Undaunted chest RNG is just ridiculous

Dovakhan

This is probably gonna become a ****fest of "OMG LOL DEAL WITH IT NOOB OLOLO" from those who already got their equipment and wanna feel superior to everybody else, but oh well...at least I tried.

Question is, is ANYBODY happy with the way how Undaunted chests work? Literally everybody I ask about this matter 100% says that it's absolute crap, and that they're absolutely tired of wasting Undaunted keys on equipment they don't want. As for me, I've been farming for two days with 4 characters (5 keys each) + used the 45 keys I had in store trying to get a certain piece, to no avail so far. No wonder that there's a lot of grumpy people doing the Undaunted dailies. Can't even blame them TBH.

My suggestion? Divide the chests so every set has it's own individual one (example, Shadows of the Hist I containing only Velidreth pieces, and Shadows of the Hist II containing only Mighty Chudan ones). That way, instead of having a 33% chance inside another 50% chance to get a certain piece, we could at least have a plain, unique 33% chance. That way it'd retain some of the *ahem* "thrill" of the RNG while not being just stupidly ridiculous as it is now.

After all, we've to do 3 Vet dungeons per try (or 2 Vet + 1 Normal). I'd say that we deserve better chances than that. Heck, even farming sets from dungeons is quicker. At least you can have up to 3 extra people looking them up for you.

WastedJoker

Possibly unrelated but I think every account should be allowed to sell one bound item per month.

Dusk_Coven

Even when they changed it to 5 keys per chest and reduced RNG, some people were still spending 100+ keys to get the shoulder they want in the correct weight. Except they are getting a lot less incidental loot -- only 1 shoulder instead of 5 and no extras.
Golden Vendor is better. Save your keys for event items which cost like 50 keys per.

Dovakhan

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Even when they changed it to 5 keys per chest and reduced RNG, some people were still spending 100+ keys to get the shoulder they want in the correct weight. Except they are getting a lot less incidental loot -- only 1 shoulder instead of 5 and no extras.
Golden Vendor is better. Save your keys for event items which cost like 50 keys per.

Oh yeah, great idea. Turns out that I want a Chudan piece, which was precisely the piece sold in the Golden Vendor like 1/2 weeks ago. How long do I have to wait for it to be sold again? A year or so?

So, your proposition is to stop playing a RNG game to depend on an even worse one. Great idea ¬¬

Also, I wasn't here when the Undaunted chests were even worse, but they sure aren't good yet IMO.

Everest_Lionheart

But I love getting 3 light Stormfist arm cops in a row all in well fitted when all I really need are Selene! Those go great with my 4 Maw heavy shoulders all in training trait. The RNG is comical. Have you tried farming for that Medusa or BSW inferno staff yet? Undaunted RNG is generous by comparison.

Dovakhan

Like I said, at least you can have help when farming in dungeons. I recently farmed 5 pieces in one and got them all in a single day. Heck, and even half of them were the trait I wanted. And same with a head piece in a DLC Vet dungeon (first try).

But now? I wasted 65 keys, got literally EVERYTHING the chest has to offer minus what I wanted, and got it 5 times the wrong weight. Yeah, extremely fun. I'm having such a blast xP

CaffeinatedMayhem

Strange as it may sound, if you want the meta shoulder piece, DON'T use the 5 key coffer, use the 1key. The 5-key coffers are heavily weighted towards 1 set, and it's generally the one no one wants.

I could *never* get Balorgh heavy shoulders out of the 5 key coffer, but I have 2 from the 1 Key.

Dovakhan

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

Strange as it may sound, if you want the meta shoulder piece, DON'T use the 5 key coffer, use the 1key. The 5-key coffers are heavily weighted towards 1 set, and it's generally the one no one wants.

I could *never* get Balorgh heavy shoulders out of the 5 key coffer, but I have 2 from the 1 Key.

Is that confirmed, or just theorycrafting? Cos out of my initial 45 keys, I got nearly everything Velidreth, and I think that it's precisely the set most people want.

