The difference between healer and a poor man's DPS is getting harder to find

TheGreatBlackBear

I'll keep it simple, playing healer these days feels a lot like playing a low budget DPS. Between managing five dots for zen, or using a nightblade to incap then heavy attacking with a nirnhoned inferno for RO, healers feel a lot like playing a mag DPS that justdoes really low damage. Let be be clear I'm not saying that I want to do nothing but spam springs and orbs during trials, but the fact that playing a healer and playing a DPS feels so similar is beginning to be a turn-off.

Taleof2Cities

It’s a lot different in PvP, @TheGreatBlackBear ... where support characters and dedicated healers are both in demand.

Plus, there’s a lot more flexibility in builds.

You may not like PvP, but just sayin’ ...

radiostar

If I'm on my healer and they ask can you do more dps I just say not really and offer to leave so they can get a new REAL dps. Saves a lot of stress and time.

amm7sb14_ESO

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I'll keep it simple, playing healer these days feels a lot like playing a low budget DPS. Between managing five dots for zen, or using a nightblade to incap then heavy attacking with a nirnhoned inferno for RO, healers feel a lot like playing a mag DPS that justdoes really low damage. Let be be clear I'm not saying that I want to do nothing but spam springs and orbs during trials, but the fact that playing a healer and playing a DPS feels so similar is beginning to be a turn-off.

This game is centered around DD's and it is frustrating.

DD's are in a race with each other to crank out the highest possible dps and just want to burn.

Healers are seen as a liability because that is a spot that can be filled by more DD's

Tanks are used to throw on damage sets that the DD's don't want to wear, and tanks keeping themselves or their group alive is seen as "selfish"

It's absolutely ridiculous and kinda disrespectful to those of us that enjoy playing support roles.

TheGreatBlackBear

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I'll keep it simple, playing healer these days feels a lot like playing a low budget DPS. Between managing five dots for zen, or using a nightblade to incap then heavy attacking with a nirnhoned inferno for RO, healers feel a lot like playing a mag DPS that justdoes really low damage. Let be be clear I'm not saying that I want to do nothing but spam springs and orbs during trials, but the fact that playing a healer and playing a DPS feels so similar is beginning to be a turn-off.

This game is centered around DD's and it is frustrating.

DD's are in a race with each other to crank out the highest possible dps and just want to burn.

Healers are seen as a liability because that is a spot that can be filled by more DD's

Tanks are used to throw on damage sets that the DD's don't want to wear, and tanks keeping themselves or their group alive is seen as "selfish"

It's absolutely ridiculous and kinda disrespectful to those of us that enjoy playing support roles.

On principal I have have no problem with helping raise dps. Healers are a support role and in ESO support means "make everyone hit harder for longer" it's whatever. What I take issue with is healers having to wear sets made for magicka DPS and change their gameplay pattern to that of a magicka dps in order to provide this utility.

kargen27

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I'll keep it simple, playing healer these days feels a lot like playing a low budget DPS. Between managing five dots for zen, or using a nightblade to incap then heavy attacking with a nirnhoned inferno for RO, healers feel a lot like playing a mag DPS that justdoes really low damage. Let be be clear I'm not saying that I want to do nothing but spam springs and orbs during trials, but the fact that playing a healer and playing a DPS feels so similar is beginning to be a turn-off.

This game is centered around DD's and it is frustrating.

DD's are in a race with each other to crank out the highest possible dps and just want to burn.

Healers are seen as a liability because that is a spot that can be filled by more DD's

Tanks are used to throw on damage sets that the DD's don't want to wear, and tanks keeping themselves or their group alive is seen as "selfish"

It's absolutely ridiculous and kinda disrespectful to those of us that enjoy playing support roles.

A friend preferred doing four man vet content with 3 DPS one tank. One night they couldn't find a third DPS so I offered to join on my healer. After we were done my friend admitted the run went a lot smoother and quicker with a healer. They could go full DPS with no worry about self heals and all that fun stuff. After that I got invited to a lot more groups.

Tsar_Gekkou

Hopefully the nerf to RO kills it, but MK/Zens is leaving DK dps and going back onto healers.

