On your Healers do you use Healing Springs?

radiostar

I'm just curious bc I did a vet run and the healer said they don't have it.
They were over CP300 and only used combat prayer after a request.

Is this a new way of healing now?

mocap

vet dungeon with randoms is when both DD run around like crazy, boss run around like crazy, mechanics forcing you and tank to run around like crazy. Healing springs in that case isn't that good.

the1andonlyskwex

It's usually awful in PuG dungeons because nobody stands in it anyway. Similarly, Combat Prayer usually takes at least 2 casts to hit the DPS, so it's not great either.

For PuG healing, the essential skills (IMO) are basically Radiating Regeneration, your class burst heal, and at least one other AoE heal that depends on your class. I often also run one of the Blood Alter morphs or Orbs, but it's pretty common for them to be covered by someone else. Orbs, in particular, is annoying because so many people in PuGs just ignore synergies.

This applies to both normal and vet dungeons, in my experience.

Also, I hate when people request specific heals. You do your job and I'll do mine. If you need something specific for your build to work, you probably shouldn't be PuGing.

Grandchamp1989

I use Illustrious Healing.
It's great, procs master resto staff for group sustain and/or winter's respite if that's your thing.

Keeping it up keeps good major courage uptime for Olorime and SPC too.

Must have for me.

BalticBlues

Since Healings springs were dumbed down to only one healing circle,
with all movement requirements of the latest DLC dungeons,
they now usually are a waste of a slot in dungeons.

Healing Springs only have a place in trials for me.

Jeremy

radiostar wrote: »

I'm just curious bc I did a vet run and the healer said they don't have it.
They were over CP300 and only used combat prayer after a request.

Is this a new way of healing now?

I don't use it.

The whole concept behind having players coordinate with your spells to get heals was flawed from the beginning. Aside from the fact it simply didn't work in most any pug situations - it was also very frustrating and used to annoy the living ____ out of me.

Luckily the developers have been moving steadily away from that kind of an approach to healing.

If I were you - I would use the re-designed Regeneration spells instead. They are effective and don't require players to stand still or in front of you - neither of which is a realistic expectation.

Astrid

Illustrious springs as it has a longer duration. It can no longer be stacked like it used to. Pack more into spell damage and crit instead of regen so what you are putting down is actually effective whilst you work on buffs/debuffs.

Any healer that needs to be requested to use combat prayer shouldn’t be listened to full stop.

Jeremy

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Also, I hate when people request specific heals. You do your job and I'll do mine. If you need something specific for your build to work, you probably shouldn't be PuGing.

This kind of irritates me as well. Though if they ask nicely I usually let it roll off my shoulders.

But I do agree with you. How a player goes about healing (or any role of that matter) should be up to them. Expecting others to fall in line and use the same abilities and strategies they prefer isn't reasonable, especially in a pug setting.

So long as they are getting the job done, other players should leave them to play how they prefer. That's part of what makes MMORPGs fun to begin with... is coming up with your own individual characters, builds and play styles.

DMuehlhausen

Yeah in PuGs most heals other than Breath are pointless cause people think jumping around and sprinting back and forth ups their damage. Which in fact it lowers cause they are losing at minimum my Combat Prayer and Olorime buff.

I'm terrible with names, but the large ground heal, mutagen morph and breath is all I use in PuGs. Now if they are standing still like good DD and move behind them and make sure Combat is up almost 100% of the time.

radiostar

Well, ok. I guess I got schooled. Thanks guys, at least now I know why I might be needing a heal

zvavi

Dungeon heal or trial heal?

radiostar

Dungeon

zvavi

Off dps, 1 HoT 1 burst heal, 2 destro staves, eledrain, dmg orb, dmg everything else then

josiahva

I assume you mean one of the morphs...not healing springs in particular...but yes, healing springs is still good...especially if you have a master's resto staff. If the DPS choose not to stand in it...that is their failure. Of course some fights require enough movement for springs not to be effective and that is fine, but use it where you can.

vectoraz22

Combat prayer needs to be used frequently for added 8 percent damage buff and is a decent burst heal. Illustrious healing is great to have the ground near where everybody is standing for a healing over time ability but this is not to be used for a solo heal lol. radiating generation is also one to use also use also in rotation as it has the longest distance for added heals. My greatest heal and my spammable is breath of life for quick burst and large heal that is needed as it is needed. If you're only using 1 or 2 of these then you really only hurting your group and affecting your performance.