I threw some spare keys into 1-key chests, just to try it. 0 luck. Never trying again. Don't fool yourself thinking that it has better RNG. I also got a Lord Warden piece that I needed once with a 1-key. But it was just pure luck.

universal_wrath

A tip for farming things. If you need a set, you should a different one to get what you want. If you want velidrith, wear chudan, velidrith will drop more, if you want selene, wear stormfist. If you want light armor, wear heavy/mdium armor. If you want magical weapon, wear a physical weapon. That is how RNG works in this game, for most part.

CaffeinatedMayhem

universal_wrath wrote: »

A tip for farming things. If you need a set, you should a different one to get what you want. If you want velidrith, wear chudan, velidrith will drop more, if you want selene, wear stormfist. If you want light armor, wear heavy/mdium armor. If you want magical weapon, wear a physical weapon. That is how RNG works in this game, for most part.

Actually wearing another set won't help. I was farming for Balorgh shoulders on my tank, who obviously wasn't wearing Balorgh.

Most people I've talked to have the same experience, the 5 key Wolfhunter coffers are heavily skewed to Vykosa and light Balorgh.

Same for when I needed Stonekeeper - only ever got Symphony, had to use the 1 key coffers.

If you actually read my statement, I didn't say "absolutely the one no one wants" I said "generally the one no one wants" because your example enforces that the 5 key coffers are weighted heavily to one set.

redspecter23

When I go for shoulders, I use the single key box so I get 5 times as many shoulders. Sure, it may not be the exact one I want, but I will keep any and all that have reasonable traits. Also, I just assume that when I find the one I do want, I will have to trait change it. The odds of finding the piece you want, in the weight you want, with the trait you want is ridiculously low.

With this strategy, I tend to do well over a long period of time. If, however, I needed a specific shoulder piece ASAP, it would probably get very frustrating.

Canned_Apples

10 chuudan, 1 veli

Pauwer

The undaunted chests are ok tbh. They used to be a nightmare. I'm very happy with the way they are now.

Dovakhan

Pauwer wrote: »

The undaunted chests are ok tbh. They used to be a nightmare. I'm very happy with the way they are now.

Yeah, until you spend two entire days and 65+ keys hunting the piece you want. We'll see how happy you are then :P

abzdeman

RNG is this game is just straight garbage and that is facts. Never use the 5 key undaunted keys it has terrible rng.

Guyle

Yep, its bad, and considering the way ZOS seesaws back and forth on what they buff and nerf, your best bet is to hold onto most shoulders you get. I have a toon dedicated to holding each monster sets shoulder piece in each of the weights for this very reason. Its just another way for ZOS to get us to chase a carrot.

Everest_Lionheart

redspecter23 wrote: »

When I go for shoulders, I use the single key box so I get 5 times as many shoulders. Sure, it may not be the exact one I want, but I will keep any and all that have reasonable traits. Also, I just assume that when I find the one I do want, I will have to trait change it. The odds of finding the piece you want, in the weight you want, with the trait you want is ridiculously low.

With this strategy, I tend to do well over a long period of time. If, however, I needed a specific shoulder piece ASAP, it would probably get very frustrating.

That DLC rando chest is getting way too watered down though. They need a 4th pledge or at least split the random coffers somehow.

Dovakhan

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

When I go for shoulders, I use the single key box so I get 5 times as many shoulders. Sure, it may not be the exact one I want, but I will keep any and all that have reasonable traits. Also, I just assume that when I find the one I do want, I will have to trait change it. The odds of finding the piece you want, in the weight you want, with the trait you want is ridiculously low.

With this strategy, I tend to do well over a long period of time. If, however, I needed a specific shoulder piece ASAP, it would probably get very frustrating.

That DLC rando chest is getting way too watered down though. They need a 4th pledge or at least split the random coffers somehow.

See OP. I made a suggestion on that regard.

redspecter23

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

When I go for shoulders, I use the single key box so I get 5 times as many shoulders. Sure, it may not be the exact one I want, but I will keep any and all that have reasonable traits. Also, I just assume that when I find the one I do want, I will have to trait change it. The odds of finding the piece you want, in the weight you want, with the trait you want is ridiculously low.

With this strategy, I tend to do well over a long period of time. If, however, I needed a specific shoulder piece ASAP, it would probably get very frustrating.

