Snipe is ruining entire Battle Ground matches

StarOfElyon

There are few things less fun than having two or three people spamming poison injection on you from different directions. People who actually want to fight can't even go at it because snipe is forcing us to take cover and hide. I'm running from one sniper just to get shot by another. Why even bother to learn to play the game? Why bother learning to block, bash, interrupt, turn and burn? For all that skill, I get to find 6k, 8k, and 10k snipes in my death recap when sometimes I didn't even know I was being hit.

Berchelous

Snipe - Petsorc - Killstealer Sorc - Broken Stamcro. They just want to see "you finished off x".

StarOfElyon

Kill-stealing Sorcs have to drive their teammates mad.

Khatou

StarOfElyon wrote: »

There are few things less fun than having two or three people spamming poison injection on you from different directions. People who actually want to fight can't even go at it because snipe is forcing us to take cover and hide. I'm running from one sniper just to get shot by another. Why even bother to learn to play the game? Why bother learning to block, bash, interrupt, turn and burn? For all that skill, I get to find 6k, 8k, and 10k snipes in my death recap when sometimes I didn't even know I was being hit.

Because being assaulted against 3 guys playing the most abused weapon is maybe better? playing archer in such a mode is far from being as simple as you think!

Beardimus

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Kill-stealing Sorcs have to drive their teammates mad.

Why on EARTH would they?? It's a team game.

As for snipe, it's broken. Fix it or nerf it

MurderMostFoul

The funny thing is, "good" dedicated snipe spammers will often have good individual results in deathmatch (getting 10 or so kills and minimal deaths), but their team still won't win. Snipe spammers offer zero support to their teammates, and oftentimes just steal their kills. They stay removed from combat, increasing the damage pressure on thier teammates. They aren't healing or buffing or purging or group debuffing.

Frankly, dedicated snipe spamming is a cowardly, selfish playstyle that, even when done well, does little to help a team succeed.

x48rph

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

The funny thing is, "good" dedicated snipe spammers will often have good individual results in deathmatch (getting 10 or so kills and minimal deaths), but their team still won't win. Snipe spammers offer zero support to their teammates, and oftentimes just steal their kills. They stay removed from combat, increasing the damage pressure on thier teammates. They aren't healing or buffing or purging or group debuffing.

Frankly, dedicated snipe spamming is a cowardly, selfish playstyle that, even when done well, does little to help a team succeed.

I'd argue they are removing pressure from you by removing you opponent. It's no different then half the magicka builds standing behind the brawlers hitting you with ranged crap like curse, frags, crushing shock, bird spam, or any other of the numerous ranged abilities while kiting around and as you say, staying removed from combat.

MurderMostFoul

x48rph wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

The funny thing is, "good" dedicated snipe spammers will often have good individual results in deathmatch (getting 10 or so kills and minimal deaths), but their team still won't win. Snipe spammers offer zero support to their teammates, and oftentimes just steal their kills. They stay removed from combat, increasing the damage pressure on thier teammates. They aren't healing or buffing or purging or group debuffing.

Frankly, dedicated snipe spamming is a cowardly, selfish playstyle that, even when done well, does little to help a team succeed.

I'd argue they are removing pressure from you by removing you opponent. It's no different then half the magicka builds standing behind the brawlers hitting you with ranged crap like curse, frags, crushing shock, bird spam, or any other of the numerous ranged abilities while kiting around and as you say, staying removed from combat.

Kitting as a ranged player means you've got your opponent's attention. Snipe spammers spend 90+% of their time in stealth, during which their teammates get all the pressure. There is a small percentage of time snipe spammers spend out of stealth as they try to desync someone, but as soon as an opponent goes for them, they go back into stealth.

nsmurfer

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

x48rph wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

The funny thing is, "good" dedicated snipe spammers will often have good individual results in deathmatch (getting 10 or so kills and minimal deaths), but their team still won't win. Snipe spammers offer zero support to their teammates, and oftentimes just steal their kills. They stay removed from combat, increasing the damage pressure on thier teammates. They aren't healing or buffing or purging or group debuffing.