AlnilamE

It depends on the character and the situation.

idk

Back in the early days of vDSA I did not have any rStaff skills slotted for the first nine arenas. I did not even have an rStaff slotted for those arenas and we were doing solid leaderboard runs. It is not much different than today.

When I heal most 4 man dungeons I use BoL and Regen on a templar and other classes I slot combat prayer. With a pug group I would never use CP as a buff, but only as a heal as I was outdpsed the entire group back when I solo queued as a healer. I am the one who needed the damage buff, not them.

Radiance

mocap wrote: »

vet dungeon with randoms is when both DD run around like crazy, boss run around like crazy, mechanics forcing you and tank to run around like crazy. Healing springs in that case isn't that good.

I use it to rez in those situations when necessary. I drop my heals on myself OR tank if they are Squishy just before I pickup allies so I don't get Picked off before they can rez.

I usually drop springs paired with Olorime just before a fight the group is usually close enough together to get the Buff and periodically during most fights there are moments when you come together.

newtinmpls

Well I play around with quite a few healers, and most classes have some sort of healing. On the "resto" bar, for most of my healers, it's usually
1-Mutagen (heals more than one target AND the flash of light gives you a heads-up as to where they are)
2-Combat Prayer (heals AND boosts combat) - you have to really work to "aim" this, but the sparkles tell you who you nailed.
3-Healing Springs (yeah, that big 'ole circle) - to throw on the tank, and hit anyone nearby

4-often I throw a class skill here, if my healer is a necro - then necrotic potency for self-heals and a boost to Ulti (and if it's a stressful dungeon, Imma want those ultis) if the healer is a NB, then likely Funnel Health goes here - resources and ticks. If I really don't feel like I have a better choice, I will use Siphon Spirit (Resto skill) as it gives 1-lifesteal (more healing), magikasteal (resources) AND as a nice side effect it will "light up" those distant/less obvious targets (like annoying archers) so the team can take them down.

5-Energy Orb (Undaunted skill) pretty much the only way to get resources back for your team if you aren't a Templar. If I don't have that skill, then Siphon Spirit goes here.

Ulti: Life Giver (love this ulti!); this particulare morph, aside from heals, "Also automatically cast Regeneration, Blessing of Protection, and Steadfast Ward at no cost"

Kurat

There's no healer needed in 4 man content.
Healer in dungeons = dps loss

dcam86b14_ESO

It use to be worth it now it's not even on my radar.

SydneyGrey

I have warden healers, and they already have awesome area-of-effect heals that make Healing Springs useless in comparison.
I can understand why classes other than wardens might use it, though.

SydneyGrey

Kurat wrote: »

There's no healer needed in 4 man content.
Healer in dungeons = dps loss

I think you forgot about all the buffs healers will give you, and all the debuffs they put on the monsters.
So no, it is not necessarily a dps loss.

ZaroktheImmortal

I'll just leave this here

https://eso-sets.com/set/grand-rejuvenation

ZaroktheImmortal

Kurat wrote: »

There's no healer needed in 4 man content.
Healer in dungeons = dps loss

Err you do realise healers can buff team and debuff enemies so you do more damage and keep your stamina and magika up and can make the fights go faster? If your dps is that bad that you think the support roles should be doing your job for you well...plus try doing the harder content like that and see how far you get. This just shows a lack of understand on how roles work and what healers actually do they do a lot more than just healing as it turns out.

the1andonlyskwex

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

There's no healer needed in 4 man content.
Healer in dungeons = dps loss

Err you do realise healers can buff team and debuff enemies so you do more damage and keep your stamina and magika up and can make the fights go faster? If your dps is that bad that you think the support roles should be doing your job for you well...plus try doing the harder content like that and see how far you get. This just shows a lack of understand on how roles work and what healers actually do they do a lot more than just healing as it turns out.

