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The proper perspective of complaining

ChaosWotan
ChaosWotan
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To put complaining in this forum in perspective, ask yourself: would you have preferred to 1) be a newbie ESO player in 2014, or 2) be a new player of the game in 2020?

The question should be answered by those who have been active since 2014/2015, and by those who have the computer hardware necessary to actually play the game without 15 FPS and 300 ping.

I started ESO late in 2014, but I envy new gamers today. I wish I was a newbie, now - despite performance issues and other stuff.

[snip] Presupposing that you are actually able to play (parts of) the game... Besides that little problem, which some (many?) people experience, I'm very grateful for the devs who made it possible to play a game like ESO.

[edited for bashing]
Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 31, 2023 6:42PM
  • idk
    idk
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    I fail to see how when we would have preferred to start if relevant to anything, especially complaining.
  • ChaosWotan
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    We often complain about many things today, especially regarding performance issues. But if ESO today had the graphics and same limits of variety as in 2014, when Cyro was as revolutionary as BF1942, imo, then the game would probably have been very smooth. But I assume that vets who loved ESO in 2014 would have preferred to be a newbie in the game today, instead of having started it in 2014. If that is the case, then ESO has actually improved (a lot).
  • Langdon64
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    I wish I had been playing earlier. As a new player, I feel overwhelmed and buried by the sheer amount of content I have to complete. Questing through every zone, crafting, research, riding training, mages guild, psijic guild, etc. I feel I will never catch up to veteran players, but I love the game.
  • Gythral
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    no content vs no stabilty

    It is clearly not an either or...
    “Be as a tower, that, firmly set,
    Shakes not its top for any blast that blows!”
    Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy
  • Sanctum74
    Sanctum74
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    I was a new player in 2014 and I'm glad I was so i got a chance to see how great the game once was. Had i started in 2020 I probably would have quit after a few days because of the performance issues. It’s a shame they let such a great game degrade to the point it’s at.

  • ChaosWotan
    ChaosWotan
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    ESO is not so big as it appears the first months or the first year you play. An rpgmmo is meant to be played for half a decade or more, so cherish the time you have as a newbie. I guess one of the reasons that many vets in mmorpgs are sometimes grumpy old men (aka toxic in vet dungeons) is because they are bored but addicted to a game that was once extremely fun, years ago.

    Don't power level! Don't be in a rush. Just enjoy being overwhelmed. That's a luxury problem I wish I had.

    And now to more complaining:

    Ravenwatch EU is often unplayable this evening.... Ridiculous lag in fights :(
  • ChaosWotan
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    In 2014, ESO was especially great because Cyro was "revolutionary". Today it's easy to forget that. I agree that ESO did in a way go downhill after IC, in a fancy and beautiful manner, since the game is pretty now in 4K. But put it this way:

    If you had encountered the 2020 version of ESO in 2014, would you not have been more impressed than we once were almost 7 years ago?

    And performance will always be an unrepairable problem if it's true that the initial basic code of the game can never handle the improvements we have seen since 2014.

    On the other hand, ESO stopped being an innovative game after IC. It has been mostly gimmicks since then, but I still wish I had started playing ESO last month, not in 2014.
  • Strider__Roshin
    Strider__Roshin
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    If I had zero experience playing this game and just decided to try it out I would've lost interest almost immediately and played something else. Literally the only reason I still keep up with the game is due to how much time I've sank into it. The combat used to feel smoother and faster. The quality of PvP used to be way higher, and PvE used to be challenging.

    The issues I have with this game are all self-inflicted by ZOS. And out of the many games I own this is the only one that has gotten worse over time.
  • ChaosWotan
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    Cyro content today is (basically) the same as Cyro in 2014. The lag now is maybe caused by factors that are perhaps impossible to fix anyway. In 2014/15 we also had a lot of lag in Cyro, but we endured it because the experience of large-scale battle was "revolutionary". Until a disappointing IC split the once great community (we had in Cyro EU). After IC the game has been more about gimmicks. But pretty gimmicks,

    All in all, I would in 2014 have been very impressed by the 2020 version of ESO if we still had the same amazing community as we had back then.
  • Technica
    Technica
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    I guess I'd maybe prefer starting it now?

    If only because the game truly has vastly improved since back then. I remember playing the beta and the first experience I had with it was really unimpressive and I was reluctant to buy the released version, but I did.

