Is StamDK dead class in pve

p4l4mu7

Stamdk was my main since 2015 until they introduced "poop fist". This skill killed all the fun for me, after dot nerfs stamdk was already the weakest dd for pve and it got a terrible spammable. Since then I only use my stamdk as a crafter. Stamdk was super fun to play when we had noxious breath as spammable or even with the vma daggers. Yes we can still use those but even with the bis setup stamdk is the weakest dd atm, and using alternative skills is not even an option for endgame.
I'm curious what other dk mains thinking about the current situation of the class,

ArchMikem

No, it's still fun to play

DK has always been difficult for me to get comfortable, except for just recently. Swamp Raider with Deadly Strike, and Rapid Strikes is my spammable. I'm doing pretty well with it.

Hapexamendios

No, it's still fun to play

I'm using Rapid Strikes as s spammable too. Veli, Morag Tong and Deadly Strike.

My other DK is a Tank.

Banana

No, it's still fun to play

Solo for me Bloodspawn Eternal Vigor and Briarheart with Dizzy swinging

Dragonnord

You call almost 90k in 21m dummy (more in trial) weak and dead? Hahahahahahahahaha!
 

BisDasBlutGefriert

No, it's still fun to play

I slapped on the defiler and unfathomable darkness sets on my dk, and it's pretty fun to mess around with on quests and world bosses haha.

Skullstachio

A Stamina Dragonknight is still a good DPS, Heck I have a DPS main and he was my very first character ever created.

The only thing that’s dead are the Toxic elitists that would think otherwise, for a few reasons oddly enough.

1. They are very rude to people who are just getting into end game activities or at least do not have the patience or time to actually help anyone. (Only an extremely small amount of end-gamers actually help people)
2. Their very actions dissuade other potential end game trial doers from ever being able to achieve a milestone they seek.
3. They almost never, Ever, play by specific trial based mechanics because they think they can just DPS through a trial and act like it’s too easy when it isn’t. (When someone hands you a platter, there is always a catch.)

If you want advice, stick to what “YOU” think is best, if something goes wrong, Remember it and improve upon what you have already, Failure is often and always shall be our greatest teacher. Also, a dead DPS is no DPS, play by the mechanics, deal damage, survive by playing by the mechanics, and your patience will be well rewarded by the universe in a specific moment in time.

Kurat

Skullstachio wrote: »

A Stamina Dragonknight is still a good DPS, Heck I have a DPS main and he was my very first character ever created.

The only thing that’s dead are the Toxic elitists that would think otherwise, for a few reasons oddly enough.

1. They are very rude to people who are just getting into end game activities or at least do not have the patience or time to actually help anyone. (Only an extremely small amount of end-gamers actually help people)
2. Their very actions dissuade other potential end game trial doers from ever being able to achieve a milestone they seek.
3. They almost never, Ever, play by specific trial based mechanics because they think they can just DPS through a trial and act like it’s too easy when it isn’t. (When someone hands you a platter, there is always a catch.)

If you want advice, stick to what “YOU” think is best, if something goes wrong, Remember it and improve upon what you have already, Failure is often and always shall be our greatest teacher. Also, a dead DPS is no DPS, play by the mechanics, deal damage, survive by playing by the mechanics, and your patience will be well rewarded by the universe in a specific moment in time.

Lmao
Stam DK is unfortunately below average dps atm but you can still quest and RP with it I guess.

Pterion87

Stonefist

Being Main dk, I can't agree more. Objectively it is the worst stamina class, by far. I keep insisting that it is part of the class skills. Of all the skills he possesses, he barely has 4 with a stamina morph, that makes the synergy between active and passive skills very very poor. Having a stamcro with passives such as: 15% dot damage, execution mechanics for sloted skills, 1500 penetration, 200 mag and stam recovery for having pet, even the colossus, etc. Not counting the morphs of almost all active skills, their stamina counterpart ... There is little (or no) reason to use a stam dk in pve, less with the horrible spammable it has right now.

thalosdaedra

no

Integral1900

They can still work just fine, the main problem is ZOS keeps changing its mind about what they want the class to be.

Seems ever since they started introducing these tedious poison skills this class has been wandering around in Purgatory in terms of its theme.

I miss my stamina Dragon Knight being able to turn the foe into little piles of cigarette ash in gouts of flame. Let’s face it, the main reason you play magic is because the death animations are so much cooler. Stamina ones are just dull, dull, dull.

I remember what the class used to be, a massive armour plated, slow-moving force of nature with a huge flaming sword knocking opponents up into the air before leap slamming them into the underworld.

