Much needed combat lesson/question/query (Magcros pve)

Joxer61

Ok, so I have read all over here and other places about Magcros and pretty much everyone feels they suck buttermilk. But...if that is to be believed then why are there so many (maj vuln i get) in trials (ESO Logs) and the damage they are doing is pretty damn good?
So if they really are that bad would not the numbers say as much? Are the ones saying they suck just folks (like me, lol) that suck at playing them?
I mean I could tend to believe the talk if they were bottom feeders for damage so that cant be 100% spot on, can it.
Also trying to understand this for myself as I keep staring one, get to like 30 and it fizzles, because to me they are clunky, BB fires when it gets off the phone or whatever and siphon still spins me 'round, right around baby right 'round......
So yea...anyone able to shed some insight into why if Magcros suck sooo bad they manage to bring it? (palyer skill perhaps?)

Atherakhia

Let me preface this by making it very clear I am by no means an expert. I have no interest in pushing progression and generally only do trials with my guild and not the type to go chasing achievements.

With that out of the way, I'm assuming this link would be helpful (if link isn't allowed I can edit post to remove it etc.):
https://www.esologs.com/zone/statistics/13#dataset=95

What the link is showing you is the logged parse damage on the training dummy. Based off that link it would appear Mag Necromancers are the lowest damaging mag class by a fairly considerable margin. Certainly when compared to the best classes. So one would assume based off that data that Necromancers are brought largely for Major Vuln and little else. For most players, like me, this really isn't a big deal because we're in friendly guilds and doing content with friends and not pushing end-game content. But for a group pushing content, they'd likely try to stack a group in favor of the most DPS.

I'm personally of the opinion no class should be so unique that they're the only one that can bring a specific major/minor buff or debuff. So if they should ever give major vuln to another class (which I think they should) why would a progress oriented guild/group ever bring a Necromancer?

So beyond just that, the class also has numerous bugs and mechanical problems associated with it. The most obvious one is blastbones. Blastbones has issues where the skill remains disabled after an existing BB explodes. It has issues where the skeleton will leap and explode and do no damage. It has pathing issues where it will just hover around in place for several seconds doing nothing. BB also is limited to one active skeleton at a time. This means is a Necromancer isn't standing very close to the target, they can't use another BB until the initial one activates. This means rotations can be difficult to learn and are more dynamic than they need to be. BB is also such a large part of their damage that it forces Necromancers to bar swap more than probably any other class by far and everyone knows how fraught with disaster bar swapping is as even the most basic mechanic this whole game is designed around doesn't work as expected half the time.

Then there's issue with the tether skills sometimes picking a corpse at your feet instead of the corpse by the boss causing you to lose damage. Or how your character twists to cast on an unintended corpse (in theory fixed, but I never bothered to get on PTS to test). People often complain that flaming skulls has pathing issues (you will see them fire off in a random direction) but I've personally not noticed this.

And this is just PvE. For PvP, the MagCro is lawl.

I'm sure others who are more experienced will chime in too.

Joxer61

two things....while I appreciate the thought process and your info.....those numbers arent a true picture. You should have an equal amount of parses per Class....whereas like Stamden has only 62 vs NBs 500+?
Also, the dummy is not a trial boss. Its great for practice but by no means should it be used to measure what one can do in actual run. Thats why I look at the posted parses of everyone who posts, just to see whats running and where and that.
But yea, Necros need some love, thats for sure.

Atherakhia

I disagree.

There are obvious disadvantages to using training dummy parses to build a DPS ranking. Things like people specifically using parse sets/food that they would not ordinarily use. Or bar layouts that ignore everything but maximizing DPS. But the one clear advantage using dummy parses gives you is it removes a lot of the other variables in play and gives all classes a level playing field. There are no concerns about specific boss mechanics favoring a certain class or another. No movement to worry about reducing the uptime of buffs, etc. It's a level playing field with only one goal in mind: maximize DPS. I'm really not sure there's another way to really rank classes and specs when no 2 bosses are the same and no 2 fights on the same boss are the same.

As for sample size, that's a reasonable argument to make but one of less concern when dealing with training dummies because there are fewer variables to control for. But sample size will affect the margin of error if you want to get a general range of where a class stands.

UntilValhalla13

They ARE clunky and blastbones/siphon only work half of the time, but they do bring a unique debuff that no other class has. They are literally just ulti generators. I don't enjoy playing mine, but I do it for the good of the group.

Take away the colossus, and there are way better dps classes that have skills that actually function. But, we're stuck with them, and they're going to be like 1/3 of trial dps groups for the foreseeable future. Maybe one day zos will fix the targeting.




Maybe...

YandereGirlfriend

I love my magRomancer but, of course, also agree that it is a woeful state right now.

PvP'ers would hate it but I really think that the self-synergy morph of Boneyard is lame and breaks with the entire idea of synergies (e.g. that they are not meant for you to use but rather for assisting teammates) and that the morph needs to be stripped away and re-imagined entirely.

I would move the self-synergy (if it must stay...) to the Fracture/Breach morph to make it the obvious PvP choice and then remove the corpse-scaling from that morph and add it to the new morph. Then, increase the scaling so that Boneyard does double damage with a corpse (rather than 1.5x) as a small but meaningful buff for magRomancers in PvE.

Riccochet Skull should probably lose the random and generally rather useless cleave and get the Stamina morph treatment of allowing any Grave Lord ability to count toward the increased damage.

Take Mystic Siphon back off of the GCD timer.

Fix Stalking Blastbones and either increase the base damage to at least 1.25x of the Stamina morph or give it an execute mechanic to do double damage against targets <25% health.

Finally, turn Empowered Grasp into an actually useful skill by dropping the snare/maim and instead allowing the Empower to last for 10 seconds a la Solar Barrage rather than being consumed on the first Light Attack.

katorga

Why do the dummy parses on esologs differ so highly from the actual dungeon parses for the class?

Just curious. Granted the targeting issues are horrendous, but the class appears to do better in actual content than against dummies. Looking at the dps rankings for content and magcro is in the top 4 with numbers in the ballpark of the other mag dps. Or am I reading the site wrong?

Atherakhia

Because an actual dungeon isn't you standing still 100% of the fight hitting the target with 100% buff/debuff uptime. Sustain is also horrendous for most magicka classes but Necro doesn't generally have sustain issues.