Grandchamp1989

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I'll keep it simple, playing healer these days feels a lot like playing a low budget DPS. Between managing five dots for zen, or using a nightblade to incap then heavy attacking with a nirnhoned inferno for RO, healers feel a lot like playing a mag DPS that justdoes really low damage. Let be be clear I'm not saying that I want to do nothing but spam springs and orbs during trials, but the fact that playing a healer and playing a DPS feels so similar is beginning to be a turn-off.

I agree with you OP.

Take your healer to Dungeon's and you might aswell go convert him to a full on DD with "orbs" attached lol.

Zos has no idea what to do with healers IMO. They're at a horrible place the way I see it. They're DD "Light".

Jeremy

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I'll keep it simple, playing healer these days feels a lot like playing a low budget DPS. Between managing five dots for zen, or using a nightblade to incap then heavy attacking with a nirnhoned inferno for RO, healers feel a lot like playing a mag DPS that justdoes really low damage. Let be be clear I'm not saying that I want to do nothing but spam springs and orbs during trials, but the fact that playing a healer and playing a DPS feels so similar is beginning to be a turn-off.

Just a heads up, but when you put in symbols to spell out profanity they will censor you for it. I tired it once with the @ symbol and my post got deleted because of it. So you may want to change it before your thread gets killed over something silly.

TheGreatBlackBear

Jeremy wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I'll keep it simple, playing healer these days feels a lot like playing a low budget DPS. Between managing five dots for zen, or using a nightblade to incap then heavy attacking with a nirnhoned inferno for RO, healers feel a lot like playing a mag DPS that justdoes really low damage. Let be be clear I'm not saying that I want to do nothing but spam springs and orbs during trials, but the fact that playing a healer and playing a DPS feels so similar is beginning to be a turn-off.

Just a heads up, but when you put in symbols to spell out profanity they will censor you for it. I tired it once with the @ symbol and my post got deleted because of it. So you may want to change it before your thread gets killed over something silly.

Lol fair enough. I'll change it but I don't think the new title quite conveys the type of DPS I'm talking about.

Fur_like_snow

Lol go into PvP as a support where if you’re actually good at your role it often means the difference between winning and losing.

In PvE what’s a healer suppose to heal when anything but a tank can get one shot by mechanics or heavies? Maybe if I put thrassians on and stand in red it’ll get a bit spicy..

Aznarb

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I'll keep it simple, playing healer these days feels a lot like playing a low budget DPS. Between managing five dots for zen, or using a nightblade to incap then heavy attacking with a nirnhoned inferno for RO, healers feel a lot like playing a mag DPS that justdoes really low damage. Let be be clear I'm not saying that I want to do nothing but spam springs and orbs during trials, but the fact that playing a healer and playing a DPS feels so similar is beginning to be a turn-off.

100% agree, as healer, I mean REAL healer, not "eso healer" who was used to have an important impact on the team ability to live and perform, here, in ESO, it's just feel horrible and boring.
Their is close to no danger who really need us. Most DPS can heal themself. I mean, look, 90%+ of 4 man content is doable with 3 DD + 1T or 4DD, that just so dumb to me.

And healer have to play more and more like a braindead buff bot or DPs supbar.
For good old healer player like me it's just not fun. I didn't play healer to be a DPS slave, cuz yeah, that how it feel currently.
I've stop doing vTrial HM cuz I just go bored by this. The more you're good (the whole team I mean) the less you need to heal.

And that 100% ZoS fault where the difficulty design is just a big failure where the only thing you need is DPS more and more.
We've a lot of cool defensive set to help the team to stay alive or mitigate damage as healer and tank, they even rework some who look very good like Sawl Prayer, but we NEVER use them because their is no content in this game that put any pressure on health bar that can be managed with 2 braindead HoT.

I don't know to express how bad I feel since I've become a good player. Outside of HM trial (where you're pretty mluch a buff bot) you just feel totally useless. It's like you being punished for being good and the only way to feel like a healer is to play with bad player, I mean, WTF ?
Sur I can run with friend and be picked as healer, but what the point ? They don't need heal and would be better with a 3rd DD. And that even more true since now most magika DD use orb so they don't even need use for sustain.

GG ZoS, good design.

Edit :

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Lol go into PvP as a support where if you’re actually good at your role it often means the difference between winning and losing.

In PvE what’s a healer suppose to heal when anything but a tank can get one shot by mechanics or heavies? Maybe if I put thrassians on and stand in red it’ll get a bit spicy..

