Anybody know whats up with prices and TTC?

f047ys3v3n

So, I am now commonly selling motifs for 30k+ that TTC has listed with a median price of ~5k and says 50 are up for sale. This was not a thing in the past. In the past if I went over the top recommended price things didn't typically sell. Now they are selling for prices in no way related to the TTC price.

Furthermore, many of these are not super hard to get DCL group dungeon or vet trial stuff. Some of these are just dailies drops from older content.

Anybody have any idea whats going on?
Is there some gold dupe bug and people are using it to swiffer up everything of value?
Is there some cartel trying to corner the market on motifs?
Should I just shut up and sell my stuff for super lucrative prices?

I'm starting to feel like a U.S. Drug company here. Just pulling numbers out my rear and getting paid.

redspecter23

I've been noticing a similar trend lately. Aetherial Dust is the one I've been keeping my eye on. I've seen some very suspicious buying going on. It could just be inflation catching up on many items. It could be something else. If it is some sort of dupe bug, it's early enough for ZOS to do something about it. If that is the case, history shows us that exploiters tend to have loose lips and we'll see things get crazy soon.

MKintr

Most important is your data basis for TTC. If you are only a member of trading guilds in remote locations, where only low prices are yielded, the average price from them is lower than in top trading spots.

Aside from that, I have a lot of motifes for sale at the average price in good locations and sales are low and prices falling steadily, except for some older ones (PC/EU-server). It's the summer hole, quiet time.

Danikat

I'm not sure what's going on with motif prices recently (on PC EU anyway, no idea about other servers). For a few weeks I was wanting to do another round of buying up motif pages for master writs and to complete some motifs (still chipping away at the Master Crafter achievement) but I kept putting it off because whenever I looked for one I needed on TTC I'd only get 1-2 page of results (normally there's at least 10) and it only seemed to be the higher priced ones which were still there, well above the average prices given by both TTC and ATT, so I'd give up.

Eventually I did buy the ones for the master writs so I could get them out of my bank and I found I was consistently having to pay more than TTC's average estimates. I'm still not sure if it's a problem with the addon not sending all the data when a store is scanned or there's actually fewer people selling motifs for more gold each time, but something is definitely affecting the prices.

MKintr wrote: »

Most important is your data basis for TTC. If you are only a member of trading guilds in remote locations, where only low prices are yielded, the average price from them is lower than in top trading spots.

Aside from that, I have a lot of motifes for sale at the average price in good locations and sales are low and prices falling steadily, except for some older ones (PC/EU-server). It's the summer hole, quiet time.

TTC doesn't just use your guilds the way other trading addons do. It builds a database of all the items players have scanned in any guild stores and uses that to produce average prices, as well as to produce the list of available items on the website which is it's main appeal.

If anything it's usually an over-estimate because it includes items listed for insanely high prices which will never actually sell, whereas addons like MM only count ones that have sold.

MKintr

The best estimate give real guild sales by MM and ATT, as long as their data is good. TTC includes a lot of outlier prices and items that never get sold for the listed price.

Are you talking about the NA server? That would be most important first.

ForzaRammer

Cartel on motif and style page is possible, especially event only ones.

I highly doubt is gold dupe bug, they’d snipe alloy rosin wax first.

I have no idea about aetherial dust

BisDasBlutGefriert

🙈🙉🙊

Jayman1000

redspecter23 wrote: »

I've been noticing a similar trend lately. Aetherial Dust is the one I've been keeping my eye on. I've seen some very suspicious buying going on. It could just be inflation catching up on many items. It could be something else. If it is some sort of dupe bug, it's early enough for ZOS to do something about it. If that is the case, history shows us that exploiters tend to have loose lips and we'll see things get crazy soon.

On PC NA I bought up all the Aetherial Dust when they were down near 100-115k up until just a few weeks ago. Now they go fast for 180k. I dont think there's anything suspicious, I just think more people need to make more items with it now than before.