The class in its current form is a pale imitation of the fun it used to be. But then again we can’t steal the necromancers thunder can we, if you have to buy a class then it needs to be the best I suppose. Although that doesn’t explain the warden LOL

CasgarTheSomnolent

No, it's still fun to play

*watches Xynode's All About Mechanics videos where he always mains a stamDK*

I'm gonna say no.

p4l4mu7

Stonefist

Dragonnord wrote: »

You call almost 90k in 21m dummy (more in trial) weak and dead? Hahahahahahahahaha!
 

I call almost 90k weak meanwhile other classes are over 90k yes.

Skullstachio wrote: »

A Stamina Dragonknight is still a good DPS, Heck I have a DPS main and he was my very first character ever created.

The only thing that’s dead are the Toxic elitists that would think otherwise, for a few reasons oddly enough.

1. They are very rude to people who are just getting into end game activities or at least do not have the patience or time to actually help anyone. (Only an extremely small amount of end-gamers actually help people)
2. Their very actions dissuade other potential end game trial doers from ever being able to achieve a milestone they seek.
3. They almost never, Ever, play by specific trial based mechanics because they think they can just DPS through a trial and act like it’s too easy when it isn’t. (When someone hands you a platter, there is always a catch.)

If you want advice, stick to what “YOU” think is best, if something goes wrong, Remember it and improve upon what you have already, Failure is often and always shall be our greatest teacher. Also, a dead DPS is no DPS, play by the mechanics, deal damage, survive by playing by the mechanics, and your patience will be well rewarded by the universe in a specific moment in time.

CasgarTheSomnolent wrote: »

*watches Xynode's All About Mechanics videos where he always mains a stamDK*

I'm gonna say no.

Don't get me wrong you can still role play and do casual trials with it. I'm talking about leaderboard score push and actual hardcore endgame play where stamdk doesn't have place. I'm not making the rules, it is what it is. If you want to run a vCR+3 or vSS hm any hm content you can still participate as a stamdk and do decent job with the class since your group will also be flawed and score is not the goal there, you don't need to optimise for casual content. But the second you decide to join a score push stamdk has no place there. Stamdk has serious problems in actual endgame.

LegendaryOaks

Stonefist

in the top tier score pushing veteran trials stamina dragonknights wont be very popular due to being at the lower end of dps with stamina sorcerer and stamina warden, and providing no group support unlike stamina necromancer. furthermore, dragonknight tanks are still expected to stone fist and use engulfling flames, despite zos's attempts to keep them dps only skills. these problems also extends to magicka dragonknight as well

however stamdk still has a place in veteran trials if
a. your dk tank isnt very good at stonefist uptime, or you dont even have a dk tank.
b. you parse higher compared to other players the raid lead can pick.
c. your guild sees you as a person with a heart and soul and not a number.

p4l4mu7

Stonefist

LegendaryOaks wrote: »

in the top tier score pushing veteran trials stamina dragonknights wont be very popular due to being at the lower end of dps with stamina sorcerer and stamina warden, and providing no group support unlike stamina necromancer. furthermore, dragonknight tanks are still expected to stone fist and use engulfling flames, despite zos's attempts to keep them dps only skills. these problems also extends to magicka dragonknight as well

however stamdk still has a place in veteran trials if
a. your dk tank isnt very good at stonefist uptime, or you dont even have a dk tank.
b. you parse higher compared to other players the raid lead can pick.
c. your guild sees you as a person with a heart and soul and not a number.

I was telling the same thing on my comment above. I definitely agree with you.
Right now it is magicka meta and groups are optimised for mag. But when it turns to stamina stamina sorcerer will have an important place in groups. Stamsorc can pull 91-92k atm and they can reduce the targets armor allowing group to remove points from piercing and moreover providing some extra crit. But on the other hand I don't see people using stamdk, stamden in score runs.

Luke_Flamesword

StamDK is my main since beginning (I play from July 2019) and I play as Breton. This means that I don't have highest meta DPS but it's good in almost all content. Why? Because more magicka and cheaper magicka skills in DK means a lot of possibilities. I don't use magicka for damage (hybrid don't work good enough so I'm pure stamina) but with Breton I can a lot especially in PVP. Fiery Grip for pulling, Spiked Armor or Obsidian Shield for defense, Dark Talons or Petrify for stunning, Dragon Blood or Cauterize for healing. Also I can use Soul Trap for damage. In PvP I use Torc for sustain so when my stamina is low - I focus on magicka skills (buffs, heals, stuns, soul trap damage) and in meantime my stamina backs, so I rarely don't have any usefull resources. In Cyrodill it gives a lot of survability and good enough damage.

