Unkillable stamina builds. Whats its about?

Frozen_Heart246

Hey folks. This is not whining post. Just a simple interest. Would be great if someone will clear one thing to me. Why stamina wardens/dks can survive 10+ ppl at once? Not just potato peoples who light attacking only but guys who are 40+rank with full damage builds. Are they using health regen builds? They are not clear tanks either because the damage from them is insane. That's not LoS thing aswell.

I tried to make warden myself with 30k resists 5.3k wpd and 3k crit resists. And... this not working at all. I'm using 2 piece heavy scourge harvester all medium ancient dragon guard+new moon with nirn maul. my buffs and heals are active 100% but still damage I get is more then my heals can handle even in block in duel with 1 guy! Not 2 or 5 but with one lol.

My guess they are running heavy armor builds but where they get sustain for blocking and dodging?

So i'm not asking for builds here (would be great tho) but a tips or directions where to look.

Nord_Raseri

I do that on a mag build. Edit: nevermind, I should not have skimmed your post. I have tanky stam toons with decent damage but nothing like what you're talking about. As for my previously mentioned mag build, I am very, very hard to kill, but hit like a soggy wet noodle.

AMeanOne

One thing to keep in mind, a 40+ pvp rank doesn't mean they can't be a potato. Lots of 5 star potatoes out there.

NinchiTV

Because nords and orcs exist. So you can build for WD and recov pretty easy, and dodge roll is amazing OP compared to anything mag builds have to damage mitigation, and of course blocking. And more specifically DKs and wardens are very stocky so you put the nord in there and build for damage and there ya go.

Fawn4287

Hulking, alessian, troll king/kena, arteum takeaway broth on a sorc werewolf health to 35k. Thiis build is literally unkillable in a 1v1, easily the most cancerous and least difficult build to play, especially in the sewers.

Waffennacht

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Hulking, alessian, troll king/kena, arteum takeaway broth on a sorc werewolf health to 35k. Thiis build is literally unkillable in a 1v1, easily the most cancerous and least difficult build to play, especially in the sewers.

Health sorcs are a version of unkillable builds. I run one, only with updated Doyle

pauld1_ESO

It's why this game will never be balanced unless they code pvp to balance offense and defense. Balance has nothing to do with classes or builds in MMO PvP, it has to do with offensive/defensive balance. The more damage you can do the more squishy you should be, the tankier you are the less damage you should do. Imagine a world where math could allow a calculation where the more armor rating, resistance, and health you had the lower your offensive stats would be capped at. If only it were possible to actually do such a thing.....

katorga

pauld1_ESO wrote: »

It's why this game will never be balanced unless they code pvp to balance offense and defense. Balance has nothing to do with classes or builds in MMO PvP, it has to do with offensive/defensive balance. The more damage you can do the more squishy you should be, the tankier you are the less damage you should do. Imagine a world where math could allow a calculation where the more armor rating, resistance, and health you had the lower your offensive stats would be capped at. If only it were possible to actually do such a thing.....

Face it the classes are designed to be dps, tank, and self-sufficient healers. The most recently added classes have that, and stamina builds designed in from the ground up. The original four classes had it bolted on over time.

erio

yawwnnnn malacath and permafrost or whatever

Firstmep

Heavy armor, malacath, sustain comes from heavy attacking mostly.
Good use of Los and blocking.
That's pretty much it.
Nord in heavy armor can reach some silly levels of mitigation and thanks to malacath your damage is still going to be good.

Canned_Apples

Yup, malacath + dot build + double dot poisons + defensive set + dot proc set + permafrost. 30k health.
Malacath p2w warden and DK builds are very common this patch. Gotta love the new Zos devs. Buffing proc sets/dot builds to increase sales of a mediocre expansion.

FirmamentOfStars

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Yup, malacath + dot build + double dot poisons + defensive set + dot proc set + permafrost. 30k health.
Malacath p2w warden and DK builds are very common this patch. Gotta love the new Zos devs. Buffing proc sets/dot builds to increase sales of a mediocre expansion.

30k health lol....you mean 40k health to make arctic blast heal for stupid amounts

ScardyFox

I see hyperbole is becoming the forums go-to lately -- there are means to deal with most builds/players.

pauld1_ESO

ScardyFox wrote: »

I see hyperbole is becoming the forums go-to lately -- there are means to deal with most builds/players.

Please share what the counter is to this influx of stamdens who are running around cyrodiil solo....other than to just ignore them and move on. Because that is what I do.