Frankly, dedicated snipe spamming is a cowardly, selfish playstyle that, even when done well, does little to help a team succeed.

I'd argue they are removing pressure from you by removing you opponent. It's no different then half the magicka builds standing behind the brawlers hitting you with ranged crap like curse, frags, crushing shock, bird spam, or any other of the numerous ranged abilities while kiting around and as you say, staying removed from combat.

Kitting as a ranged player means you've got your opponent's attention. Snipe spammers spend 90+% of their time in stealth, during which their teammates get all the pressure. There is a small percentage of time snipe spammers spend out of stealth as they try to desync someone, but as soon as an opponent goes for them, they go back into stealth.

That is nothing to do with Snipe but more to do with stamNBs in BG in general. Never fought a single stamblade in BGs that does not disengage immediately after being spotted. Only exception is dark cloak blades which is a lost breed. Honestly it is Cloak that needs a nerf. Snipe is only an issue on stamblades, on other classes it is perfectly balanced. The funny thing is that there are stamblade builds which can destroy from range with Silver shards and is better than ganking but is never complained about how to their rarity.

Stamblades as a whole is a balance issue since the inception of the game, any sort of ranged spammable is straight up broken when used by them due to lack to counterplay. Cloak really needs a higher cost. Have its cost reduced by the number of light armor pieces to have the cost the same of magblade.

x48rph

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

x48rph wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

The funny thing is, "good" dedicated snipe spammers will often have good individual results in deathmatch (getting 10 or so kills and minimal deaths), but their team still won't win. Snipe spammers offer zero support to their teammates, and oftentimes just steal their kills. They stay removed from combat, increasing the damage pressure on thier teammates. They aren't healing or buffing or purging or group debuffing.

Frankly, dedicated snipe spamming is a cowardly, selfish playstyle that, even when done well, does little to help a team succeed.

I'd argue they are removing pressure from you by removing you opponent. It's no different then half the magicka builds standing behind the brawlers hitting you with ranged crap like curse, frags, crushing shock, bird spam, or any other of the numerous ranged abilities while kiting around and as you say, staying removed from combat.

Kitting as a ranged player means you've got your opponent's attention. Snipe spammers spend 90+% of their time in stealth, during which their teammates get all the pressure. There is a small percentage of time snipe spammers spend out of stealth as they try to desync someone, but as soon as an opponent goes for them, they go back into stealth.

Guess I must just do it wrong as I kite around all the time on my bow/bow warden which makes heave use of snipe. I also have no problem getting into the thick of things on my nb or warden. Snipe only has a slightly longer cast time then dizzy and hits harder so it's all around a good ability once your used to the cast time

MurderMostFoul

I only consider cloaking stamblades to be true "dedicated snipe spammers." Snipe is fine on other classes as the can't design their builds around desyncs the way stamblades can.

In all honesty, I really can't remember seeing snipe from anything but stamblades in BGs, on xbox na at least.

x48rph

nsmurfer wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

x48rph wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

The funny thing is, "good" dedicated snipe spammers will often have good individual results in deathmatch (getting 10 or so kills and minimal deaths), but their team still won't win. Snipe spammers offer zero support to their teammates, and oftentimes just steal their kills. They stay removed from combat, increasing the damage pressure on thier teammates. They aren't healing or buffing or purging or group debuffing.

Frankly, dedicated snipe spamming is a cowardly, selfish playstyle that, even when done well, does little to help a team succeed.

I'd argue they are removing pressure from you by removing you opponent. It's no different then half the magicka builds standing behind the brawlers hitting you with ranged crap like curse, frags, crushing shock, bird spam, or any other of the numerous ranged abilities while kiting around and as you say, staying removed from combat.

Kitting as a ranged player means you've got your opponent's attention. Snipe spammers spend 90+% of their time in stealth, during which their teammates get all the pressure. There is a small percentage of time snipe spammers spend out of stealth as they try to desync someone, but as soon as an opponent goes for them, they go back into stealth.

