Large groups cause lag so just remove large groups from PvP

Rowjoh

Its not a money problem.

It's a 'what the hell is the problem' problem.

pauld1_ESO

Fawn4287 wrote: »

How many other approaches need to be taken and other avenues gone down before finally the devs accept what causes the horrendous lag and stop the formation of large groups in PvP. You can change anything and everything else but the reality is a 3 faction fight of 70 zerglings at the final emp keep is going to cause a ridiculous amount of lag. The fact that most people play in a massive zerg combined with 20%+ of group players are healers and throw down camps and the game is unplayable. Here is an easy guaranteed fix that will instantly stop most lag. Cap max group size in PvP at 4, cap max health at 30k, reduce healing to others by 50%, remove forward camps. If the proposed AOE changes go through the devs are literally destroying AOEs for the entire rather than butchering the effectiveness of the zergs that make up probably 5% of the games total population.

I hear there is this thing called battlegrounds for people like you. Cyrodiil is designed for armies to fight each other, period. It sucks that the servers were not built to support that design, but "zerglings", a term you are using in a derogatory manner, are playing the game as intended. There is nothing stopping you from playing the way you want, but don't degrade others for playing the game as it was designed.

ShadowProc

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

The sad reality is most people don't have a clue how the game works or what known bugs exist in the game. So you have so many tinfoil hat theories that go around.

This is a side by side video of VE and Army of the Pact and the crazy theories that come out of some people. I love how they mass reports of players when they have no clue what is going on but let's blame the players anyway. No wonder Zos has no clue what to do when they try and get player feedback.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA8Ca9lq3eU

See it every day. It can be three bar or pop locked and lag isn’t that bad. The second a group hits the field you can see performance tank. It’s not theories.
Spamming those cross heals and buffs is an enormous amount of calculations.
I agree with lowering group size. At the very least allow only cross healing to members within group as well as limit amount of players in group it hits


AND THE BIGGEST CULPRIT PURGE NEEDS TO GET NUKED

Nyteshade

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

PvP also means...People vs. People.

Actually it means player vs. player...but ya, fun fact.

I think we ought to take this all a but further. If players cause lag in Cyro, then remove the players.

I'm a genius.

dsalter

large groups dont cause lag. ball groups cause lag.

the war/fight sizes in older days before the veteran rank removal huge battles ran alot smoother and ball groups barely existed.
then the AoE caps were added, ranks removed, champion points introduced and blobbing became the more effective and normal play style to come across.
the servers started struggling more and more the longer this went on for to the point the players in the area could crash.

katorga

dsalter wrote: »

then the AoE caps were added, ranks removed, champion points introduced and blobbing became the more effective and normal play style to come across.

AOE caps were removed in 2018....hmm. iirc, it was done to combat ball groups.

My concern is how much of the game is going to get amputated to fix "lag".

AOE - get rid of it!
Healers - Get rid of it!
Grouping - get rid of it!
CP - get rid of it!
Openworld PVP - get rid of it!

finehair

You can actually use latency indicator as a radar in prime time and warn your faction for an incoming ball group to your position. It works.

Vizirith

katorga wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

then the AoE caps were added, ranks removed, champion points introduced and blobbing became the more effective and normal play style to come across.

AOE caps were removed in 2018....hmm. iirc, it was done to combat ball groups.

My concern is how much of the game is going to get amputated to fix "lag".

AOE - get rid of it!
Healers - Get rid of it!
Grouping - get rid of it!
CP - get rid of it!
Openworld PVP - get rid of it!

I'd hardly call reduction in efficiency "getting rid of it". Who exactly do you think caused most of those problems. How many solo/small group players build purely for aoe? How many solo/small scale players build purely for healing?

Fawn4287

Vizirith wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

then the AoE caps were added, ranks removed, champion points introduced and blobbing became the more effective and normal play style to come across.

AOE caps were removed in 2018....hmm. iirc, it was done to combat ball groups.

My concern is how much of the game is going to get amputated to fix "lag".

AOE - get rid of it!
Healers - Get rid of it!
Grouping - get rid of it!
CP - get rid of it!
Openworld PVP - get rid of it!

I'd hardly call reduction in efficiency "getting rid of it". Who exactly do you think caused most of those problems. How many solo/small group players build purely for aoe? How many solo/small scale players build purely for healing?

Exactly the point of this post, small scale is obviously not the cause of any performance issues, however every balance change directed at improving performance ends up gutting small scale and solo players whilst not in any way effecting the intended groups. Once again how many changes are going to be made to the games core mechanics To both PvP and PvE to accomodate a select few people who choose to play PvP in the cheesiest, least difficult way possible?

Abhaya

There are days where I can barely play in a BG from how bad the lag is with teleporting players and insane ping. That’s 12 people. This issue is not specific to Cyrodiil but the large groups there definitely make it worse. Rather than asking to change the mechanics of the game so that it will run better maybe you should point your finger at ZOS that made a game that barely runs to begin with.

