Can Cristal frags be a new spamable?

Icaruzs

Hi guys after the cristal frags chances the hard cast of the hability was reduced in 1,2 seconds, right now hard casting the skill only takes 0.8 seconds (from 2 seg), and it can proc itself (10% reduced cost of the next skill was added too)

The frags got a better animation to be weaved too, they reduced the " latency" to use the skill.

Templar uses jabs, and sweeps and that skill have a casting time (the time you take it to strike the opponent) and for templar that's an amazing spamable for pve and pvp.

Can frags be a new spamable to mag sorc? It has a cast time sure, but it deals more damage than other instantaneous skills, like jabs.

Also it's an amazing skill to proc dark magic passives.

Lord-Otto

Yes. But it's a tradeoff. It has less dps and no status effects, but helps your sustain.

Mortiis13

Against the other options:

+Better sustain, more heal power, free bar space, easier rotation
- still casttime/ interruptable/less status effects/less dps(but similar burst potential)




Choice is up to you.

For pvp i use it as spamable, so I can drop chudan and run another monster set or experiment with mythics+1pc monster(balorgh or engine guardion + master inferno feels powerfull ^^) or get an additional skill.

I also use it in pve, it makes the rotation easier as I don't had to be aware of frag procs and can look more at other things = dying less=more dps ^^
I even do more dps on a dummy as I don't miss a frag proc anymore ^^


Overall i would be happier when it had an 0.6 casttime, I often miss a kill in pvp I would get with an instant spammable but that's a downside I can live with.

Icaruzs

Mortiis13 wrote: »

Against the other options:

+Better sustain, more heal power, free bar space, easier rotation
- still casttime/ interruptable/less status effects/less dps(but similar burst potential)




Choice is up to you.

For pvp i use it as spamable, so I can drop chudan and run another monster set or experiment with mythics+1pc monster(balorgh or engine guardion + master inferno feels powerfull ^^) or get an additional skill.

I also use it in pve, it makes the rotation easier as I don't had to be aware of frag procs and can look more at other things = dying less=more dps ^^
I even do more dps on a dummy as I don't miss a frag proc anymore ^^


Overall i would be happier when it had an 0.6 casttime, I often miss a kill in pvp I would get with an instant spammable but that's a downside I can live with.

Do you rly think it would do less dps? because the normals spamable (force shock and elemental weapon) hit around 7k, frags hard cast hits for 9k (not counting the proc extra dmg), which makes for the 0,8 cast time.

If you are using wall of elements, liquid lightining and your pets, the status effect chance shouldn't be a problem (light attack applies elemental status effect too). But yes, without EW and FS the status effect uptime will be a tiny bity less.

I think it will be good for higher pings, since perfect weave with an instant spamable is much easier bellow 100 ping.

And a free skill slot is rly welcome for sorcs in pvp and pve, pets locks a lot of bar space for the sorcerer.

Lord-Otto

Light and heavy attacks don't proc status effects. And the more you can proc, the better.
Hardcast Frags deal 20% more damage, but take twice as long to cast than your normal spammable.
It's certainly a dps loss.

MashmalloMan

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Light and heavy attacks don't proc status effects. And the more you can proc, the better.
Hardcast Frags deal 20% more damage, but take twice as long to cast than your normal spammable.
It's certainly a dps loss.

I would not say it takes twice as long to cast. In practice you're looking at maybe a 1.1s to 1.2s weave average vs an instant spammable of about 1.0s to 1.1s weave average.

The 20% damage makes up for the cast time no doubt. What it doesn't make up for vs other skills is the status effect procs, interruptible, minimum travel time + cast time resulting in wasting attacks on targets that can't take damage (boss phases, dead, easy to dodge, etc).

The DPS loss on a dummy is about 5% from other testers, but there is a sustain increase and for certain builds, this may result in them being able to slot something they couldn't before. It's especially beneficial for double pet sorcs and may even be easier for some people to weave, if they have a problem with rhythm and the GCD, since cast times are much easier to predict.

In actual practice, a veteran player is probably going to lose more than 5% because of the issue with it being a projectile + cast time and how sustain becomes easy to counter in group settings.

It needs it's own damage passive to make up for all the cons the same way Ele Weapon gets a free orb every 5 attacks.

Icaruzs wrote: »

Mortiis13 wrote: »

Against the other options:

+Better sustain, more heal power, free bar space, easier rotation
- still casttime/ interruptable/less status effects/less dps(but similar burst potential)

Choice is up to you.

For pvp i use it as spamable, so I can drop chudan and run another monster set or experiment with mythics+1pc monster(balorgh or engine guardion + master inferno feels powerfull ^^) or get an additional skill.

I also use it in pve, it makes the rotation easier as I don't had to be aware of frag procs and can look more at other things = dying less=more dps ^^
I even do more dps on a dummy as I don't miss a frag proc anymore ^^


Overall i would be happier when it had an 0.6 casttime, I often miss a kill in pvp I would get with an instant spammable but that's a downside I can live with.