ScardyFox

pauld1_ESO wrote: »

ScardyFox wrote: »

I see hyperbole is becoming the forums go-to lately -- there are means to deal with most builds/players.

Please share what the counter is to this influx of stamdens who are running around cyrodiil solo....other than to just ignore them and move on. Because that is what I do.

There is no way to answer that because the information is so nebulous. What are you wearing? What are they wearing? What CP level are they? What CP level are you? What is their build? What is yours? Is your team coordinating cooldowns and bursting? Is your team build around being a team or around being a duelist? What is their PvP experience Vs another? Etc etc etc

On the odd occasion yes you will come across a troll build, that is very hard to take down. And by that I mean, that is actually hard to take down rather than what people are complaining about. But so what? So people want to shake the box of homogenizing because there are some builds out there "they" haven't figure out yet? I came across a couple of sorcs I couldn't kill yesterday and I do have a strong build. Who cares, kudos for them for their effort - I moved on and killed some other people and swerved back to them with appropriate backup.

I've been playing since beta, the meta goes up and down way too often because people complain about ridiculous things too many times. And the crux of it is that they're usually complaining about things that are easy to get around, adjust to, adapt to, etc etc etc. Like this rubbish about "werewolves are OP blah blah blah".

Dovahmiim

ScardyFox wrote: »

pauld1_ESO wrote: »

ScardyFox wrote: »

I see hyperbole is becoming the forums go-to lately -- there are means to deal with most builds/players.

Please share what the counter is to this influx of stamdens who are running around cyrodiil solo....other than to just ignore them and move on. Because that is what I do.

There is no way to answer that because the information is so nebulous. What are you wearing? What are they wearing? What CP level are they? What CP level are you? What is their build? What is yours? Is your team coordinating cooldowns and bursting? Is your team build around being a team or around being a duelist? What is their PvP experience Vs another? Etc etc etc

On the odd occasion yes you will come across a troll build, that is very hard to take down. And by that I mean, that is actually hard to take down rather than what people are complaining about. But so what? So people want to shake the box of homogenizing because there are some builds out there "they" haven't figure out yet? I came across a couple of sorcs I couldn't kill yesterday and I do have a strong build. Who cares, kudos for them for their effort - I moved on and killed some other people and swerved back to them with appropriate backup.

I've been playing since beta, the meta goes up and down way too often because people complain about ridiculous things too many times. And the crux of it is that they're usually complaining about things that are easy to get around, adjust to, adapt to, etc etc etc. Like this rubbish about "werewolves are OP blah blah blah".

Imagine thinking WWs aren't a literal hard carry in 2020. The build being referred to is the undisputed 1vX FOTM atm, generally it involves Eternal Vigor 5pc + all prismatic + all triune + malacath + literally anything else on the remaining gear slots. With stamina's already ridiculous survival, adding a health scaling burst heal + HOT as a mag dump effectively broke the class. Gave it a crack at the start of the patch, you can kill literally anyone with it, and it's virtually impossible to die. The only way you're going to kill that build (on a good player) is with either a cancer 1v1 build, or the aforementioned hardcarry WW build. Zerglings seem to always think that "there is always a build, maybe you haven't figured it out yet", yes the builds exist, but they generally involve gimping yourself for outnumbered situations.

I think the general issue lies in the fact that currently, stamina can build to be extremely tanky, but also have extremely high damage thanks to dizzy swing + executioner + DB, in addition to in class damage. This is why you see virtually all good players on high health stam builds, stamden is the strongest option for it right now, but other classes are still very strong if built right. I don't necessarily see it as too big a deal though, it's the only thing keeping 1vX alive currently, and the builds actually have counterplay, unlike many Xv1 builds doing the rounds (generally high health stam builds stacking single target proc damage and/or DW heavy attack damage).

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Dovahmiim wrote: »

ScardyFox wrote: »

pauld1_ESO wrote: »

ScardyFox wrote: »

I see hyperbole is becoming the forums go-to lately -- there are means to deal with most builds/players.

Please share what the counter is to this influx of stamdens who are running around cyrodiil solo....other than to just ignore them and move on. Because that is what I do.

There is no way to answer that because the information is so nebulous. What are you wearing? What are they wearing? What CP level are they? What CP level are you? What is their build? What is yours? Is your team coordinating cooldowns and bursting? Is your team build around being a team or around being a duelist? What is their PvP experience Vs another? Etc etc etc

On the odd occasion yes you will come across a troll build, that is very hard to take down. And by that I mean, that is actually hard to take down rather than what people are complaining about. But so what? So people want to shake the box of homogenizing because there are some builds out there "they" haven't figure out yet? I came across a couple of sorcs I couldn't kill yesterday and I do have a strong build. Who cares, kudos for them for their effort - I moved on and killed some other people and swerved back to them with appropriate backup.