If you only look at damage buffs, in a 4-man with a tank you would need to increase the DD DPS by 50% to be more valuable than just having another DD. In most cases, if the group can survive without a healer, you're better off with another DD instead.

That said, lots of groups can't survive without a healer.

ZaroktheImmortal

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

There's no healer needed in 4 man content.
Healer in dungeons = dps loss

Err you do realise healers can buff team and debuff enemies so you do more damage and keep your stamina and magika up and can make the fights go faster? If your dps is that bad that you think the support roles should be doing your job for you well...plus try doing the harder content like that and see how far you get. This just shows a lack of understand on how roles work and what healers actually do they do a lot more than just healing as it turns out.

If you only look at damage buffs, in a 4-man with a tank you would need to increase the DD DPS by 50% to be more valuable than just having another DD. In most cases, if the group can survive without a healer, you're better off with another DD instead.

That said, lots of groups can't survive without a healer.

Between ofsetting enemies olorime combat prayers and various buffs and debuffs healers do also war horn is a good ultimate for boosting both damage and resource pool. If there still isn't enough damage being done then really that's on the DPS. The healer shouldn't be expected to be doing the DPS job. And you can actually clear enemies fast if you actually let the support roles do their job assuming the dps can actually dps. At the point they're expecting others to do their job for them that just says to me they're bad at their role.

the1andonlyskwex

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

There's no healer needed in 4 man content.
Healer in dungeons = dps loss

Err you do realise healers can buff team and debuff enemies so you do more damage and keep your stamina and magika up and can make the fights go faster? If your dps is that bad that you think the support roles should be doing your job for you well...plus try doing the harder content like that and see how far you get. This just shows a lack of understand on how roles work and what healers actually do they do a lot more than just healing as it turns out.

If you only look at damage buffs, in a 4-man with a tank you would need to increase the DD DPS by 50% to be more valuable than just having another DD. In most cases, if the group can survive without a healer, you're better off with another DD instead.

That said, lots of groups can't survive without a healer.

Between ofsetting enemies olorime combat prayers and various buffs and debuffs healers do also war horn is a good ultimate for boosting both damage and resource pool. If there still isn't enough damage being done then really that's on the DPS. The healer shouldn't be expected to be doing the DPS job. And you can actually clear enemies fast if you actually let the support roles do their job assuming the dps can actually dps. At the point they're expecting others to do their job for them that just says to me they're bad at their role.

You're missing my point. Sure, you can kill stuff "fast" with a healer, but all of the buffs you mentioned only add up to about 25% increased DPS. If you replace all that with another DD equal to the average of the two DDs you already have, you'll kill stuff even faster, plus some of the common healer buffs and debuffs can be provided by the tank instead (or one of the DD without sacrificing much DPS).

Where all of the healer buffs start coming out ahead is in trials, where the number of DD benefiting is much larger.

idk

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

There's no healer needed in 4 man content.
Healer in dungeons = dps loss

I think you forgot about all the buffs healers will give you, and all the debuffs they put on the monsters.
So no, it is not necessarily a dps loss.

More importantly, they left out the fact that a great many groups do need a healer. Yes, many of us can clear 4 man vet HM dungeons without the trinity, and I am not talking about the easy non-DLC dungeons. However, we all know or should know, that is not the reality for everyone.