    That said though, I'm actually happy I've been around to see it evolve into what it is now. The game has gotten a lot better in my eyes and I've overall enjoyed it more than I did back then. I sometimes remember some of the little things that used to be and think "I'm glad they changed that"
    I remember that alliances were locked off to each other, so if you wanted to play with your friend the Altmer in AD and you chose Nord in EP (you can't choose any race any alliance unless you got the Imperial edition/update) you could never meet each other. Also areas had levels for a while - until Tamriel Unlimited I think (which I think also unlocked the alliance thing I mentioned so you could meet each other?) which changed it to how it is now. If you started in Auridon you'd come across enemies your level and if you decided to port to Reaper's March you'd probably get slaughtered because the enemies were a lot higher levels than you, even the wolves.

    Kind of feel proud of what it's become *wipes tear*

    Even though it has improved as much as it has it's still not perfect, and I'd say a number of things could do with some changes/improvements.
    Example: I only recently put up a suggestion thread for improvements for the events, because they're boring. Especially after participating in them every year for 6 years. All I do now is log in, get my event ticket from the 1 quest, then log off/do something else.
    Example: I've also seen a number of people asking for adornments/hairstyles/etc to be freely unlocked for both genders.
    Example: general performance fixes are also still required
    You will know me by my eye. | Adventuring since beta | PC EU | ESO+ | I recommend this reshade (Example Screenshots)
  • Iluvrien
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    I'd take 2014's ESO back instantly.

    Even with its warts it seemed like it was on the up. Definitely doesn't feel that way now.
  • ChaosWotan
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    "... it seemed like it was on the up"

    In 2015, I looked forward to the IC release like it was Christmas Eve. What a disappointment.

    But the point is that if you had been new to ESO today, you would also have thought that this game is on the way up. Until you read all the complaints in this forum.

    If you are a newbie, it's probably a good idea to just enjoy the game and not read this forum.
  • Moloch1514
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    Glad I've been here since 2013 and experienced challenging overland questing content and true large-scale PvP with hundreds of players and no lag/desync/crashes. When someone called out "Get to the scroll!!" in zone chat, the horde was awesome.
    PC-NA
  • Gythral
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    Could I have current content with 2014 server stability & performance :hushed:
    “Be as a tower, that, firmly set,
    Shakes not its top for any blast that blows!”
    Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy
  • ChaosWotan
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    We had plenty of lag and crashes in Cyro EU, in 2014/15, but the community was awesome. Feel sorry for newbies who didn't experience the original community, prior to IC.

    Asking for current content without Cyro lag appears to be the equivalent of banging your head against a wall of initial bad coding that can't be fixed now. That's why my utopian dream today is that the devs create ESO 1.5: one launcher with the option to either play the old maps or new maps based on better code and a new engine.
    Edited by ChaosWotan on August 31, 2020 11:17PM
  • barney2525
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    Gythral wrote: »
    Could I have current content with 2014 server stability & performance :hushed:


    2014 servers couldn't handle current content

    :#
  • Umbro100
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    ChaosWotan wrote: »
    To put complaining in this forum in perspective, ask yourself: would you have preferred to 1) be a newbie ESO player in 2014, or 2) be a new player of the game in 2020?

    [snip] Presupposing that you are actually able to play (parts of) the game... Besides that little problem, which some (many?) people experience, I'm very grateful for the devs who made it possible to play a game like ESO.

    makes no difference if I am a vet or new player. game keeps crashing on me every few minutes since the "performance fix".
    just closes. a message from above ? must be :)

    [edited to remove quote]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 31, 2023 6:43PM
  • Radiance
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    This doesn't put anything in perspective bc it IS 2020 NOT 2014!!!

    Reminiscing about how good or bad something WAS does not magically justify current problems bc you're not living in the present reality.

    Things Could always be better and when things are bad people Should complain or they will always be bad.
  • Gythral
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    barney2525 wrote: »
    Gythral wrote: »
    Could I have current content with 2014 server stability & performance :hushed:


    2014 servers couldn't handle current content

    :#

    Not sure that the 2020 servers could handle the 2014 content either tbh :wink:
    “Be as a tower, that, firmly set,
    Shakes not its top for any blast that blows!”
    Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy
  • GlorphNoldorin
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    ChaosWotan wrote: »
    To put complaining in this forum in perspective, ask yourself: would you have preferred to 1) be a newbie ESO player in 2014, or 2) be a new player of the game in 2020?

    The question should be answered by those who have been active since 2014/2015, and by those who have the computer hardware necessary to actually play the game without 15 FPS and 300 ping.

    I started ESO late in 2014, but I envy new gamers today. I wish I was a newbie, now - despite performance issues and other stuff.