Gorreck

idk wrote: »

Since we are speaking about facts, I see no fact that indicates there would be any significant difference between having seventy players ungrouped vs 70 players in large groups. We know for a fact most people go into Cyrodiil for PvP and that with that fact there is the other fact they tend to congregate where there is PvP which is why we have the last fact that many tend to show up at the same location.

Real facts are needed on the subject. Maybe after Zos finishes with the AoE tests they can tests with different group sizes though we already do travel with different group sizes.

When they broke grouping in Cyrodill for a week or so, most of the lag went away, that's a fact.

Greasytengu

Gorreck wrote: »

When they broke grouping in Cyrodill for a week or so, most of the lag went away, that's a fact.

most of the players went away

idk

Gorreck wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Since we are speaking about facts, I see no fact that indicates there would be any significant difference between having seventy players ungrouped vs 70 players in large groups. We know for a fact most people go into Cyrodiil for PvP and that with that fact there is the other fact they tend to congregate where there is PvP which is why we have the last fact that many tend to show up at the same location.

Real facts are needed on the subject. Maybe after Zos finishes with the AoE tests they can tests with different group sizes though we already do travel with different group sizes.

When they broke grouping in Cyrodill for a week or so, most of the lag went away, that's a fact.

@Gorreck

As I said, it would be fine to test (in a controlled manner) and get real facts. What you mentioned was not a controlled test like what Zos is about to do. Again, talking real facts.

Edit: I missed waht Greasy pointed out about that week. Obviously, with fewer players at a keep, there would be less of a chance of lag.

Gorreck

idk wrote: »

Gorreck wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Since we are speaking about facts, I see no fact that indicates there would be any significant difference between having seventy players ungrouped vs 70 players in large groups. We know for a fact most people go into Cyrodiil for PvP and that with that fact there is the other fact they tend to congregate where there is PvP which is why we have the last fact that many tend to show up at the same location.

Real facts are needed on the subject. Maybe after Zos finishes with the AoE tests they can tests with different group sizes though we already do travel with different group sizes.

When they broke grouping in Cyrodill for a week or so, most of the lag went away, that's a fact.

@Gorreck

As I said, it would be fine to test (in a controlled manner) and get real facts. What you mentioned was not a controlled test like what Zos is about to do. Again, talking real facts.

Edit: I missed waht Greasy pointed out about that week. Obviously, with fewer players at a keep, there would be less of a chance of lag.

So they purposely break grouping rather than breaking it by accident and the results will differ? I suspect not.

Dat

I love the people calling ballgroups the easiest playstyle. Maybe you need to actually run in one durring a faction fight to actually get a perspective on that I think. You're welcome to come to one of mine and have your mind changed. I've had others of similar mind try it out lol if you think it's easy then you're being carried

paganslyer

cyrodiil Designed to be a battlefield for factions
cyrodiil need to stay as is ...just ZOS need to improve servers
if they cant handle too much player so just split cyro to different severs

CaffeinatedMayhem

Crash427 wrote: »

You guys know you can lag people pretty bad with a 6 person group if you know which skills/sets to stack right? Cutting group size won't fix Cyro

This, and also... even if ZOS removed the ability to group in Cyro, PvP guilds will still require discord. The 12-36 man raids may not have a crown to follow, but they're all in discord and can still coordinate ults, still wear Earthgore and stand together etc.

The change to only allow healing/buffs of "allies" to be group members is a good start to limiting lag. A *start*. More work is needed.

Zeromaz

They should remove zone chat in pvp areas as well ... just make it to where if you’re within a certain distance it’ll show up. That way when dipspit says they have inc across the entire map, everyone and their mother doesn’t head to the same location. Anyone with a working sense of cyrodiil can figure out where they need to go.

ShadowProc

Dat wrote: »

I love the people calling ballgroups the easiest playstyle. Maybe you need to actually run in one durring a faction fight to actually get a perspective on that I think. You're welcome to come to one of mine and have your mind changed. I've had others of similar mind try it out lol if you think it's easy then you're being carried

I did. First 5 years. It is extremely easy. This argument comes up time and time again. To have other players spamming healing and purge and buffs while you are going all out damage and proxing at same time is WAY easier than fighting solo or small scale performing all three roles.

Daviiid_ESO

ShadowProc wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

The sad reality is most people don't have a clue how the game works or what known bugs exist in the game. So you have so many tinfoil hat theories that go around.

This is a side by side video of VE and Army of the Pact and the crazy theories that come out of some people. I love how they mass reports of players when they have no clue what is going on but let's blame the players anyway. No wonder Zos has no clue what to do when they try and get player feedback.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA8Ca9lq3eU

See it every day. It can be three bar or pop locked and lag isn’t that bad. The second a group hits the field you can see performance tank. It’s not theories.
Spamming those cross heals and buffs is an enormous amount of calculations.
I agree with lowering group size. At the very least allow only cross healing to members within group as well as limit amount of players in group it hits


AND THE BIGGEST CULPRIT PURGE NEEDS TO GET NUKED

looks like the undo bug.