In PvE of course I focus more on stamina abilities and I need VO for sustain with my Breton, but with my non-meta build DPS is still decent and I have higer survability than others. I had a lot of situations in veteran content where whole group was wipeout except me and I saved the day by resing everyone or killing almost dead boss. 2-3 weeks ago I did for first time vMA in one evening and I died only 50 times (mostly at final stage, because I just learned it). I did ice troll stahe at second attempt and in stage 7 there was only couple attempts.

Highest DPS meta is overrated - it works when everyone in team (especially tanks and healers) are also perfect meta players. Sites with builds like Alcast are desgined for perfect scnearios, but if you PUGing a lot - it will be rarely that. So for PUGs, even at veteran StamDK is awesome if you smart. If you want perfect meta in vet DLC trials, than stam DK is weak. I won't make characters for vet DLC trials because it's not even 1% of game content.

emilyhyoyeon

Stonefist

I really can't speak for anything other than I agree that the stonefist change was just not good design. It just doesn't suit what a stamina dk's spammable thematically would be.

p4l4mu7

Stonefist

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

StamDK is my main since beginning (I play from July 2019) and I play as Breton. This means that I don't have highest meta DPS but it's good in almost all content. Why? Because more magicka and cheaper magicka skills in DK means a lot of possibilities. I don't use magicka for damage (hybrid don't work good enough so I'm pure stamina) but with Breton I can a lot especially in PVP. Fiery Grip for pulling, Spiked Armor or Obsidian Shield for defense, Dark Talons or Petrify for stunning, Dragon Blood or Cauterize for healing. Also I can use Soul Trap for damage. In PvP I use Torc for sustain so when my stamina is low - I focus on magicka skills (buffs, heals, stuns, soul trap damage) and in meantime my stamina backs, so I rarely don't have any usefull resources. In Cyrodill it gives a lot of survability and good enough damage.

In PvE of course I focus more on stamina abilities and I need VO for sustain with my Breton, but with my non-meta build DPS is still decent and I have higer survability than others. I had a lot of situations in veteran content where whole group was wipeout except me and I saved the day by resing everyone or killing almost dead boss. 2-3 weeks ago I did for first time vMA in one evening and I died only 50 times (mostly at final stage, because I just learned it). I did ice troll stahe at second attempt and in stage 7 there was only couple attempts.

Highest DPS meta is overrated - it works when everyone in team (especially tanks and healers) are also perfect meta players. Sites with builds like Alcast are desgined for perfect scnearios, but if you PUGing a lot - it will be rarely that. So for PUGs, even at veteran StamDK is awesome if you smart. If you want perfect meta in vet DLC trials, than stam DK is weak. I won't make characters for vet DLC trials because it's not even 1% of game content.

At this point I'm amazed people insist to comment without reading anything. I didn't create this post for casual players, if you want you can run around with bow and destro staff or any build you created yourself that is not the point. We are talking about the endgame here. I said it million times here you can roleplay and run around with any build you want we're not talking about it. Stamdk is the weakest dd class at the moment and has no place in endgame score runs. I'm talking about maybe the 5-10% of the player base being affected by the changes on stamina dk. It doesn't matter if you're a breton or using mag skills on a "stamdd" you can do those casual contents even naked without any armor. There's no such thing as highest dps meta, if you were picking your raid team by dps only core groups would be filled with 8 magblade dds in right now. Stamdk doesn't bring anything special to table as tank are running stonefist anyway and its low dps only cripple groups.

Dragonnord

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

I call almost 90k weak meanwhile other classes are over 90k yes.

LOL! That doesn't mean the other class is weak and dead as you called it.

So If a class does 95k and other class does 92k, the second class is dead? And if one class does 91k and the other class does 89k the second class is dead?

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Luke_Flamesword

At this point I'm amazed people insist to comment without reading anything. I didn't create this post for casual players, if you want you can run around with bow and destro staff or any build you created yourself that is not the point. We are talking about the endgame here. I said it million times here you can roleplay and run around with any build you want we're not talking about it.

I'm talking about endgame either - pvp is endgame, veteran dungeons are endgame, vMA is endgame and sDK can perform very well on this. I played recently Stone Garden on veteran (it's not the hardest vet dungeons, but quite demanding) and I survived some team wipeouts and save long boss fight by killing boss with a lots of adds and AOEs (it was chaos). So pls don't talk to me about overland roleplayers...