ZaroktheImmortal

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

There's no healer needed in 4 man content.
Healer in dungeons = dps loss

Err you do realise healers can buff team and debuff enemies so you do more damage and keep your stamina and magika up and can make the fights go faster? If your dps is that bad that you think the support roles should be doing your job for you well...plus try doing the harder content like that and see how far you get. This just shows a lack of understand on how roles work and what healers actually do they do a lot more than just healing as it turns out.

If you only look at damage buffs, in a 4-man with a tank you would need to increase the DD DPS by 50% to be more valuable than just having another DD. In most cases, if the group can survive without a healer, you're better off with another DD instead.

That said, lots of groups can't survive without a healer.

Between ofsetting enemies olorime combat prayers and various buffs and debuffs healers do also war horn is a good ultimate for boosting both damage and resource pool. If there still isn't enough damage being done then really that's on the DPS. The healer shouldn't be expected to be doing the DPS job. And you can actually clear enemies fast if you actually let the support roles do their job assuming the dps can actually dps. At the point they're expecting others to do their job for them that just says to me they're bad at their role.

You're missing my point. Sure, you can kill stuff "fast" with a healer, but all of the buffs you mentioned only add up to about 25% increased DPS. If you replace all that with another DD equal to the average of the two DDs you already have, you'll kill stuff even faster, plus some of the common healer buffs and debuffs can be provided by the tank instead (or one of the DD without sacrificing much DPS).

Where all of the healer buffs start coming out ahead is in trials, where the number of DD benefiting is much larger.

By that argument why do you need a tank? Why not 4 dps? If your argument is you don't need support roles cause DPS ROOLS WE DON'T NEED YOU HEALERS. Then surely you don't need a tank.

the1andonlyskwex

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

There's no healer needed in 4 man content.
Healer in dungeons = dps loss

Err you do realise healers can buff team and debuff enemies so you do more damage and keep your stamina and magika up and can make the fights go faster? If your dps is that bad that you think the support roles should be doing your job for you well...plus try doing the harder content like that and see how far you get. This just shows a lack of understand on how roles work and what healers actually do they do a lot more than just healing as it turns out.

If you only look at damage buffs, in a 4-man with a tank you would need to increase the DD DPS by 50% to be more valuable than just having another DD. In most cases, if the group can survive without a healer, you're better off with another DD instead.

That said, lots of groups can't survive without a healer.

Between ofsetting enemies olorime combat prayers and various buffs and debuffs healers do also war horn is a good ultimate for boosting both damage and resource pool. If there still isn't enough damage being done then really that's on the DPS. The healer shouldn't be expected to be doing the DPS job. And you can actually clear enemies fast if you actually let the support roles do their job assuming the dps can actually dps. At the point they're expecting others to do their job for them that just says to me they're bad at their role.

You're missing my point. Sure, you can kill stuff "fast" with a healer, but all of the buffs you mentioned only add up to about 25% increased DPS. If you replace all that with another DD equal to the average of the two DDs you already have, you'll kill stuff even faster, plus some of the common healer buffs and debuffs can be provided by the tank instead (or one of the DD without sacrificing much DPS).

Where all of the healer buffs start coming out ahead is in trials, where the number of DD benefiting is much larger.

By that argument why do you need a tank? Why not 4 dps? If your argument is you don't need support roles cause DPS ROOLS WE DON'T NEED YOU HEALERS. Then surely you don't need a tank.

Tanks are different because somebody needs to corral the enemies into the DDs AoE (and keep them there).

I already mentioned that lots of groups can't survive without a healer. That doesn't change the fact that groups that can survive are better off with another DD.

This is a fundamental flaw in ESO's encounter design. Too much of the damage people take consists of one-shots that can't be healed anyway, and the rest can pretty much be covered by a little tank off-healing and damage abilities that self-heal. It turns healers into mindless buff-bots most of the time (because actual healing isn't necessary), and in content with fewer players it just makes them expendable (because you're better off just bringing more DD).

This is a major point of frustration for me because I actually like healing. Fortunately, most people aren't very good and PuGs almost always need healers in order to complete vet dungeons.