financing it’s getting that purchase past the wife! 😆

I’m having a hard enough time selling her the idea of next gen Xbox. That’s her platform of choice by the way. Ever the pragmatist though she seems to be content on using this one until it dies. Just like our Mac that we replaced last year and wouldn’t die. It took Apple not supporting our 10 year old machine and other devices to get her to finally upgrade. Have 2 PC in the house already also. Work computer form her office and a backup in case that goes down.

I also got her to upgrade the TV and sound system this past year. Have to pick my battles carefully!

HAHA. I got engaged last October, the PC got a MAJOR overhaul in September. Not a coincidence. We also just redid the fireplace wall in the living room (with a 65inch OLED). It was the great compromise of our relationship (apparently TVs arent supposed to go above the mantel, who knew). I understand.

Athan1

wdym stamplar? Is that even a thing anymore?

stefj68

Athan1 wrote: »

wdym stamplar? Is that even a thing anymore?

well im waiting for a class change token for mine!

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Athan1 wrote: »

wdym stamplar? Is that even a thing anymore?

For PVE DPS, it's one of the best. Certainly the easiest way to break 90k on a trial dummy.

stefj68 wrote: »

Athan1 wrote: »

wdym stamplar? Is that even a thing anymore?

well im waiting for a class change token for mine!

You are going to be waiting a very long time.