9k group damage in Vet Dungeon?

Jeremy

AlnilamE wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Now BC2 has two dps checks, one is keeper Indril who spawns lot of adds, second is the last boss and the daedroths.
You can wipe multiple times on each in normal if group is bad enough. Yes its require some serious lack of skill.

Imiril can be taken down slowly as long as you focus on the adds.

For the last boss, you can keep killing the Daedroth until the boss is low, then wait for the third one to pop before killing the boss for the hard mode achievement.

Neither of those is a DPS check.

Yeah, that's the usual strategy I believe. But I've been in a quite a few pug groups though who didn't have the damage to kill the Daedroth fast enough to keep them from piling up. So it does seem to take a certain amount of DPS to be able to pull that strategy off.

idk

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

These are the downsides of using the queue, @Grandchamp1989.

If you need a specific outcome for your pledge, find a pre-made group instead ... even if the outcome you’re expecting is just a clear.

Pretty much this.

When using the GF to form your group you can expect very inexperienced players. This happens more today than a couple of years ago and my guess is decent players have found decent guilds to run with leaving much to be desired with the bulk of what enters the GF.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

Experienced players need to give out more advice and be more patient while newer players need to listen more and do research. There are thick headed people on both sides of this.

idk

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Experienced players need to give out more advice and be more patient while newer players need to listen more and do research. There are thick headed people on both sides of this.

The advice experienced players provide is to join a decent guild and start running dungeons with them. as

UrQuan

AlnilamE wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Now BC2 has two dps checks, one is keeper Indril who spawns lot of adds, second is the last boss and the daedroths.
You can wipe multiple times on each in normal if group is bad enough. Yes its require some serious lack of skill.

Imiril can be taken down slowly as long as you focus on the adds.

For the last boss, you can keep killing the Daedroth until the boss is low, then wait for the third one to pop before killing the boss for the hard mode achievement.

Neither of those is a DPS check.

If anything, the DPS check in that dungeon used to be the Maw of the Infernal, as he could fill the room with fire if you didn't take him down quickly enough.

I've tanked for groups that couldn't get past Imiril because, even though they were focusing entirely on the adds, they just couldn't burn down one set of adds before the next set appeared. It is a DPS check, it's just that the bar for that DPS check is set very low compared to the DPS most people are able to pull these days. If you're in a group where the tank (as a dedicated tank, not as a fake tank or hybrid tank-DPS) is doing 25%-40% of the group DPS (which unfortunately does sometimes happen) then you're going to have a bad time here. Of course, on non-vet it's a non-issue, and with probably at least 95% of groups on vet it's also a non-issue.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I keep a 5 piece set of purple divines Julianos in my bank for this exact reason. I am very quick to say, let me buy you a new outfit, and how about you try this very simple rotation, which consists of 2 ground dots and a spam skill. Haha

josiahva

UrQuan wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Now BC2 has two dps checks, one is keeper Indril who spawns lot of adds, second is the last boss and the daedroths.
You can wipe multiple times on each in normal if group is bad enough. Yes its require some serious lack of skill.

Imiril can be taken down slowly as long as you focus on the adds.

For the last boss, you can keep killing the Daedroth until the boss is low, then wait for the third one to pop before killing the boss for the hard mode achievement.

Neither of those is a DPS check.

If anything, the DPS check in that dungeon used to be the Maw of the Infernal, as he could fill the room with fire if you didn't take him down quickly enough.

I've tanked for groups that couldn't get past Imiril because, even though they were focusing entirely on the adds, they just couldn't burn down one set of adds before the next set appeared. It is a DPS check, it's just that the bar for that DPS check is set very low compared to the DPS most people are able to pull these days. If you're in a group where the tank (as a dedicated tank, not as a fake tank or hybrid tank-DPS) is doing 25%-40% of the group DPS (which unfortunately does sometimes happen) then you're going to have a bad time here. Of course, on non-vet it's a non-issue, and with probably at least 95% of groups on vet it's also a non-issue.

I don't know. I have tanked that dungeon HM for years and back when I first tanked it at VR7 I had some trouble, but not much....nowadays though, I facepalm every time that dungeon pops on the queue. I think they have buffed it sometime in the last couple years...because average DPS has skyrocketed since Veteran Ranks, I truly have less trouble with any pug group for vet DLC dungeons than I do that one these days. Its just how it is now...99% of the dungeons are easier these days...that one got harder.

As for BC1....his random attack is badly telegraphed...you just need to make clear to pugs they need to be blocking after he drops the fire AOEs and after he does a heavy attack against the tank...if they don't block then, they are often one shot. As a tank I have taken to timing barrier right before I know its coming.

xF1REFL1x

Lol... I got with a group of very low levels in Banished Cells 1 and they wanted to loot every single item... I asked them if they could loot afterwards and let me and the other guy get through this a bit quicker and they ignored me. I went on to finish the dungeon without them... I did ask nicely. Needless to say they weren't very happy when they saw the dungeon was finished and they weren't even half way through.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

idk wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Experienced players need to give out more advice and be more patient while newer players need to listen more and do research. There are thick headed people on both sides of this.