Yours point of view is very flat because you see only DPS numbers but too be a really good player you need to see more - team play, survability, sustain, being flexible, fight strategy or smart use of mechanics. And if you look wider, you can see that sDK even with some serious flaws, still have a very strong non-DPS advantages. You need to know a class and think outside the box if you want to benefit it.

caperon

Stonefist

vMA end game? Let me laugh in:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/517916/zos-vision-of-skill-gap

Yes, stamdk is dead in decent groups for 2 reasons. Right now the meta is magicka groups (although stamgroups should do very well this patch with the changes to alkosh, and some specific sets like morag tong) and stamdk only brings to the group the stagger debuff that is not terrible but a good dk tank can keep it, all this while doing *** dps. Not great aoe, bad single target, no execute (execute phases are important).

There is not much to do, the nature of the endgame pve is bring all the buffs and then fill the rest with the best performing classes,, and stamdk is not it. Maybe in a future patch.

p4l4mu7

Stonefist

Dragonnord wrote: »

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

I call almost 90k weak meanwhile other classes are over 90k yes.

LOL! That doesn't mean the other class is weak and dead as you called it.

So If a class does 95k and other class does 92k, the second class is dead? And if one class does 91k and the other class does 89k the second class is dead?

[snip]

"LOL!, Hahahahahahaha!!!" No I don't see a kid here at all. That's a one way to make point.
I'm sure you'll get mature enough to understand the point one day. Stamdk has much less dps then other classes and unlike other classes it doesn't have anything special that will make groups prefer it, tanks are using stonefist anyway. Right now stamdk is a dead class yes and it's probably hard as you only think about numbers dps this dps that, like it or not this is the situation of stamdk. Also I'm not answering to your next reply filled with childish behaviour.

Even if necromancer had 5k less dps it would be in raid groups for colossus, even if magdk had 5k less dps then all the classes it would be in raid groups for engulfind etc.
I tried to make it as simple as possible for you so can figure it out already.

Everest_Lionheart

Stam anything doesn’t seem to be that popular for endgame progression trials. I main a Stamden and while he’s welcome in the more casual runs, the groups that are more serious prefer me to run my magplar or MagDK instead.

I did make a stamblade for this patch because they got some super juicy buffs. But even then the progression guys asked why I didn’t make a magblade instead. I need a break from magicka after making 2 toons in a row and grinding mages/psijic to flesh them both out.

That’s just where stam is right now. Honestly I have fun with the casuals because I can try stuff and not be judged. We all die, we laugh and we hit it again. Progression runs get too tense sometimes.

p4l4mu7

Stonefist

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

At this point I'm amazed people insist to comment without reading anything. I didn't create this post for casual players, if you want you can run around with bow and destro staff or any build you created yourself that is not the point. We are talking about the endgame here. I said it million times here you can roleplay and run around with any build you want we're not talking about it.

I'm talking about endgame either - pvp is endgame, veteran dungeons are endgame, vMA is endgame and sDK can perform very well on this. I played recently Stone Garden on veteran (it's not the hardest vet dungeons, but quite demanding) and I survived some team wipeouts and save long boss fight by killing boss with a lots of adds and AOEs (it was chaos). So pls don't talk to me about overland roleplayers...
Yours point of view is very flat because you see only DPS numbers but too be a really good player you need to see more - team play, survability, sustain, being flexible, fight strategy or smart use of mechanics. And if you look wider, you can see that sDK even with some serious flaws, still have a very strong non-DPS advantages. You need to know a class and think outside the box if you want to benefit it.

vMA is not endgame just search it on youtube and you'll see people below cp100 doing flawless (nodeath) vMA runs, vet dungeons are not endgame, pvp is not endgame none of this is endgame. You can go and complete vMA with little to no cp. Only hardmodes of dlc dungeons can be considered as endgame (though half of them is super easy after nerfs) not vet dungeons. PvP is not about gear or cp any player can be succesful in pvp in time. We're talking about content such as Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, TTT, IR.
Completing a vet dungeon won't make you an endgame player, go to Craglorn and type lf3m stonegarden you'll get a random group and most likely complete it. You might not be an overland roleplayer but you can't assume you know the endgame a year after starting the game. You will see what I mean in time.


And still talking without reading, you really amaze me.
"team play, survability, sustain, being flexible, fight strategy or smart use of mechanics." Everybody in those score runs are already benefitting from 100% of their class' potential. Don't try to teach me. None of my them die in a score push, they don't run out of resources, they don't miss mechanics. And yes you can tie them and give them a naked character they will play better than you no doubt. When they're all playing flawless why would they pick a crippled class and bring group down tell me that. All classes have a reason to be in a trial group, they have important passives that allow group to reach highest potential, people don't pick classes randomly when they create a core group for these content and stamdk has nothing.
Why would any of them pick stamdk while they can pick much better option. We are not talking about numbers here and you insist on not understanding it yet trying to argue.