Do you rly think it would do less dps? because the normals spamable (force shock and elemental weapon) hit around 7k, frags hard cast hits for 9k (not counting the proc extra dmg), which makes for the 0,8 cast time.

If you are using wall of elements, liquid lightining and your pets, the status effect chance shouldn't be a problem (light attack applies elemental status effect too). But yes, without EW and FS the status effect uptime will be a tiny bity less.

I think it will be good for higher pings, since perfect weave with an instant spamable is much easier bellow 100 ping.

And a free skill slot is rly welcome for sorcs in pvp and pve, pets locks a lot of bar space for the sorcerer.

You may see a larger status effect chance drop than you think, at least for burning and chilled, concussed will still have a pretty good uptime, but it's not really your most damaging status effect. Burning is, because it's a dot. Minor vulnerability can be easily applied for 100% uptime from a Warden or NB.

These values are with the Destruction staff +100% status effect chance:

Enchantments: 40%
Direct: 20% --- Matriarch (auto attack), Unstable Familiar (auto attack)
Direct aoe: 10% --- Unstable Familiar (activation), Unstable Wall of Ele (last hit)
Dot: 6%
Dot aoe: 2% --- Wall of Elements or Blockade , Liquid Lightning

Auto attacks do not proc status effects, despite inheriting the element of the staff held.

universal_wrath

I don't know much about math and other stuff, but I can say this. I have been using crstal fragment as a spammable after patch release. I noticed that the instant proc chance is lower when you use the skill itself. When you use another spammable, you will have better chance of getting the instant proc. Now this is either to me having an incredibly bad luck, or the skilo is not working as intended. I'm also having a better time weaving skills with spammables other than crystal fragment. I'm dealing slightly more dps when using crystal fragment as my spammable because now I can add another damage skill as supposed to other spammable skills.

On a side note. Cryatal fragemnent should be instant cast instead of a cast time. It should keep its damage or lose a bit, but it is magic damage and it is raw damage that does not hace any status effect to it.

FriedEggSandwich

universal_wrath wrote: »

I don't know much about math and other stuff, but I can say this. I have been using crstal fragment as a spammable after patch release. I noticed that the instant proc chance is lower when you use the skill itself. When you use another spammable, you will have better chance of getting the instant proc. Now this is either to me having an incredibly bad luck, or the skilo is not working as intended. I'm also having a better time weaving skills with spammables other than crystal fragment. I'm dealing slightly more dps when using crystal fragment as my spammable because now I can add another damage skill as supposed to other spammable skills.

On a side note. Cryatal fragemnent should be instant cast instead of a cast time. It should keep its damage or lose a bit, but it is magic damage and it is raw damage that does not hace any status effect to it.

I haven't noticed a reduced proc chance from the hard cast. And it can't be 100% instant cast and keep it's damage; my insta frags does 44k crits against the trial dummy. Or have I misunderstood what you mean? I suppose it could be insta cast at base damage with a chance to proc 60% more damage, but that's asking for future nerfs imo.

universal_wrath

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

I don't know much about math and other stuff, but I can say this. I have been using crstal fragment as a spammable after patch release. I noticed that the instant proc chance is lower when you use the skill itself. When you use another spammable, you will have better chance of getting the instant proc. Now this is either to me having an incredibly bad luck, or the skilo is not working as intended. I'm also having a better time weaving skills with spammables other than crystal fragment. I'm dealing slightly more dps when using crystal fragment as my spammable because now I can add another damage skill as supposed to other spammable skills.

On a side note. Cryatal fragemnent should be instant cast instead of a cast time. It should keep its damage or lose a bit, but it is magic damage and it is raw damage that does not hace any status effect to it.

I haven't noticed a reduced proc chance from the hard cast. And it can't be 100% instant cast and keep it's damage; my insta frags does 44k crits against the trial dummy. Or have I misunderstood what you mean? I suppose it could be insta cast at base damage with a chance to proc 60% more damage, but that's asking for future nerfs imo.

Instant at base and whatever chance for the increase damage part. As it stands it feels awful to use even if it provides a better dps.

Joxer61

if I could afford it i would for sure "spam" Cristal!!!

Beardimus

Icaruzs wrote: »

Hi guys after the cristal frags chances the hard cast of the hability was reduced in 1,2 seconds, right now hard casting the skill only takes 0.8 seconds (from 2 seg), and it can proc itself (10% reduced cost of the next skill was added too)

The frags got a better animation to be weaved too, they reduced the " latency" to use the skill.

Templar uses jabs, and sweeps and that skill have a casting time (the time you take it to strike the opponent) and for templar that's an amazing spamable for pve and pvp.

Can frags be a new spamable to mag sorc? It has a cast time sure, but it deals more damage than other instantaneous skills, like jabs.

Also it's an amazing skill to proc dark magic passives.

There's another thread, and it's a DPS loss.
Also, dark conversion going into combat then you have regen too..