That is nothing to do with Snipe but more to do with stamNBs in BG in general. Never fought a single stamblade in BGs that does not disengage immediately after being spotted. Only exception is dark cloak blades which is a lost breed. Honestly it is Cloak that needs a nerf. Snipe is only an issue on stamblades, on other classes it is perfectly balanced. The funny thing is that there are stamblade builds which can destroy from range with Silver shards and is better than ganking but is never complained about how to their rarity.

Stamblades as a whole is a balance issue since the inception of the game, any sort of ranged spammable is straight up broken when used by them due to lack to counterplay. Cloak really needs a higher cost. Have its cost reduced by the number of light armor pieces to have the cost the same of magblade.

Stamnb brawler with dark cloak used to be so much fun but sadly, it's not really a very viable playstyle any more. Literally pick any other class and you can put the same gear on it and make a better brawler. I don't think cloak is so much the issue with nightblades as it's more of a lack of any other viable options to cloak so every nb pretty much uses it.

MurderMostFoul

x48rph wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

x48rph wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

The funny thing is, "good" dedicated snipe spammers will often have good individual results in deathmatch (getting 10 or so kills and minimal deaths), but their team still won't win. Snipe spammers offer zero support to their teammates, and oftentimes just steal their kills. They stay removed from combat, increasing the damage pressure on thier teammates. They aren't healing or buffing or purging or group debuffing.

Frankly, dedicated snipe spamming is a cowardly, selfish playstyle that, even when done well, does little to help a team succeed.

I'd argue they are removing pressure from you by removing you opponent. It's no different then half the magicka builds standing behind the brawlers hitting you with ranged crap like curse, frags, crushing shock, bird spam, or any other of the numerous ranged abilities while kiting around and as you say, staying removed from combat.

Kitting as a ranged player means you've got your opponent's attention. Snipe spammers spend 90+% of their time in stealth, during which their teammates get all the pressure. There is a small percentage of time snipe spammers spend out of stealth as they try to desync someone, but as soon as an opponent goes for them, they go back into stealth.

That is nothing to do with Snipe but more to do with stamNBs in BG in general. Never fought a single stamblade in BGs that does not disengage immediately after being spotted. Only exception is dark cloak blades which is a lost breed. Honestly it is Cloak that needs a nerf. Snipe is only an issue on stamblades, on other classes it is perfectly balanced. The funny thing is that there are stamblade builds which can destroy from range with Silver shards and is better than ganking but is never complained about how to their rarity.

Stamblades as a whole is a balance issue since the inception of the game, any sort of ranged spammable is straight up broken when used by them due to lack to counterplay. Cloak really needs a higher cost. Have its cost reduced by the number of light armor pieces to have the cost the same of magblade.

Stamnb brawler with dark cloak used to be so much fun but sadly, it's not really a very viable playstyle any more. Literally pick any other class and you can put the same gear on it and make a better brawler. I don't think cloak is so much the issue with nightblades as it's more of a lack of any other viable options to cloak so every nb pretty much uses it.

I play a stam version of every class in BGs, including a no-snipe, melee stamblade. I use cloak, but mostly as an escape tool.

And I have to agree, it's less good than the other stam classes. Sure, i can get plenty of kills and survive well enough. But if you get into a match with a group that gets well organized with heals and/or lots of balled up AOE, your offensive efforts can feel pretty futile.

ecru

x48rph wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

The funny thing is, "good" dedicated snipe spammers will often have good individual results in deathmatch (getting 10 or so kills and minimal deaths), but their team still won't win. Snipe spammers offer zero support to their teammates, and oftentimes just steal their kills. They stay removed from combat, increasing the damage pressure on thier teammates. They aren't healing or buffing or purging or group debuffing.

Frankly, dedicated snipe spamming is a cowardly, selfish playstyle that, even when done well, does little to help a team succeed.

I'd argue they are removing pressure from you by removing you opponent. It's no different then half the magicka builds standing behind the brawlers hitting you with ranged crap like curse, frags, crushing shock, bird spam, or any other of the numerous ranged abilities while kiting around and as you say, staying removed from combat.

