Vampire Rework Suggestion

Jamaroo172

While Greymoor added a fresh new take to this aspect of the game, it still falls behind in a lot of areas such as a couple of 'poor' skills and a very unbalanced negative to positive ratio of stage effects (hence why you will see a lot of people recommending builds or vamp use at no higher than stage 1).

Here are some possible changes that could be added too make this a interesting and fun playstyle;



Stage adjustment:

The Current Stage perks and handicaps don't balance out with skill cost, vulnerability to fire and health regen all being hit hard for the sake of vampire abilities being cheaper. As there is not an abundance of vampire skills, there is not a lot of ability flexibility in terms of justifying players to advance to stage 4 to get a full benefit.

To fix this we can provide a better stage equilibrium, This can be done by;

-Adding a Incremental damage/ critical rate buff per stage, balanced in a way much like Thrassians work, players become very dangerous in both PvE and PvP, but are subject to certain weaknesses. The increase should be large enough to justify the increased normal ability cost, which appears to be the main obstacle for builds relating to Vampire. Obviously the figures can't be too high either otherwise we encounter a new problem.

-A new Negative is added to create more player build diversity in PvP to counteract Vampires. Depending on stage, Players will receive additional damage from Fighters Guild Skills, but only if the user is 'Human'. This should create a really interesting interaction between players in PvP situations where high stage Vampires may be used for larger amounts of damage, but can be hit very hard by Fire AND Fighters Guild skills. plus it suits a theme.

-Vampire Ultimate benefits from an duration increase per stage, Higher stages allow for players to remain in Scion form longer.


Abilities:

There are a few really nice abilities in the vampire line, others are mediocre or simply not useful, a few tweaks can be added to improve this and make skills more impressive and useful.

Here are a few examples;

-Perfect Scion Also receives a Timer much alike the Werewolf mechanic, however it is much shorter and is kill based rather than dependent on 'feeding'. The timer is short to support a very aggressive playstyle that rewards players for slaughtering enemies like a true monster. this effect along with the stage 5 benefit should give player a nice trade between damage and sustain options for morphing this ultimate.

- Vampiric Drain is perhaps one of the most lackluster skills in the lineup, and needs serious rework to bring it more in line with other skills. To improve the skill, the damage is increased and brought in line with that of Radiant Oppression of the Templar skill line, serving as a Vampiric execute equivalent with a heal. Morphs carry the same effect.

- Eviscerate is a VERY nice skill, and does not need any changes, however it could use more diversification for more uses., The Ability and it's morphs are granted a ranged alternate use. The ability icon changes (much like a few other skills like 'grim focus') depending if the player is in melee range and the ability becomes ranged depending on this distance. this should diversify play styles with the skill as a DPS Spamming skill. Traits can change depending on range making the skill more interesting.

-Elusive Mist has invisibility added for a couple of seconds after activating skill, this may justify the skill more for 'squishy' Characters to duck out of combat for a safer escape.



Other:

There are always more ways to create a more interesting experience for this aspect of the game, adding more Vampire specific item sets (as well as new Mythic items and monster sets) that largely benefit Vampires only should REALLY expand builds. Buff Foods and potions could also be added to make the aspect more creative.



This Concludes the Suggestion, while not likely it will ever be considered, it should serve as a discussion for players who wish to expand on their thoughts and changes they wish to see in relation to the Vampire role in ESO

Take Care!

Jamaroo

Evemir

I think vampires need a complete rework. Again. The thing is that passive skills are extremely doubtful in their usefulness most of the time and require stages of vampirism,and the vampire skills themselves are inferior to class and weapon skills.

I think they need to put more emphasis on vampire skills and give players a reason to place 5 vampire skills on the panel, so that it was at least not completely useless as it is now

5 WW skills are weaker than 10 skills of conventional build, but not so much as to be a burden in the group and be cast out. Not so much that you feel completely useless and use them just for the sake of RP

They need to do something similar with a vampire.

Vevvev

I'm under the assumption that when coming up with vampire rework ideas we should suggest small changes instead of massive reworks despite a complete revamp being required. I do agree with a few of the things you've come up with but the thing regarding Elusive mist is... broken? Only because turning it on procs the global cooldown not keeping it on, which is how you can instantly go from a mist to casting a skill. If it gave invisibility for a couple of seconds it'd be the cheapest cloak in the game and then nobody in their right mind would even think about going stage 4.

Jamaroo172

Evemir wrote: »

I think vampires need a complete rework. Again. The thing is that passive skills are extremely doubtful in their usefulness most of the time and require stages of vampirism,and the vampire skills themselves are inferior to class and weapon skills.

I think they need to put more emphasis on vampire skills and give players a reason to place 5 vampire skills on the panel, so that it was at least not completely useless as it is now

5 WW skills are weaker than 10 skills of conventional build, but not so much as to be a burden in the group and be cast out. Not so much that you feel completely useless and use them just for the sake of RP

They need to do something similar with a vampire.

This is going to sounds more personal, but in regards to what you have stated i find that Werewolf is FAR superior in terms of use and flexibility and 'safety' than vampire. it is after all the alternate to Vampire, however the user suffers no ill effects aside from Ultimate Dependency , in fact you get a stamina regen boost passive for having ultimate slotted. You get a significant survivability and damage boost, at the 'cost' of having no real benefit for team content (other than being a source of DPS )

I use WW for Maelstrom Arena a lot, for any form of solo content it carries immense benefit. a Benefit that Vampire pales in comparison to.

