How much damage (some) Vet DLC elite adds deal and mitigation factors

Grandchamp1989

So, I took off all my mitigation CP and took off all armor and passives to land on 0 mitigation.
I went for 0 physical resist to see how much damage heavy attack base damage do, so I could calculate if my mitigation against elite adds seemed sufficient with a mitigation calculator:
https://jscalc.io/embed/SSBseoHKGQmww17t

Mitigating 70% dmg is all fine, if you don't know what numbers you mitigate 70% dmg off "somthing" is kinda a shot in dark.

I got my physical resist to 0 but my spell resistance stayed on 3300 which roughly translated to 34% mitigation (according to calculator) if their attacks also applied spell damage.


The results were interesting to say the least, I didn't know heavy attacks at its base did well over 100.000 damage.

I tested elite adds in 3 vet dlc dungeons so far:


vFalkreath Hold - Dreadhorn Minotaur
Heavy Attack: 120.200


vStonethorn - Werewolf Packleader
Heavy Attack: 141.831 (the 3k spell resist may have influenced this - I think it is closer to 150k)
Also apply a nasty bleed if not blocked


vFrostvault - Coldsnap Ogre
Heavy Attack: 146.356



Assuming I'm not wrong here - which I may be.

A 35k health tank with max ironclad and hardy/elemental defender, 20k resistances, 2x sword and board and dragonknight ironskin passive - while blocking - would have an 83% dmg mitigation

Say that person got hit with a 145.000dmg attack he would still lose 24.650 hp leaving him with around 10k health. Without quick heals we would not survive 2 of these in rapid succesion.

If we don't block but instead apply minor maim and minor protection on top of our resistances - that same attack would hit us for around 37.000 damage, which would unfortunately still one-shot us.
If we got our resistances up to 25k we would survive it with 2k health left assuming we were at full health when we got struck.

Again, my math may be wrong here. I based it off of the calculator mitigation and a flat 145k incoming dmg.

If someone who knows more than me on this would/could add to it that would be awesome.

But yeah, atleast I now got a rough estimate on incoming damage numbers.

Grandchamp1989

Decided to spend more gold to get my spell resistance to 0 and my character got hit in the head again in the same of "science".

Spell resistance did not affect the Coldsnap Ogre heavy attack, it still did 46.356 dmg

gatekeeper13

Crushing blow is what made me stopped any attempts to tank vSCP again (not totally useless tank, did vBRF HM easily in my first run). Full resistances, minor maim, weapon decrease enchant, held block, 1-shot. For some reason couldnt see it coming, dont know why. Truth is it was many months ago.

Still, those 1-shot attacks are insane. What's the point of being a tank if you cant block a HA and need to roll-dodge all the time?

Grandchamp1989

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Crushing blow is what made me stopped any attempts to tank vSCP again (not totally useless tank, did vBRF HM easily in my first run). Full resistances, minor maim, weapon decrease enchant, held block, 1-shot. For some reason couldnt see it coming, dont know why. Truth is it was many months ago.

Still, those 1-shot attacks are insane. What's the point of being a tank if you cant block a HA and need to roll-dodge all the time?

It's a good point.

You can have all shield passives, all the protection, maim etc. hold block and the attacks still hurt a ton.
Or you can do none of it, roll dodge a mitigate 100% damage. But of course you may risk DPS being unhappy about roll dodging adds out of their AOE's lol. But it seems to be the safer option for tanks by a long shot.

MashmalloMan

This highlights why the game is so busted with power creep and reliant on CP for balancing purposes. Almost all content is balanced with the idea that you have CP available, if it wasn't, it would be a damn cakewalk like most of the base game dungeons. It's why overland pve is completely trivial.

I'm VERY curious what their plans for CP are, removing it from the game would be unplayable in some content, while making the trivial content challenging again.. My hope is that they give every player about 50% of the current CP systems power into the clases somehow while providing weaker, node like bonusess to augment what we use.

