Help me with my tank build + a challenge

Dovakhan

I've had a Nord DK build for quite some time and I'm ashamed to admit that I haven't given him the love it deserves equipment-wise. Right now I'm using Lord Warden + Brass Fortress + Plague Doctor (lightning staff) as my sets, but people keep asking me to get better gear and/or get gear "that helps other players in dungeons/trials/etc" (like if I don't feel enough like a damn swiss army knife in dungeons already). But thing is that I DO like to have my current 54,4k HP and my 33k resistances no matter the weapon in hand (and that with unpolished item traits. When polished, I'm sure that I could buff it to 56k HP or so).

So, here's the challenge: suggest me a good, non-Trial gear setup with the following conditions (and I repeat, I'm a Nord DK, full 64 HP points):

- PvE-oriented.
- I must have AT LEAST 50k HP with blue buff food (like Melon-Baked Parmesan Pork).
- I must have full 33k resistances while with sword + shield, and AT LEAST 31k resistances with staff in hand (unbuffed, except passives), thou ideally 33k as well.
- It must have better HP regen AND/OR team assistance bonuses than my current build, else I'd just continue using it :P Magicka/stamina bonuses are a plus, but I already sustain well enough with some well-placed heavy attacks.
- I've all DLC's including Stonethorn, so have that in mind when making a suggestion.
- And no, I don't accept any build with HP/res lower than those.
- I may also look upon CP redistribution suggestions, but it's not guaranteed by far that I'd follow them. Better focus purely on equipment. (So far I'm using the Red skill points of this build: https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-tank-build-pve/ ).

That's all. I'm eagerly looking forwards to your suggestions!

Raisin

It doesn't really seem possible to consolidate your large unnecessary amount of HP with the kind of group utility people are asking for. Unless you can commit to learn how to be a better tank (less relying on HP safety nets, understanding how to efficiently mitigate damage instead of facetanking, investing in more resources to provide buffs/debuffs for the group), it's probably best to stick to what you have.
Unfortunately you cannot have everything, and if you aren't willing to give up what you have, there isn't much to gain in other departments. It's a choice you have to make for yourself.

Dovakhan

Thanks for being so judgemental without even knowing how do I even tank.

Thing is, I do know how do mitigate damage, block and avoid aoe's whenever possible (thou teammates sure hates a tank that minimally moves from the spot, but I do still manage to do even that without compromising my position much, generally). Still, my large HP pool has proven me useful time and again when carrying a group, and even for doing massive resurrections.

Also, there are tanks around with even 60k+ HP. So 50k is even relatively reasonable :P People just thinks that a tank must provide ABSOLUTELY everything for them, no matter that he already tanks bosses, buffs, debuffs, crowd controls and provides energy orbs to the group. No, of course that's not enough :P

Raisin

Dovakhan wrote: »

Thanks for being so judgemental without even knowing how do I even tank.

Thing is, I do know how do mitigate damage, block and avoid aoe's whenever possible (thou teammates sure hates a tank that minimally moves from the spot, but I do still manage to do even that without compromising my position much, generally). Still, my large HP pool has proven me useful time and again when carrying a group, and even for doing massive resurrections.

Also, there are tanks around with even 60k+ HP. So 50k is even relatively reasonable :P

The only thing in this game I can think of that requires 50k HP is Lord Falgravn HM. For dungeons, 35k-40k is usually enough. I'm sure there's some specific vDLC where you wanna build higher, but it's really exceptions. Heck, many things can be tanked in medium armor (considering content here that actually requires a tank, obviously everything that can be 'tanked' by a DD is a bit of a low standard to compare to).
Saying that 50k health is reasonable because someone made a build to see if they can hit health cap isn't a good standard -- being 'not the worst' isn't the standard you want to be content hitting, is it?

It's also fine if it is in the end, as I said, you need to choose between these things. But you can't stick to everything you have while improving in the area others ask you to, you know? You have to be willing to let go of at least something. It honestly sounds like you're content with the build you have, so there's no harm in sticking to what you feel comfortable tanking in. Just gotta accept you won't be hitting other people's standards. Alternatively, just take a leap of faith and try something completely different. See if you really can't tank in a more conventional setup. Builds are reversible and trying doesn't hurt.

Sorry if it sounds judgemental, but it's just experience talking. Many things should be roll dodged rather than blocked. You're not supposed to just stand in block and eat the damage, and in 99% of cases that's what tanks with such high health pools do (abd why they think they require them). And in just as many cases, a tank with those stats is inexperienced and/or lacking in skill. More resources would let you mitigate more dynamically to fit the situation, (de)buffing in-between. If you find that you need such a large health pools and purely 'selfish' (that's what we commonly call a less group-oriented build a tank has to use when they need it, not meant to be rude towards you at all) defensive build, then there is clearly something you are not doing correctly. Even ressing doesn't require it.