I've been playing since beta, the meta goes up and down way too often because people complain about ridiculous things too many times. And the crux of it is that they're usually complaining about things that are easy to get around, adjust to, adapt to, etc etc etc. Like this rubbish about "werewolves are OP blah blah blah".

Imagine thinking WWs aren't a literal hard carry in 2020. The build being referred to is the undisputed 1vX FOTM atm, generally it involves Eternal Vigor 5pc + all prismatic + all triune + malacath + literally anything else on the remaining gear slots. With stamina's already ridiculous survival, adding a health scaling burst heal + HOT as a mag dump effectively broke the class. Gave it a crack at the start of the patch, you can kill literally anyone with it, and it's virtually impossible to die. The only way you're going to kill that build (on a good player) is with either a cancer 1v1 build, or the aforementioned hardcarry WW build. Zerglings seem to always think that "there is always a build, maybe you haven't figured it out yet", yes the builds exist, but they generally involve gimping yourself for outnumbered situations.

I think the general issue lies in the fact that currently, stamina can build to be extremely tanky, but also have extremely high damage thanks to dizzy swing + executioner + DB, in addition to in class damage. This is why you see virtually all good players on high health stam builds, stamden is the strongest option for it right now, but other classes are still very strong if built right. I don't necessarily see it as too big a deal though, it's the only thing keeping 1vX alive currently, and the builds actually have counterplay, unlike many Xv1 builds doing the rounds (generally high health stam builds stacking single target proc damage and/or DW heavy attack damage).

Maybe there are really good werewolfs out there, but never have I run into any. Its not that I don't believe you, but I fail to see how eternal vigor makes them invincible because every were wolf I have come across has been a free kill. Not once have I failed to kill a werewolf with snipe->snipe->silver shards->ultimate. Maybe they are just weak to being ganked and I don't ever get to see their true power level before they die.

katorga

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Yup, malacath + dot build + double dot poisons + defensive set + dot proc set + permafrost. 30k health.
Malacath p2w warden and DK builds are very common this patch. Gotta love the new Zos devs. Buffing proc sets/dot builds to increase sales of a mediocre expansion.

Wyrd Tree.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Dovahmiim wrote: »

ScardyFox wrote: »

pauld1_ESO wrote: »

ScardyFox wrote: »

I see hyperbole is becoming the forums go-to lately -- there are means to deal with most builds/players.

Please share what the counter is to this influx of stamdens who are running around cyrodiil solo....other than to just ignore them and move on. Because that is what I do.

There is no way to answer that because the information is so nebulous. What are you wearing? What are they wearing? What CP level are they? What CP level are you? What is their build? What is yours? Is your team coordinating cooldowns and bursting? Is your team build around being a team or around being a duelist? What is their PvP experience Vs another? Etc etc etc

On the odd occasion yes you will come across a troll build, that is very hard to take down. And by that I mean, that is actually hard to take down rather than what people are complaining about. But so what? So people want to shake the box of homogenizing because there are some builds out there "they" haven't figure out yet? I came across a couple of sorcs I couldn't kill yesterday and I do have a strong build. Who cares, kudos for them for their effort - I moved on and killed some other people and swerved back to them with appropriate backup.

I've been playing since beta, the meta goes up and down way too often because people complain about ridiculous things too many times. And the crux of it is that they're usually complaining about things that are easy to get around, adjust to, adapt to, etc etc etc. Like this rubbish about "werewolves are OP blah blah blah".

Imagine thinking WWs aren't a literal hard carry in 2020. The build being referred to is the undisputed 1vX FOTM atm, generally it involves Eternal Vigor 5pc + all prismatic + all triune + malacath + literally anything else on the remaining gear slots. With stamina's already ridiculous survival, adding a health scaling burst heal + HOT as a mag dump effectively broke the class. Gave it a crack at the start of the patch, you can kill literally anyone with it, and it's virtually impossible to die. The only way you're going to kill that build (on a good player) is with either a cancer 1v1 build, or the aforementioned hardcarry WW build. Zerglings seem to always think that "there is always a build, maybe you haven't figured it out yet", yes the builds exist, but they generally involve gimping yourself for outnumbered situations.