Instead of +20% direct, dot and crit damage, along with 4k pen and 10% for all damage types, something like the DW/2H weapon passives, more specific and unique perks you choose from with a limited supply.

For example:

• 10% chance to cause a 5s bleed.
• 10% chance to fork lightning for 50% of the damage done.
• 10% chance to cause your target to explode for x damage when burning for at least 5s.

Make ESO great again.

Edit: For anyone who didn't hear from the recent stream, ZOS is on track with a CP rework for 2021 and plans on releasing more information about their plans with update 29. They're apparently very excited for whats to come..

ssewallb14_ESO

It seems like they want tanks to roll dodge. In ESO the tank is kinda playing dark souls by himself while your teammates play AOE DDR.

If they want tanking to be more reactive adding a standing "dodge" mechanic might be cool. Like if you bash an enemy doing a heavy attack channel you "shuffle dodge" the attack rather than rolling around the room like a lunatic. At least then you would still feel like a tank.

Sergykid

dodge through the boss, usually it's big enough to not move a step

zvavi

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Instead of +20% direct, dot and crit damage, along with 4k pen and 10% for all damage types, something like the DW/2H weapon passives, more specific and unique perks you choose from with a limited supply.

For example:

• 10% chance to cause a 5s bleed.
• 10% chance to fork lightning for 50% of the damage done.
• 10% chance to cause your target to explode for x damage when burning for at least 5s.

Make ESO great again.

This will not stop CP power creep though...

Grandchamp1989

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Edit: For anyone who didn't hear from the recent stream, ZOS is on track with a CP rework for 2021 and plans on releasing more information about their plans with update 29. They're apparently very excited for whats to come..

Should be interesting, CP is a huge part in being able to tank vet

finehair

I want to know how much damage Kjalnar Tombskald does with his heavy attacks in vet hardmode. Because it is really a bad idea to even block his heavy attacks in vet hm, I usually roll dodge if I can.
Even his light attacks hit about 10-15k if it goes unblocked to my tank with capped resist.

josiahva

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

It seems like they want tanks to roll dodge. In ESO the tank is kinda playing dark souls by himself while your teammates play AOE DDR.

^^ This is exactly what it feel like sometimes, playing Dark Souls while there happens to be people in your chat and on your screen screaming at you when you die.....but its also what makes tanking fun for me, survival against all odds. I haven't played DPS regularly for years...but I am betting I could survive pretty well as a pure glass cannon now if I chose to go back to it.

Pevey

This is why it is so difficult to find a tank for newer vet content. Most tanks want to tank, not roll dodge. It also contributes to healers not feeling relevant in end game. It doesn’t matter how good your healer is, just roll dodge. Better yet, just 4 dps it because of all the above. This is the state of end game dungeons.

If a tank can’t tank, if the healer cAnt heal through it, if everything must be roll-dodged, 4 dps who can roll dodge becomes the optimal team.

snarkomatic

It's almost as if they intended some random bits of content to require a healer. Shame they don't do more of that.

Pevey

snarkomatic wrote: »

It's almost as if they intended some random bits of content to require a healer. Shame they don't do more of that.

It doesn’t encourage a healer if it encourages roll dodge.

Kalantris

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

A 35k health tank with max ironclad and hardy/elemental defender, 20k resistances, 2x sword and board and dragonknight ironskin passive - while blocking - would have an 83% dmg mitigation

Say that person got hit with a 145.000dmg attack he would still lose 24.650 hp leaving him with around 10k health. Without quick heals we would not survive 2 of these in rapid succesion.

My templar has 70.3% mitigation base, 91.1% while blocking, so that hit would cost me slightly less than 13k hp (out of 38k I have), which is still less than just one of my shields I keep up constantly. That means it wouldn't even reach my HP bar. I could get it even higher, but that would mean dropping yolna/alkosh, which is usually the best combo. I could either spend ~2k mana + 500 stam to block it or way more stam to dodge it (and risk getting hit and reposition some of the trash out of the killzone).