    [snip] Presupposing that you are actually able to play (parts of) the game... Besides that little problem, which some (many?) people experience, I'm very grateful for the devs who made it possible to play a game like ESO.

    You do know that for people on the other side of the world from the servers, it doesnt matter how good your hardware is........distance will always give you ping of that order?

    I have been playing since early 2015.... I left a few months ago..... frankly the latent ping from Oceania (>300 without vpn) and the poor performance in trials, pvp, dlc dungeons and single arenas just was too much to be fun.

    I complained long and hard in the (misguided) hope that the game would be more playable...as is anyone's right.

    [edited to remove quote]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 31, 2023 6:43PM
  • Knightpanther
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    Our hardware is a red herring, i still have my rig from when the game first went live (my 6 year old uses it for minecraft) it runs the game just as well as my current gaming system which cost a small fortune.

    The problem isn't our end, trust me if it was i would have sorted it by now, money aint an issue and my mate runs a well known independent computer company.

    I have no issues with other games that are far more demanding on PC load and i have the fastest privately available hardwired cable available.

    The truth is they have fallen behind on performance issues, they are too hung up on crown store items and dodgy deer reskins.
    Lets face it the reason that many of us are still here (albeit not ESO+ members anymore) is that the game is still amazing - when we can play it.
    But even then they are trying to drive us further away with harebrained combat schemes.
    If they manage to sort this debacle out this year i will be glad to eat humble pie, sadly at the moment my money and time is going elsewhere.

    Be Safe
  • rpa
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    I tried the game late 2015 and was bored to tears and judging from reviews at launch, 2014 was not better. Current version would be great to start fresh as newbie if it worked properly. Too bad it never will.
  • ChaosWotan
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    I never said stop complaining. I myself have become a bit of a connoisseur when it comes to complaining, tnx to ESO and this forum. Have never complained so much in my whole life :)

    But having the best hardware today doesn't fix all problems when the initial basic code is bad. You can't run a fast DVD if your basic read/write code is only that of a floppy disk.

    Moore's law will make it inevitable that all games that are seven years old will have major problems if the devs were not lucky and farsighted when creating the base code of the game.

    I'm not an expert, very far from it, so correct me if I'm wrong.

    Complain about this: a gaming industry that has (always) been sloppy when releasing games with half-baked code, in the hope that they can patch it later. Now that Moore's law appears to be slowing down, all coders must work harder to clean up the code before releasing new software programs. They can't naively rely on the brute force of faster CPUs and GPUs. The public will not buy that anymore.
    Edited by ChaosWotan on September 1, 2020 9:11AM
  • SmukkeHeks
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    If I found the game in 2020, I’d be on my merry way.

    It’s friendships that makes me come back. The promises of anarchistic memes on twitter while the dad jokes flows in chat, that makes me come back. Some of them I’ve known for 6 years now. And tonight I’ll login again, probably just for an hour because I can’t stand the performance, but I have to see my comrades.

    And it’s that way, because I have the recollection of how absolutely amazingly stunning Tamriel is. How smooth it once ran. But it’s my dear friends that lures me in, every night.

    2020, I’ll get to my first voice bug, notice them, notice the clonkyness that is cyrodiil, take a hard crash or two, and move on. They should consider themselves lucky I have so much invested in the game.
  • Charon_on_Vacation
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    i'd like to be a player in between those dates. the game is going downhill for a few years now and it never unlocked its potential.
  • ChaosWotan
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    ESO actually got many bad reviews in 2014. But we were a community full of enthusiasts (subscribers) who dreamt of an even better future, that never came. Instead we got nice gimmicks and a refurbished game with continued performance issues. Not even enough new content. But that doesn't change the fact that I would have been awestruck in 2014 if I had access to the 2020 version of ESO back then.

    By the way, I wonder how an online discussion forum for F-35 pilots would have looked like.

    Be happy that you are not a F-35 pilot:

    Terrain! Terrain! Reboot! Reboot!

    Now that Aspergers are the new James Bond, coders should listen to Olivia Newton John:

    You better shape up
    'Cause I need a man
    Edited by ChaosWotan on September 1, 2020 10:17AM
  • coletas
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    For me... every patch has been worst for the game. EVERY. All gave more problems, bugs and perfomance issues than the version before. I stopped playing PVE with Morrowind. I still bought most of DLC, and they are there, some without opening most of those booooring [snip]

    So yes, I would teleport to 2014 instantly, where at least I could be playing with my friends and not now, where all friends left the game and every try I give to the game is just to certify that the game works worse than the last try I gave to it.

    [edited for bashing]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 31, 2023 6:44PM
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