That DLC rando chest is getting way too watered down though. They need a 4th pledge or at least split the random coffers somehow.

I agree completely. They haven't futureproofed their own system. There are definitely ways to create a system that doesn't make it harder to get the thing you want as more dungeons are added.

Dovakhan

redspecter23 wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

When I go for shoulders, I use the single key box so I get 5 times as many shoulders. Sure, it may not be the exact one I want, but I will keep any and all that have reasonable traits. Also, I just assume that when I find the one I do want, I will have to trait change it. The odds of finding the piece you want, in the weight you want, with the trait you want is ridiculously low.

With this strategy, I tend to do well over a long period of time. If, however, I needed a specific shoulder piece ASAP, it would probably get very frustrating.

That DLC rando chest is getting way too watered down though. They need a 4th pledge or at least split the random coffers somehow.

I agree completely. They haven't futureproofed their own system. There are definitely ways to create a system that doesn't make it harder to get the thing you want as more dungeons are added.

You mean the 1-key chests? Hmm...

They could also divide it and put half in I and half in II, with a list in the description of the sets which each contains I guess.

redspecter23

Dovakhan wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

When I go for shoulders, I use the single key box so I get 5 times as many shoulders. Sure, it may not be the exact one I want, but I will keep any and all that have reasonable traits. Also, I just assume that when I find the one I do want, I will have to trait change it. The odds of finding the piece you want, in the weight you want, with the trait you want is ridiculously low.

With this strategy, I tend to do well over a long period of time. If, however, I needed a specific shoulder piece ASAP, it would probably get very frustrating.

That DLC rando chest is getting way too watered down though. They need a 4th pledge or at least split the random coffers somehow.

I agree completely. They haven't futureproofed their own system. There are definitely ways to create a system that doesn't make it harder to get the thing you want as more dungeons are added.

You mean the 1-key chests? Hmm...

They could also divide it and put half in I and half in II, with a list in the description of the sets which each contains I guess.

I think their idea was to add the 5 key option. That way (in theory) you always have a 50/50 chance of getting the set you want and a 1 in 6 chance of getting the set you want with the weight you want. Sounds great on paper at least.

For me? I'll take those 30+ keys and just get 30 assorted shoulders from a larger list. I might get 2 or 3 I will use at some point, if not right away. If I use the 5 key buy, I may just end up deconning anything I don't want.

They could just remove more of the RNG and at least let you buy the specific set you want, then you only fight 2 layers of RNG, the weight and trait and the trait can be changed if needed. I suppose they would probably charge 12+ keys for that privilege though. Then if you need a specific weight, you're looking at a hefty amount of keys.

vgabor

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

A tip for farming things. If you need a set, you should a different one to get what you want. If you want velidrith, wear chudan, velidrith will drop more, if you want selene, wear stormfist. If you want light armor, wear heavy/mdium armor. If you want magical weapon, wear a physical weapon. That is how RNG works in this game, for most part.

Actually wearing another set won't help. I was farming for Balorgh shoulders on my tank, who obviously wasn't wearing Balorgh.

Most people I've talked to have the same experience, the 5 key Wolfhunter coffers are heavily skewed to Vykosa and light Balorgh.

Same for when I needed Stonekeeper - only ever got Symphony, had to use the 1 key coffers.

If you actually read my statement, I didn't say "absolutely the one no one wants" I said "generally the one no one wants" because your example enforces that the 5 key coffers are weighted heavily to one set.

Based on my - and what I see from others - experiences they have a failed (semi)random generator implementation in the game for loot drops which only globally has even distribution but not individually.

My guess that they using the players account as seed for the random generator so the randoms for the individual player skewed one way or other: some players consistently find harder vma inferno or a specific undaunted shoulder while for other players these items are easy to get and other items are hard.

This evens out on the global scale across players so ZOS see an evenly distributed drop rate in their global statistics across the whole player base, but individual players are experiencing consistently skewed drops. In other words it means that while the global drop rate for a specific undaunted shoulder or vma item is X% globally across players, your actual drop rate is a different Y% which either less or more than X, depending on which way the seed to the random generator skewed for you on that particular item.