Best regards,
Kalantris

lolo_01b16_ESO

To be honest, 83% mitigation is quite low for a tank. That's about as much mitigation as I have on my raid healers.
On a tank you should be able to get higher mitigation, so that those "150k hits" only hit for less than 10k.

novemberhhh

simply hitting resist cap is 50% mit, and blocking on a dk/plar is 80%, and since they multiply (via dmg taken) just blocking at resist cap is 90% mit, before any other sources

josiahva

I haven't done any real testing....but I do notice that when those coldsnap ogres hit even while blocking they do sting...my guess is somewhere between 10-12k if I don't have a shield up...not nearly as bad as say...Vyskosa's heavy attack in HM which will one shot a tank through block with shields up(I guess she enrages) and must be roll dodged...or the insane amount of damage the Stonekeeper does on HM...not a one shot, but crazy damage regardless....enough that the centurians that spawn are truly dangerous. That is comparing apples to oranges though since they are bosses...so far the hardest hitting ad I have seen are the hulking werewolves in vMHK....they will one shot you through block....their AOE will also one shot you....the only attack they do that wont is their howl cleave attack

Grandchamp1989

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

To be honest, 83% mitigation is quite low for a tank. That's about as much mitigation as I have on my raid healers.
On a tank you should be able to get higher mitigation, so that those "150k hits" only hit for less than 10k.

With max resistances, max hardy, max ironclad, sword and board x2 passive, dragonknight ironskin x2 While blocking you'll not touch 90% and will still be hit for over 15k with a 150k attack.

You need to have max in all mitigation resistances and apply minor maim and protection to reach 90% and with a 150k attack that'll still hit you for 15k pr heavy attack.

After 80% mitigation your mitigation increase at an extremely slow/lowered rate despite stacking further mitigation.

To reach 83% base mitigation while blocking ,all the time, on your raid healer you'd need to have max resistances 33k and max ironclad+hardy. While not impossible I doubt he's wearing heavy armor and runs major ward major resolve.

Kalantris

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

With max resistances, max hardy, max ironclad, sword and board x2 passive, dragonknight ironskin x2 While blocking you'll not touch 90% and will still be hit for over 15k with a 150k attack.

So ummm... dunno about DK, my tank's a templar, but on a DK with my CP it should be:
60% block mitigation, 50% armor mitigation, 23% Ironclad, 12% Hardy, 5% set bonus, so ~81% base mitigation. If you have heroic strike on (which you should have anyway), you're at 83%.

On a templar on the other hand:
70% block mitigation, 50% armor, 23% Ironclad, 12% hardy, 5% set bonus, 8% dmg reduction and heroic strike... 92% effective mitigation. Not that much of a problem to get it, it's mostly 8-15s pretty cheap buffs/debuffs and the perfectly balanced perfected masters sword&board give you basically unlimited heals for free on trash pulls.

Best regards,
Kalantris

FrancisCrawford

Kalantris wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

A 35k health tank with max ironclad and hardy/elemental defender, 20k resistances, 2x sword and board and dragonknight ironskin passive - while blocking - would have an 83% dmg mitigation

Say that person got hit with a 145.000dmg attack he would still lose 24.650 hp leaving him with around 10k health. Without quick heals we would not survive 2 of these in rapid succesion.

My templar has 70.3% mitigation base, 91.1% while blocking, so that hit would cost me slightly less than 13k hp (out of 38k I have), which is still less than just one of my shields I keep up constantly. That means it wouldn't even reach my HP bar. I could get it even higher, but that would mean dropping yolna/alkosh, which is usually the best combo. I could either spend ~2k mana + 500 stam to block it or way more stam to dodge it (and risk getting hit and reposition some of the trash out of the killzone).

Best regards,
Kalantris

Block mitigation protects damage shields?

kringled_1

AFAIK, it does not.