TheRealPotoroo

I'm seeing a lot of outlier gambit prices on TTC too. Maybe it's just the influx of newbies but I'm seeing a lot of

TTC Price: Avg 500/Min 250/Max 8000

type pricing. I really don't remember so many items with outrageous high extremes that are not remotely close to being reasonable.

DMuehlhausen

MKintr wrote: »

Most important is your data basis for TTC. If you are only a member of trading guilds in remote locations, where only low prices are yielded, the average price from them is lower than in top trading spots.

Aside from that, I have a lot of motifes for sale at the average price in good locations and sales are low and prices falling steadily, except for some older ones (PC/EU-server). It's the summer hole, quiet time.

Didn't think that would cause an issue as it sends it out and pulls the data from a web site essentially uploaded from across the game world. So it shouldn't really matter where you trader is located. Those back water traders shouldn't be selling enough to highly impact the median prices

Donny_Vito

Motifs aren't really a re-usable resource though, like temps or other materials. Unless there is a steady income on new players looking for this style, then it's just existing players trying to finish off styles and eventually they don't need any more. Obviously this doesn't explain that drastic drop down to about 5k, but in general motifs tend to always decrease over time.

Danikat

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Motifs aren't really a re-usable resource though, like temps or other materials. Unless there is a steady income on new players looking for this style, then it's just existing players trying to finish off styles and eventually they don't need any more. Obviously this doesn't explain that drastic drop down to about 5k, but in general motifs tend to always decrease over time.

That's the opposite of what the OP is finding though. They're saying motifs which are listed as being available for 5k (or having been available for 5k very recently) and now selling for 30k.

You're not wrong, but your point means the trend the OP is noticing is even stranger because it's unlikely there's been a sudden increase in demand for motifs to justify the more expensive listings actually selling.

ganzaeso

Free to play for 2 weeks + Bots

WastedJoker

I have almost 3 guild traders full of motif sales and nobody is buying even at sensible prices....cartel me daddy

f047ys3v3n

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

I'm seeing a lot of outlier gambit prices on TTC too. Maybe it's just the influx of newbies but I'm seeing a lot of

TTC Price: Avg 500/Min 250/Max 8000

type pricing. I really don't remember so many items with outrageous high extremes that are not remotely close to being reasonable.

The server I am on is PC-NA.

Lately when look up a purple motif available from dailies in non-hardcore content I might see something like:
Avg 5,000/Min 3,000/Max 15,000
40 for sale

Seeing this i might list for 20,000 or even 25,000 and quite frankly my stuff is selling fast at those prices. I am starting to use the max listed price as a minimum and going well above it if it is something like a chest or a motif that actually comes from hard content whereas perhaps going with that max if it is an undesirable piece like a mace.

I have been on ESO since beta and have used TTC since it launched and I have never encountered anything like this. Used to be sales were rare if you were above the average listed price. Now the numbers seem almost meaningless. I am having a very hard time pricing as the data seems meaningless. Even pulling TTC out of the equation, the gold prices these things are selling for are not rational. Things obtained from common dailies in old content should not be selling north of $20k. Something strange is afoot.

madarame_77

People are buying low and selling high, which creates such ridiculous prices. I've been buying motifs lately. It's typical to see ttc prices 30k 5-10 hours ago and 100k 30 min ago. And usually those are Belkarth or Mournhold traders.

TheRealPotoroo

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

I'm seeing a lot of outlier gambit prices on TTC too. Maybe it's just the influx of newbies but I'm seeing a lot of

TTC Price: Avg 500/Min 250/Max 8000

type pricing. I really don't remember so many items with outrageous high extremes that are not remotely close to being reasonable.

The server I am on is PC-NA.

Lately when look up a purple motif available from dailies in non-hardcore content I might see something like:
Avg 5,000/Min 3,000/Max 15,000
40 for sale

Seeing this i might list for 20,000 or even 25,000 and quite frankly my stuff is selling fast at those prices. I am starting to use the max listed price as a minimum and going well above it if it is something like a chest or a motif that actually comes from hard content whereas perhaps going with that max if it is an undesirable piece like a mace.