Dovakhan

redspecter23 wrote: »

Dovakhan wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

When I go for shoulders, I use the single key box so I get 5 times as many shoulders. Sure, it may not be the exact one I want, but I will keep any and all that have reasonable traits. Also, I just assume that when I find the one I do want, I will have to trait change it. The odds of finding the piece you want, in the weight you want, with the trait you want is ridiculously low.

With this strategy, I tend to do well over a long period of time. If, however, I needed a specific shoulder piece ASAP, it would probably get very frustrating.

That DLC rando chest is getting way too watered down though. They need a 4th pledge or at least split the random coffers somehow.

I agree completely. They haven't futureproofed their own system. There are definitely ways to create a system that doesn't make it harder to get the thing you want as more dungeons are added.

You mean the 1-key chests? Hmm...

They could also divide it and put half in I and half in II, with a list in the description of the sets which each contains I guess.

I think their idea was to add the 5 key option. That way (in theory) you always have a 50/50 chance of getting the set you want and a 1 in 6 chance of getting the set you want with the weight you want. Sounds great on paper at least.

For me? I'll take those 30+ keys and just get 30 assorted shoulders from a larger list. I might get 2 or 3 I will use at some point, if not right away. If I use the 5 key buy, I may just end up deconning anything I don't want.

They could just remove more of the RNG and at least let you buy the specific set you want, then you only fight 2 layers of RNG, the weight and trait and the trait can be changed if needed. I suppose they would probably charge 12+ keys for that privilege though. Then if you need a specific weight, you're looking at a hefty amount of keys.

Frankly, I'd prefer for a concrete piece of armor to cost 50 keys (just an example), than the 5-key RNG's. That way, after finishing a dungeon I'd know that I'd be moving forward towards my objective, instead of finishing it and thinking "and now, to waste my **** keys on something that I surely don't want, great :P"

That'd be another option: to add the items directly in the store, even if they're way more expensive then their RNG boxes. That way you'd have the option to either buy it at full price, or to try your luck at 5 keys per attempt. In fact, I think that they already do that in the IC vendors, if my memory serves me well.

Everest_Lionheart

redspecter23 wrote: »

Dovakhan wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

When I go for shoulders, I use the single key box so I get 5 times as many shoulders. Sure, it may not be the exact one I want, but I will keep any and all that have reasonable traits. Also, I just assume that when I find the one I do want, I will have to trait change it. The odds of finding the piece you want, in the weight you want, with the trait you want is ridiculously low.

With this strategy, I tend to do well over a long period of time. If, however, I needed a specific shoulder piece ASAP, it would probably get very frustrating.

That DLC rando chest is getting way too watered down though. They need a 4th pledge or at least split the random coffers somehow.

I agree completely. They haven't futureproofed their own system. There are definitely ways to create a system that doesn't make it harder to get the thing you want as more dungeons are added.

You mean the 1-key chests? Hmm...

They could also divide it and put half in I and half in II, with a list in the description of the sets which each contains I guess.

I think their idea was to add the 5 key option. That way (in theory) you always have a 50/50 chance of getting the set you want and a 1 in 6 chance of getting the set you want with the weight you want. Sounds great on paper at least.

For me? I'll take those 30+ keys and just get 30 assorted shoulders from a larger list. I might get 2 or 3 I will use at some point, if not right away. If I use the 5 key buy, I may just end up deconning anything I don't want.

They could just remove more of the RNG and at least let you buy the specific set you want, then you only fight 2 layers of RNG, the weight and trait and the trait can be changed if needed. I suppose they would probably charge 12+ keys for that privilege though. Then if you need a specific weight, you're looking at a hefty amount of keys.

What I was trying to say way for the single key chests you have 12 total sets from Maj, 12 from Glirion and as of today 18 from Urgarlag’s boxes. The pool is much more watered down from the DLC boxes. So for 1 key from either of Maj or Glirion you have 12 possible options multiplied by 8 traits and 3 weights for a 1/288 chance of getting the piece you desire. Urgarlag’s boxes are 18 times 8 traits and 3 weights or 1/432 chance.

The loot table from the DLC mystery box is getting too large and therefore watered down.