I think the general issue lies in the fact that currently, stamina can build to be extremely tanky, but also have extremely high damage thanks to dizzy swing + executioner + DB, in addition to in class damage. This is why you see virtually all good players on high health stam builds, stamden is the strongest option for it right now, but other classes are still very strong if built right. I don't necessarily see it as too big a deal though, it's the only thing keeping 1vX alive currently, and the builds actually have counterplay, unlike many Xv1 builds doing the rounds (generally high health stam builds stacking single target proc damage and/or DW heavy attack damage).

Maybe there are really good werewolfs out there, but never have I run into any. Its not that I don't believe you, but I fail to see how eternal vigor makes them invincible because every were wolf I have come across has been a free kill. Not once have I failed to kill a werewolf with snipe->snipe->silver shards->ultimate. Maybe they are just weak to being ganked and I don't ever get to see their true power level before they die.

I kinda agree about WW. I just don't see what the big deal is.

Stamden makes perfect sense. 2% damage per animal skill slotted, plus minor berserk, minor vuln and malacath nets them on average 47% damage...all the time, for every type of damage. Easily the best class for a proc meta.

Ariades_swe

katorga wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Yup, malacath + dot build + double dot poisons + defensive set + dot proc set + permafrost. 30k health.
Malacath p2w warden and DK builds are very common this patch. Gotta love the new Zos devs. Buffing proc sets/dot builds to increase sales of a mediocre expansion.

Wyrd Tree.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Dovahmiim wrote: »

ScardyFox wrote: »

pauld1_ESO wrote: »

ScardyFox wrote: »

I see hyperbole is becoming the forums go-to lately -- there are means to deal with most builds/players.

Please share what the counter is to this influx of stamdens who are running around cyrodiil solo....other than to just ignore them and move on. Because that is what I do.

There is no way to answer that because the information is so nebulous. What are you wearing? What are they wearing? What CP level are they? What CP level are you? What is their build? What is yours? Is your team coordinating cooldowns and bursting? Is your team build around being a team or around being a duelist? What is their PvP experience Vs another? Etc etc etc

On the odd occasion yes you will come across a troll build, that is very hard to take down. And by that I mean, that is actually hard to take down rather than what people are complaining about. But so what? So people want to shake the box of homogenizing because there are some builds out there "they" haven't figure out yet? I came across a couple of sorcs I couldn't kill yesterday and I do have a strong build. Who cares, kudos for them for their effort - I moved on and killed some other people and swerved back to them with appropriate backup.

I've been playing since beta, the meta goes up and down way too often because people complain about ridiculous things too many times. And the crux of it is that they're usually complaining about things that are easy to get around, adjust to, adapt to, etc etc etc. Like this rubbish about "werewolves are OP blah blah blah".

Imagine thinking WWs aren't a literal hard carry in 2020. The build being referred to is the undisputed 1vX FOTM atm, generally it involves Eternal Vigor 5pc + all prismatic + all triune + malacath + literally anything else on the remaining gear slots. With stamina's already ridiculous survival, adding a health scaling burst heal + HOT as a mag dump effectively broke the class. Gave it a crack at the start of the patch, you can kill literally anyone with it, and it's virtually impossible to die. The only way you're going to kill that build (on a good player) is with either a cancer 1v1 build, or the aforementioned hardcarry WW build. Zerglings seem to always think that "there is always a build, maybe you haven't figured it out yet", yes the builds exist, but they generally involve gimping yourself for outnumbered situations.

I think the general issue lies in the fact that currently, stamina can build to be extremely tanky, but also have extremely high damage thanks to dizzy swing + executioner + DB, in addition to in class damage. This is why you see virtually all good players on high health stam builds, stamden is the strongest option for it right now, but other classes are still very strong if built right. I don't necessarily see it as too big a deal though, it's the only thing keeping 1vX alive currently, and the builds actually have counterplay, unlike many Xv1 builds doing the rounds (generally high health stam builds stacking single target proc damage and/or DW heavy attack damage).

Maybe there are really good werewolfs out there, but never have I run into any. Its not that I don't believe you, but I fail to see how eternal vigor makes them invincible because every were wolf I have come across has been a free kill. Not once have I failed to kill a werewolf with snipe->snipe->silver shards->ultimate. Maybe they are just weak to being ganked and I don't ever get to see their true power level before they die.

I kinda agree about WW. I just don't see what the big deal is.

Stamden makes perfect sense. 2% damage per animal skill slotted, plus minor berserk, minor vuln and malacath nets them on average 47% damage...all the time, for every type of damage. Easily the best class for a proc meta.

It's great on a magden as well when you're running procs.

Canned_Apples

@katorga
A Magicka set with a15 second cd is not going to help against a +30k health pay2win malacath proc build.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler made sure of that.