I have been on ESO since beta and have used TTC since it launched and I have never encountered anything like this. Used to be sales were rare if you were above the average listed price. Now the numbers seem almost meaningless. I am having a very hard time pricing as the data seems meaningless. Even pulling TTC out of the equation, the gold prices these things are selling for are not rational. Things obtained from common dailies in old content should not be selling north of $20k. Something strange is afoot.

I wonder sometimes if part of the issue is that because ESO now has so many DLCs and so many sets and motifs that prices are going up on some because not enough players are doing the necessary dungeons anymore. I was looking at some Militant Ordinator the other day and frankly I just decided to sell the master writ.

vgabor

I guess it's because of event boxes. People get motifs from there, and most just dump those onto the guild trader for cheap without knowing the prices, while the buyers know/remember the (old) prices and buy based on that.

mairwen85

Lots of mother's sorrow rings and necklaces listed for 25-30K. It's odd, and smells of price fixing.

Aisleyne

I think this is at least partly the residual impact of the Anniversary Event. So many motifs flooded the market and pushed prices down. Now the massive influx has been mostly removed, but the TTC prices still haven't recovered.

As far as buying low and selling high, a lot of people don't bother researching prices and just base them from the TTC summary. So there very well could be people who realize the availability has gone down and buy them to sell higher. Because of this it will probably take a while for prices to normalize again.

Donny_Vito

Danikat wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Motifs aren't really a re-usable resource though, like temps or other materials. Unless there is a steady income on new players looking for this style, then it's just existing players trying to finish off styles and eventually they don't need any more. Obviously this doesn't explain that drastic drop down to about 5k, but in general motifs tend to always decrease over time.

That's the opposite of what the OP is finding though. They're saying motifs which are listed as being available for 5k (or having been available for 5k very recently) and now selling for 30k.

You're not wrong, but your point means the trend the OP is noticing is even stranger because it's unlikely there's been a sudden increase in demand for motifs to justify the more expensive listings actually selling.

Oh, thank you for clarifying. I thought it was the other way around, and yes that is strange then. Definitely sounds like some people are manipulating the prices then!

Jaraal

Yeah I’ve noticed certain materials that were commonplace are now virtually nonexistent. But certain traders will have a single player selling 20-30 stacks of five of said material for 500-1000% over MM (actual sales) prices. Clearly an attempt to manipulate TTC prices.

trackdemon5512

It would be nice if TTC had a weighted avg for capital traders and key cities. It’s pretty clear after so many years which are most trafficked and goods are off to move at such prices.

f047ys3v3n

Last two days motif sales:

Motif: 69: dead-water shoulders
TTC avg: 3.7k TTC min: 2.2k TTC max: 55k
53 Listings
sold mine 20k

Motif: 17: xivkyn shoulders
TTC avg: 4.4k TTC min: 2k TTC max: 25k
35 Listings
sold mine 25k

Motif: 18: akaviri sheilds
TTC avg: 17.4k TTC min: 9k TTC max: 50k
45 Listings
sold mine 50k

Motif: 26: DC Helmets
TTC avg: 3.5k TTC min: 2.5k TTC max: 40k
48 Listings
sold mine 25k

Motif: 58: fang lair boots
TTC avg: 4.3k TTC min: 3k TTC max: 34k
47 Listings
sold mine 30k

Motif: 44: silken ring helmets
TTC avg: 1.9k TTC min: 1.7k TTC max: 25k
48 Listings
sold mine 25k

So, these sales averaged more than 5x TTC's claimed average listed price. In half the cases I was also the highest price listed and in some of those cases I had significantly over listed the previous highest price.

As for whether it is because of prices being temporarily pushed down by the anniversary drops, I don't think so. I am always actively selling motifs because I do not typically get all mine sold from one anniversary event by the next one (3 accounts means hundreds of anniversary drops) and prices on motifs this winter were if anything lower than the current TTC averages and sales were pretty slow at that. Of course, with things this way I won't make next anniversary event with any unsold motifs. They will all be sold by end of next month.