The advice experienced players provide is to join a decent guild and start running dungeons with them. as

Or you know, if you notice something specific they can improve on you can it with them? Even asking them if they have questions about anything can go a long way. I'm not telling anyone to sit and teach new players everything, but being active even outside your guilds helps the community as a wholem

zvavi

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Or you know, if you notice something specific they can improve on you can it with them? Even asking them if they have questions about anything can go a long way. I'm not telling anyone to sit and teach new players everything, but being active even outside your guilds helps the community as a wholem

As a person that pugs vDLC a lot, I disagree. While some are willing to listen, and some are willing to try. But after numerous negative experiences I stopped asking people if they need mechanics. Generally trying to chat about things like that with a group that needs in has four options.
You either helped someone.
They plainly ignore you (or language barrier, even though it is usually the first).
They are saying ok, and then continue ignoring what was explained.
Or my "favourite", it starts being toxic.

So ye, as you see, most options lead to me being frustrated. After many horrible experiences I found that not being nice, but actually throwing a word or two in chat and that's it (something like, "drop destro ults after I stack them" which btw, gets ignored most of the time, this example comes from vDoM king boss).

Examples of things I heard when trying to communicate:
"Stop being toxic"
"What are you gonna do if I don't know mechanics? Kick me?" (This one was after he lied saying he does know them after I asked if everyone knows mechanics)
"Well yes I know mechanics, I just don't follow them" (this is after I repeatedly asked if they need refresh on mechanics before engage, and them dying repeatedly during).

And more.

So ye. You say we vets should try to help more. Well I am. And tbh with you? It is not a fun experience.

OmniDo

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

They should allow you to parse on a dummy before queuing up and then using that as a sort of baseline for what dungeon you should run.Then you can set a requirement as the group leader. Wont help with fake tanks or healers but at least you'll melt stuff down.

WoW had a system called "The Proving Grounds" which was very effective as a mediocrity filter.
Players simply couldn't queue for heroic dungeons (the equivalent of vanilla veteran dungeons in ESO) without first "proving" that they could competently and reliably perform even the simplest requirements for their roles.
Players would choose a desired role, DPS, Healer, or Tank, and complete a set of timed challenges tailored specifically to their role. Healers had to keep a group of 4 other NPC "players", each performing a loosely-AI controlled script for optimal roles, alive. Tanks had to do the opposite, taunting mobs and trying to keep the NPC's out of danger. DPS merely had to kill various mobs within a time limit.

Example of my druid healer below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZyF7kDKZnk

They had 4 tiers of achievement; Bronze, Silver, Gold, and "Endless", the latter of which basically qualified the player among the top 1% of performers.

It was a spectacular disaster for the under-performers.
Players whined and complained about the requirements which were ridiculously easy, citing "elitism" and other various excuses as reasons for their own incompetence, ineptitude, or both.
Even though only a "Silver" rank was required to queue for "difficult" content, many couldn't even achieve that, blaming latency, poor coordination, and a host of other excuses, ad infinitum.

The bottom line is that there will always be those who are either unwilling or unable to achieve an established milestone, for a myriad of reasons. Either the community accepts this fact and attempts to work around it, (much to their chagrin), or they can continue to complain which will avail nothing useful.

Adapt and overcome or get left behind.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

Jeremy wrote: »

...
Does Banished Cell 1 have any dps checks?

The end boss heals, and will never go down if the group has very low damage and fails to kill the orbs, either because they ignore them, or because they simply cannot kill them fast enough. Believe me, some groups struggle with this. While tanking random vet dungeons, I have seen things that you would not believe. Most random groups are just fine, some are even great, but it's the worst runs you tend to remember. And, in a way, I guess that makes them fun, too.

josiahva

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

...
Does Banished Cell 1 have any dps checks?

The end boss heals, and will never go down if the group has very low damage and fails to kill the orbs, either because they ignore them, or because they simply cannot kill them fast enough. Believe me, some groups struggle with this. While tanking random vet dungeons, I have seen things that you would not believe. Most random groups are just fine, some are even great, but it's the worst runs you tend to remember. And, in a way, I guess that makes them fun, too.

Actually....even with extremely low damage you can still complete this....it just requires the tank moving the boss before the orbs get to him to increase the time the DPS has to kill the orbs. I remember one time tanking it, everyone was down but me, so I would move the boss until the orbs got to his old position, then started toward his new one, then move him again as I rezzed someone....ad nauseum. I was able to rez everyone and the boss never got healed, eventually the DPS took down the orbs and killed the boss. It wasn't a fun run, but I did learn another way to make it work....which is why I pug so much...different situations with different groups will force you to learn things you wouldn't have even thought of otherwise, as an example...did you know that in Spindleclutch 1 that you can climb up on rocks by the entrance of the final boss arena and range the boss down and she can't reach you? I found that out during my first attempt to solo that dungeon.