I don't want to see WW nerfed (as this would be a cheap way to make Vamp look better), but rather see Vampire elevated to a more likened use with a more complex payoff system. not so much see Vampires as massive powerhouses like Werewolves are, but something that if a player is willing to accept certain sacrifices they can become very dangerous in their own right. Ultimately making the Player feel a little evil by feeding constantly and effects that reinforce this monstrous trait.

Vevvev wrote: »

I'm under the assumption that when coming up with vampire rework ideas we should suggest small changes instead of massive reworks despite a complete revamp being required. I do agree with a few of the things you've come up with but the thing regarding Elusive mist is... broken? Only because turning it on procs the global cooldown not keeping it on, which is how you can instantly go from a mist to casting a skill. If it gave invisibility for a couple of seconds it'd be the cheapest cloak in the game and then nobody in their right mind would even think about going stage 4.

I personally cannot comment on the mist skills, I am 1 level off from getting it funny enough (i don't use my vamp toon very often at all) however i drew my example and suggestion from what i have heard numerous people discuss when asked about Vampire Skills. While i am sure that people use the Elusive mist skill, it seems the greater choice of others is to go with Blood mist morph. I really want to see this sort of 'obvious' choice making removed from the game (not just vampire, but other skills too). adding new flavor and payoffs to skills that really make players think on what they really want to use, as well as producing more build variations because of it.

I whole heartedly agree with what you stated, and in hindsight i too see that it would be cheap Invisibility. so to offset this the skill could change depending on stage, also keeping in mind that Mist skills are criminal acts, while you get the invisibility you will likely also receive a bounty unlike the passive stage 4 skill. The example is used is more for dropping out of combat to increase survivability of the player even further. I didn't intend this to be very long (2-3 seconds at most) but enough to make Elusive mist feel more 'Elusive'

Grianasteri

I think there are some skilled players who have/are utilising vampirism to great effect, in both PVE and PVP.

One of the intentions was to stop EVERYONE becoming a vampire, just for the passive buffs. This has in large part been achieved.

Part of the way its been achieved, is that the skill cap is higher to make vampirism actually work, that and of course the fact you kinda need to build into vampirism far more than before, or its just not worth it.

I see plenty of folk commenting across forums who do not seem to understand how to get the most out of vampirism, that or they do but find it too difficult to use... there is that skill cap element again.

I do think some revision will come in due course, but I do not thin it needs a radical overhaul, I think its in a far far better place now than before the changes.

Kittytravel

Grianasteri wrote: »

I think there are some skilled players who have/are utilising vampirism to great effect, in both PVE and PVP.

One of the intentions was to stop EVERYONE becoming a vampire, just for the passive buffs. This has in large part been achieved.

Part of the way its been achieved, is that the skill cap is higher to make vampirism actually work, that and of course the fact you kinda need to build into vampirism far more than before, or its just not worth it.

I see plenty of folk commenting across forums who do not seem to understand how to get the most out of vampirism, that or they do but find it too difficult to use... there is that skill cap element again.

I do think some revision will come in due course, but I do not thin it needs a radical overhaul, I think its in a far far better place now than before the changes.

I can agree with this and the only thing I honestly think Vampire lacks that Werewolf doesn't is a core mechanic; Vampire is still an additional skill line much like Psijic/Fighters/Mage guild and it really needs something that solidifies it as its own existence.
The mechanic they made with Blood for Blood is interesting and can be a solid basis for that core mechanic; give the buff a name like "Corrupted Blood" or something and make it so while affected by it they cannot receive heals from allies but all the vampire skills get a damage increase. The trade off becomes a independent vampire who has to manage their own HP without relying on a healer but also gets bonuses for doing so. After that just a few skill tweaks to make it have more DPS oriented morphs for combat and we have ourselves a fun little skill line.

Lord-Otto

Kittytravel wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

I think there are some skilled players who have/are utilising vampirism to great effect, in both PVE and PVP.

One of the intentions was to stop EVERYONE becoming a vampire, just for the passive buffs. This has in large part been achieved.

Part of the way its been achieved, is that the skill cap is higher to make vampirism actually work, that and of course the fact you kinda need to build into vampirism far more than before, or its just not worth it.

I see plenty of folk commenting across forums who do not seem to understand how to get the most out of vampirism, that or they do but find it too difficult to use... there is that skill cap element again.

I do think some revision will come in due course, but I do not thin it needs a radical overhaul, I think its in a far far better place now than before the changes.

I can agree with this and the only thing I honestly think Vampire lacks that Werewolf doesn't is a core mechanic; Vampire is still an additional skill line much like Psijic/Fighters/Mage guild and it really needs something that solidifies it as its own existence.
The mechanic they made with Blood for Blood is interesting and can be a solid basis for that core mechanic; give the buff a name like "Corrupted Blood" or something and make it so while affected by it they cannot receive heals from allies but all the vampire skills get a damage increase. The trade off becomes a independent vampire who has to manage their own HP without relying on a healer but also gets bonuses for doing so. After that just a few skill tweaks to make it have more DPS oriented morphs for combat and we have ourselves a fun little skill line.

It wouldn't work in difficult group content. That's the whole problem people have with the change. You need the heals in endgame. And if vampirism doesn't work in endgame, there is no point in having it.