FriedEggSandwich

universal_wrath wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

I don't know much about math and other stuff, but I can say this. I have been using crstal fragment as a spammable after patch release. I noticed that the instant proc chance is lower when you use the skill itself. When you use another spammable, you will have better chance of getting the instant proc. Now this is either to me having an incredibly bad luck, or the skilo is not working as intended. I'm also having a better time weaving skills with spammables other than crystal fragment. I'm dealing slightly more dps when using crystal fragment as my spammable because now I can add another damage skill as supposed to other spammable skills.

On a side note. Cryatal fragemnent should be instant cast instead of a cast time. It should keep its damage or lose a bit, but it is magic damage and it is raw damage that does not hace any status effect to it.

I haven't noticed a reduced proc chance from the hard cast. And it can't be 100% instant cast and keep it's damage; my insta frags does 44k crits against the trial dummy. Or have I misunderstood what you mean? I suppose it could be insta cast at base damage with a chance to proc 60% more damage, but that's asking for future nerfs imo.

Instant at base and whatever chance for the increase damage part. As it stands it feels awful to use even if it provides a better dps.

It doesn't feel as bad as I was expecting. It seems to honour light attacks more than other skills when you push the speed of the weaves. For example, I find force pulse easy to miss light attacks with if I start to go too fast. Essentially I agree though. To me the new frags feels more like a quality of life improvement for its old use case, rather than a serious attempt to give sorc a class spammable. By that I mean, accidental hard casts matter less now, and I'm ok with that. Hard casting doesn't make you feel stupid any more. It does feel awkward to use in a rotation though, because I'm so used to block-cancelling when I hear the start of the hard cast. But I never really wanted a class spammable; I don't use one in pvp, and I like using force pulse in pve. I acknowledge that's just my narrow point of view though. I'm just relieved they didn't ruin the skill.

AcadianPaladin

I dropped Flappy for Frags + Dark and use the Frags as spammable. It is certainly an increase from me using LA & HA attacks as spammable. Lol. I miss not being able to heal others but bar space you know?

Mortiis13

Icaruzs wrote: »

Mortiis13 wrote: »

Against the other options:

+Better sustain, more heal power, free bar space, easier rotation
- still casttime/ interruptable/less status effects/less dps(but similar burst potential)




Choice is up to you.

For pvp i use it as spamable, so I can drop chudan and run another monster set or experiment with mythics+1pc monster(balorgh or engine guardion + master inferno feels powerfull ^^) or get an additional skill.

I also use it in pve, it makes the rotation easier as I don't had to be aware of frag procs and can look more at other things = dying less=more dps ^^
I even do more dps on a dummy as I don't miss a frag proc anymore ^^


Overall i would be happier when it had an 0.6 casttime, I often miss a kill in pvp I would get with an instant spammable but that's a downside I can live with.

Do you rly think it would do less dps? because the normals spamable (force shock and elemental weapon) hit around 7k, frags hard cast hits for 9k (not counting the proc extra dmg), which makes for the 0,8 cast time.

If you are using wall of elements, liquid lightining and your pets, the status effect chance shouldn't be a problem (light attack applies elemental status effect too). But yes, without EW and FS the status effect uptime will be a tiny bity less.

I think it will be good for higher pings, since perfect weave with an instant spamable is much easier bellow 100 ping.

And a free skill slot is rly welcome for sorcs in pvp and pve, pets locks a lot of bar space for the sorcerer.

Me, as a mediocore pve group player, with a double pet build and maw, even get more dps with it, cause I don't miss any frag proc, I'm also dying less cause I don't had to watch on those shiny blinky frag button to c when it procs. I also like the feel to weave it and the additional aoe I can slot for trash or inner light for single target boss fights.

For those godlike dummy parse ppl it's a dps loss. But because of the rng of crystal frag proc u need to do thousands of parses to be Realy sure, so much factors had to been looked at.

For average Joe it's viable. It feels good, when u like it, use it and when another magplayer use elemental weapon u will have anyway a good uptime on lightning debuff (15% more dmg)
U get also a good amount of sustain and more self heals, so that I switched to full infused spell dmg jewelry.

Also this is all from a subjective point, others will have different opinions.

How it is in trials I can't tell.

CaptainVenom

Yes, to some extent. I did some testing and got higher DPS using it instead of force pulse/elemental weapon.

Icaruzs

generally i parse 60k to 65k on dummy trial (it's all i can get)

With cristal frags as the main spamable i got 61k before execute

With force pulse as the main spamable i got 63k before execute

But in my build i have no room for the sorc execute with force pulse, when i replaced it with mage's wrath i got a 3k dps increase in the execute phase.

in the execute phase i got 64k with frags+mages wrath

With force pulse+frags i got the same 63k.

The gear that i was using, was Medusa+Perfect False God+Maw of Inferno+vMA flame staff

My skills in my bars were:

Main bar: Cristal frags, Daedrick Curse, Mage's Wrath, Tormentor twlight, Inner Light

Back Bar: Mystic Orb, Crit surge, Liquid Lightining, Tormentor twlight, Wall of Elements (fire)

You can get higher dps repacing crit surge and inner light with spellpower pots (maybe adding the volite familiar)