This is wrong, they're doing the opposite since more often than not they aren't removing any opponents due to poor target selection combined with an inability to coordinate with your teammate(s) spamming snipe since it won't be immediately obvious who they're focusing. When you have two people on your team running around cloaked and spamming snipe, you're on a team with only two targets to focus. This turns every fight with you and your only present teammate into a 4v2 or worse, causing you to take twice as much damage as you would otherwise, and often having to retreat or just getting melted because heals and mitigation aren't strong enough anymore to survive being focused like that. You'll see the same problem if you're the only melee player on a team with three ranged standing 20m behind you--you end up facetanking all of the damage because you're the only target up front to focus.

I'm probably starting to sound like a broken record here but these two issues (cloaked teammates or all ranged teammates) highlights yet another problem with the 4v4v4 system, or more importantly, small team sizes. One or two teammates not being present during the fight turns the odds from 1:1 to 1:2 or 1:3 in your opponent's favor. In an 8v8 scenario, two teammates not being present only leaves you in a 6v8 scenario, which isn't nearly as bad. A small number of targets means more focused damage and less survivability.

4v4v4 pretty much ruins every chance of good, enjoyable, interesting pvp.

Khatou

What clearly spoils the pvp in this game is clearly the 2h far too brutal with an abused buff damage followed by an abused heal, any duel is impossible not at all fair, when you see the ridiculous heal of the archer only 1 and still sometimes you have to make a sacrifice if you chose the other morph.

Luckily the archer is a bit abused, but far from it compared to other tricks!

The most frustrating thing about archering is the attacks too much dodging for my taste compared to another weapon!

Without forgetting, this moment where you often get your kill stolen by your ally or opponent nothing more frustrating!

UrbanMonk

What? The moment I see 3 of my team mates with Bows and Tails going into sneK mode at the end of countdownn....

MurderMostFoul

Khatou wrote: »

What clearly spoils the pvp in this game is clearly the 2h far too brutal with an abused buff damage followed by an abused heal, any duel is impossible not at all fair, when you see the ridiculous heal of the archer only 1 and still sometimes you have to make a sacrifice if you chose the other morph.

Luckily the archer is a bit abused, but far from it compared to other tricks!

The most frustrating thing about archering is the attacks too much dodging for my taste compared to another weapon!

Without forgetting, this moment where you often get your kill stolen by your ally or opponent nothing more frustrating!

2H is fine bro. You really need to not fuss about 2H so much and try to understand the game more fully.

SshadowSscale

MurderMostFoul[quote= wrote:

Khatou wrote: »

What clearly spoils the pvp in this game is clearly the 2h far too brutal with an abused buff damage followed by an abused heal, any duel is impossible not at all fair, when you see the ridiculous heal of the archer only 1 and still sometimes you have to make a sacrifice if you chose the other morph.

Luckily the archer is a bit abused, but far from it compared to other tricks!

The most frustrating thing about archering is the attacks too much dodging for my taste compared to another weapon!

Without forgetting, this moment where you often get your kill stolen by your ally or opponent nothing more frustrating!

2H is fine bro. You really need to not fuss about 2H so much and try to understand the game more fully.

One could make the exact same argument for every weapon in the game... Bow/staff/duel wield/ sword and board is fine dude you really don't have to fuss about them so much and try to understand the game more fully...... Works with every weapon wich in essence means the weapons are all balanced equally.... Wich they are not and certain weapons are way stronget than other weapons

MurderMostFoul

SshadowSscale wrote: »

MurderMostFoul[quote= wrote:

Khatou wrote: »

What clearly spoils the pvp in this game is clearly the 2h far too brutal with an abused buff damage followed by an abused heal, any duel is impossible not at all fair, when you see the ridiculous heal of the archer only 1 and still sometimes you have to make a sacrifice if you chose the other morph.

Luckily the archer is a bit abused, but far from it compared to other tricks!

The most frustrating thing about archering is the attacks too much dodging for my taste compared to another weapon!

Without forgetting, this moment where you often get your kill stolen by your ally or opponent nothing more frustrating!

2H is fine bro. You really need to not fuss about 2H so much and try to understand the game more fully.