VoxAdActa

TTC can't predict trends; it only shows the current snapshot.

For example, War Maiden stuff is FLYING off the shelves at 3-5x the TTC price in anticipation of the next patch changes. I wonder if there's something going on in Motif Futures that's having a similar effect. Are the drop rates changing? Are they putting in new motifs for the next holiday rather than continuing to recycle the old ones? My first thought it's manipulation of the market so much as it is speculation on some new changes that are coming up.

volkeswagon

I am on ps4 and would use the price bots and apps for prices and have noticed them being way to cheap over the last little while. I used to sell for 25% above the bot price for motifs and blueprints but lately I'm selling for twice the average. The price checkers are worthless now.

lemonizzle

I've also noticed this on PC EU, att/ttc priced motifs sold suspiciously fast, while overpriced ones sold just a little slower. I listed a dromathra and a minotaur chest for 200k each, they were bought next day.
I suppose it's the effect of old content not being played that much, plus new players from free weeks and Greymoor. A lot less people run maw of lorkhaj now, so dromathra went up the 30k+ region.

Jaraal

VoxAdActa wrote: »

TTC can't predict trends; it only shows the current snapshot.

For example, War Maiden stuff is FLYING off the shelves at 3-5x the TTC price in anticipation of the next patch changes. I wonder if there's something going on in Motif Futures that's having a similar effect. Are the drop rates changing? Are they putting in new motifs for the next holiday rather than continuing to recycle the old ones? My first thought it's manipulation of the market so much as it is speculation on some new changes that are coming up.

Indeed there is some speculation going on regarding the proc set changes coming with Update 27. And they are retiring the Hollowjack motif with the next plunder skull event.... although it will still be available as a potential reward in grab bags that cost tickets.

winterscrolls229prerb18_ESO

Im still very new to motifs, the dismay of guild only auction houses and very recently just found tamriel trade center.

The problem is from a buyers perspective you have no idea this even exists, and potentially alot of gold.

The whole concept of tamriel trade center only works for subset of players, most likely advanced ones. For a newer player, you get bored, go have a look only by complete random chance, see something and decide if you want it for the price.

I bet a really significant portion of trades is driven by "shrug okay", nothing to do with tamriel trade center.

For me it was absolutely dumb coincidence. First i finally worked out how to use the outfit system, and then by just happy luck found a guild trader who had motifs (not all of them do), and was super happy to patch up the non interesting ones for a few hundred to 1k for the purples. Had i by chance stopped off at the guild trader on the other side of the market, i would never ever have bothered to look again until who knows.. it was that close.

That didn't lead me to ttc either. What it was was hitting cp160. I glimpsed past that the beginner jewel set was from pvp, sighed, but then also read you could buy them. Then i went have a look. Then i saw the dramatic variability in prices of same thing between 3 stores in one area.. to the extent that whole thing is just completely disorganised.

It was only then i found ttc via some passing links.

tldr is its actually hard and really limited luck to work in ttc prices into buyers play. So people just buy whatevers infront of them.

kargen27

winterscrolls229prerb18_ESO wrote: »

Im still very new to motifs, the dismay of guild only auction houses and very recently just found tamriel trade center.

The problem is from a buyers perspective you have no idea this even exists, and potentially alot of gold.

The whole concept of tamriel trade center only works for subset of players, most likely advanced ones. For a newer player, you get bored, go have a look only by complete random chance, see something and decide if you want it for the price.

I bet a really significant portion of trades is driven by "shrug okay", nothing to do with tamriel trade center.

For me it was absolutely dumb coincidence. First i finally worked out how to use the outfit system, and then by just happy luck found a guild trader who had motifs (not all of them do), and was super happy to patch up the non interesting ones for a few hundred to 1k for the purples. Had i by chance stopped off at the guild trader on the other side of the market, i would never ever have bothered to look again until who knows.. it was that close.