NSatin

I won't pretend I'm not frustrated grinding for medium Selene's for a solid two, three weeks now, but I also spent ten years play Final Fantasy XI. Compared to FFXI, it's hard for me to complain about the difficulty of acquiring endgame or pseudo-endgame gear. You could legitimately go years in FFXI trying to acquire a single piece. ESO's various systems are not even remotely close to that.

LashanW

Me trying to get a sentinel medium shoulder...

Most of the time I end up spending 50+ keys to get the shoulder with the weight I'm looking for, and I don't even care about the trait. I don't like this rng.

Ackwalan

LashanW wrote: »

Me trying to get a sentinel medium shoulder...

Most of the time I end up spending 50+ keys to get the shoulder with the weight I'm looking for, and I don't even care about the trait. I don't like this rng.

There is something most certainly flawed with the way RNG works in this game. There are thimes when it seems to get "stuck" on one result. Whenever I'm doing some that involves RNG like opening boxes and I get the same result 3 times in a row, I stop and try again the next day.

Soulshine

LashanW wrote: »

Me trying to get a sentinel medium shoulder...

Most of the time I end up spending 50+ keys to get the shoulder with the weight I'm looking for, and I don't even care about the trait. I don't like this rng.

I have Symphony and Nightflame as go to sets for my healer, but have been trying to get Sentinel shoulders for months. I get Engine Guardian every single time in every trait and wait there is out of 5 key boxes, but not a single Sentinel. Lost more keys that I can count now. Have also been doing trails and dungeons again on a daily basis and have only gotten tanking or stamina dps gear for my healer as drops. It is really discouraging, but it's clear they have no intention of changing the system. no matter how many people complain about it, or for how long.

WAI.

Everest_Lionheart

Soulshine wrote: »

LashanW wrote: »

Me trying to get a sentinel medium shoulder...

Most of the time I end up spending 50+ keys to get the shoulder with the weight I'm looking for, and I don't even care about the trait. I don't like this rng.

I have Symphony and Nightflame as go to sets for my healer, but have been trying to get Sentinel shoulders for months. I get Engine Guardian every single time in every trait and wait there is out of 5 key boxes, but not a single Sentinel. Lost more keys that I can count now. Have also been doing trails and dungeons again on a daily basis and have only gotten tanking or stamina dps gear for my healer as drops. It is really discouraging, but it's clear they have no intention of changing the system. no matter how many people complain about it, or for how long.

WAI.

I have been lucky for Siroria and False Gods inferno staves on my first try but of course as luck would have it some dozen plus runs later I’m still missing pieces to complete the set.

And there is the run I had last night, my first ever run of vDSA and I got the perfected healing staff my healer was looking for and he traded me the perfected lightning staff that dropped for my Templar. Of course I was really there for the DW for my stamblade which nobody got. Maybe next time, but that’s a grind within a grind within a grind to finish. If there wa one place I wish we could at minimum choose a weapon type it would be the arenas.

Dovakhan

NSatin wrote: »

I won't pretend I'm not frustrated grinding for medium Selene's for a solid two, three weeks now, but I also spent ten years play Final Fantasy XI. Compared to FFXI, it's hard for me to complain about the difficulty of acquiring endgame or pseudo-endgame gear. You could legitimately go years in FFXI trying to acquire a single piece. ESO's various systems are not even remotely close to that.

A game where you must spend "years" to grab a certain piece isn't really neither a good comparison, or reference. Just because there's something worse doesn't make something else good.

And monster sets aren't end game content by far. Any CP 160 with good equipment and who minimally knows what he's doing can start farming them.

zaria

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

Strange as it may sound, if you want the meta shoulder piece, DON'T use the 5 key coffer, use the 1key. The 5-key coffers are heavily weighted towards 1 set, and it's generally the one no one wants.

I could *never* get Balorgh heavy shoulders out of the 5 key coffer, but I have 2 from the 1 Key.

Now something like crown crate logger would be nice for other drops to to point out the weighting.

Remember back then farming SPC, no reso staff or jewelry at all outside the named blue neck from quest. After we got olorime spc has standard drop chances.

No the game does not look at that you are wearing or who build you are.
It would be too complex and too easy to exploit, but popular sets tend to be weighted against and have lower drop chances.