One could make the exact same argument for every weapon in the game... Bow/staff/duel wield/ sword and board is fine dude you really don't have to fuss about them so much and try to understand the game more fully...... Works with every weapon wich in essence means the weapons are all balanced equally.... Wich they are not and certain weapons are way stronget than other weapons

It works because it is true. No weapon skill lines are outright over powered. Are they all equal? No. Could some use tweeks? Yes. But you can still be very successful with all of them.

Xologamer

StarOfElyon wrote: »

There are few things less fun than having two or three people spamming poison injection on you from different directions. People who actually want to fight can't even go at it because snipe is forcing us to take cover and hide. I'm running from one sniper just to get shot by another. Why even bother to learn to play the game? Why bother learning to block, bash, interrupt, turn and burn? For all that skill, I get to find 6k, 8k, and 10k snipes in my death recap when sometimes I didn't even know I was being hit.

snipe doesnt kill battle grounds snipe kills unexpierenced players (short noo*s)

Qbiken

The main issue that needs to be addressed is the ability to attack from your spawn location. The spawn should act like the sanctuary zones in Imperial City where you can´t attack, use abilities or be attacked. Unless ZOS adds a feature where I´m able to get up to enemy teams spawn this should be changed.

Xologamer wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

There are few things less fun than having two or three people spamming poison injection on you from different directions. People who actually want to fight can't even go at it because snipe is forcing us to take cover and hide. I'm running from one sniper just to get shot by another. Why even bother to learn to play the game? Why bother learning to block, bash, interrupt, turn and burn? For all that skill, I get to find 6k, 8k, and 10k snipes in my death recap when sometimes I didn't even know I was being hit.

snipe doesnt kill battle grounds snipe kills unexpierenced players (short noo*s)

Yes, I also love getting desynced by 3-4 snipes when only 1 audio queue is heard. And you don´t even need an instance or BG with high latency to get desynced by snipe. If you know how you can reproduce the desync with 100% success rate.

Xologamer

Qbiken wrote: »

The main issue that needs to be addressed is the ability to attack from your spawn location. The spawn should act like the sanctuary zones in Imperial City where you can´t attack, use abilities or be attacked. Unless ZOS adds a feature where I´m able to get up to enemy teams spawn this should be changed.

Xologamer wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

There are few things less fun than having two or three people spamming poison injection on you from different directions. People who actually want to fight can't even go at it because snipe is forcing us to take cover and hide. I'm running from one sniper just to get shot by another. Why even bother to learn to play the game? Why bother learning to block, bash, interrupt, turn and burn? For all that skill, I get to find 6k, 8k, and 10k snipes in my death recap when sometimes I didn't even know I was being hit.

snipe doesnt kill battle grounds snipe kills unexpierenced players (short noo*s)

Yes, I also love getting desynced by 3-4 snipes when only 1 audio queue is heard. And you don´t even need an instance or BG with high latency to get desynced by snipe. If you know how you can reproduce the desync with 100% success rate.

1. option u see snipe = dodge = sniper player cant do anythink
2. option u get hit by 1 snipe and than dodge = sniper player cant do anythink
no matter what u do its impossible for a good player to die only from snipe

Qbiken

Xologamer wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

The main issue that needs to be addressed is the ability to attack from your spawn location. The spawn should act like the sanctuary zones in Imperial City where you can´t attack, use abilities or be attacked. Unless ZOS adds a feature where I´m able to get up to enemy teams spawn this should be changed.

Xologamer wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

There are few things less fun than having two or three people spamming poison injection on you from different directions. People who actually want to fight can't even go at it because snipe is forcing us to take cover and hide. I'm running from one sniper just to get shot by another. Why even bother to learn to play the game? Why bother learning to block, bash, interrupt, turn and burn? For all that skill, I get to find 6k, 8k, and 10k snipes in my death recap when sometimes I didn't even know I was being hit.

snipe doesnt kill battle grounds snipe kills unexpierenced players (short noo*s)

Yes, I also love getting desynced by 3-4 snipes when only 1 audio queue is heard. And you don´t even need an instance or BG with high latency to get desynced by snipe. If you know how you can reproduce the desync with 100% success rate.