That didn't lead me to ttc either. What it was was hitting cp160. I glimpsed past that the beginner jewel set was from pvp, sighed, but then also read you could buy them. Then i went have a look. Then i saw the dramatic variability in prices of same thing between 3 stores in one area.. to the extent that whole thing is just completely disorganised.

It was only then i found ttc via some passing links.

tldr is its actually hard and really limited luck to work in ttc prices into buyers play. So people just buy whatevers infront of them.

For some players trading is endgame activity. They spend as much time getting good at trading as trial guilds do trying to make leader boards. You wouldn't expect a new player to be able to jump straight into vet trials and in the same way you shouldn't expect a new player to get everything they can out of trading.
Over time I've learned which traders are more likely to have what items. If a guild is consistently getting the same spot you can see a pattern to what they sell. Different activities give different goods to sell so what a guilds members like to run has a big affect on the stock you will find in their trader. A wrench does get thrown into the works when a favorite guild loses their spot for a week. Part of the fun in trading. Players just need to decide are they willing to spend time hunting for an item or just risk overspending by grabbing the first they see.
The current system could use a few tweaks but overall it works fairly well.

Danikat

So just to check: everyone is confident that TTC is working as it always has, including only using current listings to determine prices (or ones it thinks are current, not going off sales like MM and ATT do)? The change is in what's actually being listed and sold, not a fault with the data the addon is recording or displaying on the website?

I always understood TTC to be quicker to respond to changes in the market than other trading addons because it works off current listings rather than what's sold, so it will reflect higher/lower prices as soon as sellers start to offer them rather than when enough of them sell to shift the average, but for the same reason it usually over estimates prices because it includes over-priced items which will never actually sell rather than just the ones buyers are willing to pay for.

So to hear that TTC is both behind the times and under estimating prices is surprising to me. My first reaction when I noticed was to assume the addon itself was broken and to hold off on trying to buy anything until it was fixed. But if it's working and just can't keep up I guess I can't rely on getting accurate price info and will have to wait for things to settle down before buying any more motifs.

winterscrolls229prerb18_ESO wrote: »

Im still very new to motifs, the dismay of guild only auction houses and very recently just found tamriel trade center.

The problem is from a buyers perspective you have no idea this even exists, and potentially alot of gold.

The whole concept of tamriel trade center only works for subset of players, most likely advanced ones. For a newer player, you get bored, go have a look only by complete random chance, see something and decide if you want it for the price.

I bet a really significant portion of trades is driven by "shrug okay", nothing to do with tamriel trade center.

For me it was absolutely dumb coincidence. First i finally worked out how to use the outfit system, and then by just happy luck found a guild trader who had motifs (not all of them do), and was super happy to patch up the non interesting ones for a few hundred to 1k for the purples. Had i by chance stopped off at the guild trader on the other side of the market, i would never ever have bothered to look again until who knows.. it was that close.

That didn't lead me to ttc either. What it was was hitting cp160. I glimpsed past that the beginner jewel set was from pvp, sighed, but then also read you could buy them. Then i went have a look. Then i saw the dramatic variability in prices of same thing between 3 stores in one area.. to the extent that whole thing is just completely disorganised.

It was only then i found ttc via some passing links.

tldr is its actually hard and really limited luck to work in ttc prices into buyers play. So people just buy whatevers infront of them.

Believe it or not what you described is exactly how ZOS intends the system to work. TTC is a player-run website (and addon on PC) designed to take some of the frustration out of buying but the game will never point you to it because it's not official and from ZOS's perspective not supposed to be part of the system. They want you to go through that time sink of wandering around hoping you randomly find a trader selling what you want to buy.

Before I found TTC I just didn't bother with buying from other players (or selling to them). I'd occasionally ask my guild if there was something I really needed and couldn't find, but mostly I just stuck to using what I found myself. I don't have enough spare time to waste it on virtual shopping. I don't even like real shopping and at least then I can tell going in which shops sell the type of item I'm looking for instead of having to check each one just in case.