We calculate the slightest changes while creating those groups for world scores and yet here you are telling me it's not about numbers guys, wow why didn't I think of that.

p4l4mu7

Stonefist

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Stam anything doesn’t seem to be that popular for endgame progression trials. I main a Stamden and while he’s welcome in the more casual runs, the groups that are more serious prefer me to run my magplar or MagDK instead.

I did make a stamblade for this patch because they got some super juicy buffs. But even then the progression guys asked why I didn’t make a magblade instead. I need a break from magicka after making 2 toons in a row and grinding mages/psijic to flesh them both out.

That’s just where stam is right now. Honestly I have fun with the casuals because I can try stuff and not be judged. We all die, we laugh and we hit it again. Progression runs get too tense sometimes.

Stamina will be the better option again eventually.
Summerset chapter made magicka dds superior.
Then Elsweyr made stamina dds supeior.
And in Greymoor magicka dds are the better option.
It is just a cycle contantly moving on. So don't worry about it stamina will definitely make a comeback and will be the preffered option for trials.

NoSoup

Stam DK dps is still fine for all end game content and is still my main go to. Yes, dps numbers arn't quite as high as my blade or Necro but I find my survivability so much higher on my stamdk that it's my preference for vet trails. If you're complaining cause it's not your first choice for HM score runs then I kinda feel like your preferences are moot, you'll always be jumping on your absolute highest dps character. If that's the content your chasing then your priorities need to change, all over content is easily achievable on stamdk....

Onefrkncrzypope

Stonefist

The problem is that SDK are so much more difficult to get a decent dps parse that it feels dead.

Dead to me, doesn't mean can't it means it's difficult to enjoy. 2100 hours on my SDK and I'm just glad I can tank to.

I'll keep parsing but I don't feel comfortable with it in group anymore. I don't like hurting my group for my preference.

ArchMikem

No, it's still fun to play

When I replied I thought this was a simple "iz good ur bad?" poll. Now its turned into an elitist argument. Reading all these 1%er opinions and here I am, asking myself "isn't this game supposed to be about having fun and not working a second job?".

Guyle

No, it's still fun to play

I do pretty damn good with my stamDK in pretty much everything I bring it to lol. Is the dps ceiling lower than other classes? Yes, but not by an immense amount. Does it lack group support? Yes, unless you dont have a DK tank, or the DK tank doesnt do a lot of ***. To be fair though, I dont see a lot of tanks using it, at least never enough to get and keep full stacks of it. I have taken it into and done fine with it in pretty much all content, cleared vAS+2, vMoL HM, vKA, Craglorn HMs, vHoF HM, and vCR+2 as a portal dps. Haven't gotten around to doing the vCR+3 yet, haven't even set foot back in vKA to do the HMs after getting the vet clear a week after it came out, and my group just got back into vSS to do the HMs, which Nahvi is the only one we havent done yet. Does it have a place in the tip of the top, score pushing, going for trifecta groups that represent less than 1% of the player base? Not so much, however it has no problem with anything else. I play with some pretty good players actually, and I have no trouble being towards the top of the dps. A skilled player can do a little more with other classes than they can do with a StamDK - for some people that means dead, but for the vast majority of players who could care less, its perfectly alive and fine.

edit: I love that they censored the verb form of Stone Fist

Guyle

No, it's still fun to play

Let me be clear though, I would love it if they added a little more group synergy to the class so I could in fact do some score pushing, trifecta chasing with it. Alas, ZOS's tendency to make it harder for melee and neglecting the stamDK means that is not likely anytime soon.

newtinmpls

BisDasBlutGefriert wrote: »

I slapped on the defiler and unfathomable darkness sets on my dk, and it's pretty fun to mess around with on quests and world bosses haha.

Great minds think alike, apparently. I redid my Dunmer Stamsorc to an "army build"
-Both pets, aggressive morphs (granted as the pets are magicka based, it's less effective on a stamsorc, but its so much fun)
-Defiler and Unfathomable Darkness
-Maw of the Infernal (otherwise known as "The Dave Helm")

She can be a bit underpowered on single bosses with annoying mechanics, but this little army wades through mobs.

Let me think; my friend's build is:
-Defiler and Aegis (hard to get but really really effective)
-"Dave" Helm
She is a bit more maximized, and cuts through everything like a truck through butter