1. option u see snipe = dodge = sniper player cant do anythink
2. option u get hit by 1 snipe and than dodge = sniper player cant do anythink
no matter what u do its impossible for a good player to die only from snipe

Option 3: you think you got hit with 1 snipe when you actually got hit with 4 or 5, but the game doesn´t tell you because you got HP desynced.

Xologamer

Qbiken wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

The main issue that needs to be addressed is the ability to attack from your spawn location. The spawn should act like the sanctuary zones in Imperial City where you can´t attack, use abilities or be attacked. Unless ZOS adds a feature where I´m able to get up to enemy teams spawn this should be changed.

Xologamer wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

There are few things less fun than having two or three people spamming poison injection on you from different directions. People who actually want to fight can't even go at it because snipe is forcing us to take cover and hide. I'm running from one sniper just to get shot by another. Why even bother to learn to play the game? Why bother learning to block, bash, interrupt, turn and burn? For all that skill, I get to find 6k, 8k, and 10k snipes in my death recap when sometimes I didn't even know I was being hit.

snipe doesnt kill battle grounds snipe kills unexpierenced players (short noo*s)

Yes, I also love getting desynced by 3-4 snipes when only 1 audio queue is heard. And you don´t even need an instance or BG with high latency to get desynced by snipe. If you know how you can reproduce the desync with 100% success rate.

1. option u see snipe = dodge = sniper player cant do anythink
2. option u get hit by 1 snipe and than dodge = sniper player cant do anythink
no matter what u do its impossible for a good player to die only from snipe

Option 3: you think you got hit with 1 snipe when you actually got hit with 4 or 5, but the game doesn´t tell you because you got HP desynced.

you can hear the snipe even if health desync

and btw health desync is very rare i had it maybe from 1 in 100 bgs

Gilvoth

snipe is not ruining battlegrounds, i have zero problems from any of the bow and archer skill lines.
what is the problem in all of pvp and all pvp areas (not just battlegrounds) is the ranged High damage output of sorcerers,
and the extreme tank and high damage output builds of necromancers,
and also the overpowering High damage of the two hander.
THAT is what is causing problems, not snipe.

Firstmep

I can count on 1 hand the number of bow users that actually do anything useful in bgs.

Most of the time they just end up feeding horribly.

Bgs are full LOS options, if the enemy has multiple ranged then dont fight in the open, apart from the lava map, you have the option to not engage them in the open.
Ofc if your teammates go full pepega and die to snipers thats another issue.

SpiritofESO

russelmmendoza

StarOfElyon wrote: »

There are few things less fun than having two or three people spamming poison injection on you from different directions. People who actually want to fight can't even go at it because snipe is forcing us to take cover and hide. I'm running from one sniper just to get shot by another. Why even bother to learn to play the game? Why bother learning to block, bash, interrupt, turn and burn? For all that skill, I get to find 6k, 8k, and 10k snipes in my death recap when sometimes I didn't even know I was being hit.

I can barely do 5k dmg on my snipe.
What built do you need to run to do 10k dmg on snipe.

Waffennacht

Stamcro archer uses snipe but I dont ever stealth

Bones, Snipe, (last I checked poison injection was nerved, did it become good again?) Shards for a decent burst without stealth.

Desync tho males Snipe OP

Soris

Stealthy nb sniper is op in low mmr. Though everything is op in low mmr. But you can do like 40-0 without even trying lol.

Seems like break free is bugged tho. Because literally no one is breaking free my snipes from crouch, and so they eat the second snipe+poison injection and drop dead. Is this the desync people are talking about??

MurderMostFoul

Soris wrote: »

Stealthy nb sniper is op in low mmr. Though everything is op in low mmr. But you can do like 40-0 without even trying lol.

Seems like break free is bugged tho. Because literally no one is breaking free my snipes from crouch, and so they eat the second snipe+poison injection and drop dead. Is this the desync people are talking about??

Yes, your target experiences it as an unbreakable stun followed by all of the skills hitting simultaneously.