Dovakhan

Tanks are supposed to, you know, tank. If dodging was the basis for tanking, then I'd tank with my 12-19k HP, 200% Movement speed, 75 points in Tumbling speedy build. Thing is, I've experienced first-hand playing with dodge-addicted tanks, and I can certify that it's certainly annoying. You could say that standing still is just another way of helping the group, at least IMO.

And that of course leaves you more vulnerable to attacks, thus the need for the extra HP and res.

With that said, with my aforementioned build I've even found regular WB in non-DLC areas that have given me more damage in a single hit than I'd like. So I quite don't think that that boss you mention is "the only thing where you'd need a beefy tank". And yes, even being careful and dodging doesn't make you immune to being hit eventually, even more when your movements are limited because you don't wanna move around the boss much.

Jumping hare tanks are great for PvP. For PvE? Not so much.

Raisin

Dovakhan wrote: »

Tanks are supposed to, you know, tank. If dodging was the basis for tanking, then I'd tank with my 12-19k HP, 200% Movement speed, 75 points in Tumbling speedy build. Thing is, I've experienced first-hand playing with dodge-addicted tanks, and I can certify that it's certainly annoying. You could say that standing still is just another way of helping the group, at least IMO.

And that of course leaves you more vulnerable to attacks, thus the need for the extra HP and res.

With that said, with my aforementioned build I've even found regular WB in non-DLC areas that have given me more damage in a single hit than I'd like. So I quite don't think that that boss you mention is "the only thing where you'd need a beefy tank".

Tanking doesn't function the same in every game. It's always important to understand how any certain role functions in the specific game you're playing rather than going off of what you think it means from past experience. The assumptions people have about tank functions are definitely a common mistake with ESO, as 'holding aggro and not dying' are the absolute bare minimum here and shouldn't require most of your energy/effort. Now whether the current state of the tank role in ESO is well executed or not is up for debate/the judgement of the masses, but that's what it is.
You're also definitely confusing 'standing still' with 'making sure the boss stands still'. It's perfectly doable to dodge everything you need to dodge while still having the boss stay in position. It's mostly a matter of practice and understanding how and when the boss does or doesn't move.

Are there world bosses right now that cannot/have not been solo'd? It's entirely possible of course, but the number should be very small. People don't generally build very tanky for that kind of gameplay AFAIK.

Anyway, I'm not here to argue how you should feel about tanking. Maybe there's some theorycrafter who can offer you a nice build that hits your requirements. Just figured I'd point out that sacrifices must be made in order to satisfy the people that are asking you to change -- and at least consider that what I've said here is very likely the point of view that those people are coming from when they ask. So if that doesn't fit your gameplay style, do you want to prioritise pleasing them?

Dovakhan

Not gonna discuss it any further, mostly because opinions about tanks are like fungus: there are tons of them. Besides, I've already explained what I do as a tank, I'm happy with it, and I'm not willing to do any more just because some PUG wants absolutely everything, including 1k extra HP from the damn Ebon set. Heck, it's not even a Trial build what I'm looking for, but Vet dungeons at most.

But surely AT LEAST a 45k HP build with full resistances does exist, no? It's the only concession I MAY be willing to make. Although by now I think that I should redirect the challenge to "Which equipment would give ME the most benefits while keeping at least 50k HP and full resistances"?

Raisin

45k is probably a lot more reasonable. Good luck.

Dovakhan

Nah, I just decided that I'm gonna stay with what I have, unless I find some set with a nicer 5-piece bonus for myself (I think that Stonethorn has some interesting one/s). Not gonna sacrifice what I have for entitled PUGS TBH.

So, I tank without dying even on Vet, buff, debuff, crowd control and restore hp/mag/stam, and I'm called a "selfish tank" for not having an Ebon set or something similar. And people wonder why DD's takes so long in queues :P

etchedpixels

Dovakhan wrote: »

Tanks are supposed to, you know, tank. If dodging was the basis for tanking, then I'd tank with my 12-19k HP, 200% Movement speed, 75 points in Tumbling speedy build.

If you are fast enough, have enough AoE protection and can keep the bosses taunted and after you without dying then why not ?

As a solo oriented build I run a little lower than I'd like on the health side but with a combination of food buffs and a big damage shield (Hatchlings Shell plus a load of CP in improving my damage shield performance) it works - and yes some things you have to kite a bit even with a good self heal.