TBH If Cyro wasn't that laggy and buggy I would have jump in since a while. The better you get as healer in PvE the less you feel useful...

FrancisCrawford

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I'll keep it simple, playing healer these days feels a lot like playing a low budget DPS. Between managing five dots for zen, or using a nightblade to incap then heavy attacking with a nirnhoned inferno for RO, healers feel a lot like playing a mag DPS that justdoes really low damage. Let be be clear I'm not saying that I want to do nothing but spam springs and orbs during trials, but the fact that playing a healer and playing a DPS feels so similar is beginning to be a turn-off.

It's always been that way in dungeons, and I'm fine with it. I have a DPS bar and a healing bar, and the DPS bar feels like my front one.

Emergency healing is rare; most of one's time is spent doing something else. And between DPS and buffing/HoTTing/debuffing, I find DPS more fun.

Aznarb

kargen27 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I'll keep it simple, playing healer these days feels a lot like playing a low budget DPS. Between managing five dots for zen, or using a nightblade to incap then heavy attacking with a nirnhoned inferno for RO, healers feel a lot like playing a mag DPS that justdoes really low damage. Let be be clear I'm not saying that I want to do nothing but spam springs and orbs during trials, but the fact that playing a healer and playing a DPS feels so similar is beginning to be a turn-off.

This game is centered around DD's and it is frustrating.

DD's are in a race with each other to crank out the highest possible dps and just want to burn.

Healers are seen as a liability because that is a spot that can be filled by more DD's

Tanks are used to throw on damage sets that the DD's don't want to wear, and tanks keeping themselves or their group alive is seen as "selfish"

It's absolutely ridiculous and kinda disrespectful to those of us that enjoy playing support roles.

A friend preferred doing four man vet content with 3 DPS one tank. One night they couldn't find a third DPS so I offered to join on my healer. After we were done my friend admitted the run went a lot smoother and quicker with a healer. They could go full DPS with no worry about self heals and all that fun stuff. After that I got invited to a lot more groups.

No offense to your friend or even you.
But if they are better with a healer that just mean they'r not as good as they think.
Many DPS can parse a lot in trial but struggle in DG where you've to move way more often.
When people are really good like some of my friend, they while run the triple success HM-Speed-no death way easier in 3 DD set-up because everything is gonna get melt in second.
Let them time to improve more, and you'll remember what I said.

kargen27

Aznarb wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I'll keep it simple, playing healer these days feels a lot like playing a low budget DPS. Between managing five dots for zen, or using a nightblade to incap then heavy attacking with a nirnhoned inferno for RO, healers feel a lot like playing a mag DPS that justdoes really low damage. Let be be clear I'm not saying that I want to do nothing but spam springs and orbs during trials, but the fact that playing a healer and playing a DPS feels so similar is beginning to be a turn-off.

This game is centered around DD's and it is frustrating.

DD's are in a race with each other to crank out the highest possible dps and just want to burn.

Healers are seen as a liability because that is a spot that can be filled by more DD's

Tanks are used to throw on damage sets that the DD's don't want to wear, and tanks keeping themselves or their group alive is seen as "selfish"

It's absolutely ridiculous and kinda disrespectful to those of us that enjoy playing support roles.

A friend preferred doing four man vet content with 3 DPS one tank. One night they couldn't find a third DPS so I offered to join on my healer. After we were done my friend admitted the run went a lot smoother and quicker with a healer. They could go full DPS with no worry about self heals and all that fun stuff. After that I got invited to a lot more groups.

No offense to your friend or even you.
But if they are better with a healer that just mean they'r not as good as they think.
Many DPS can parse a lot in trial but struggle in DG where you've to move way more often.
When people are really good like some of my friend, they while run the triple success HM-Speed-no death way easier in 3 DD set-up because everything is gonna get melt in second.
Let them time to improve more, and you'll remember what I said.

We had managed all the four man content on hard mode so good enough. Not elite by any means but neither are the majority of players. I think a lot of players see what the elite are doing and assume they should go the same route. They manage to finish the content using three DPS and they assume it would be slower with a healer.

You are correct that there are players that have no need at all for a healer. I've played with a few. They are a bit rare though.

Aznarb

kargen27 wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I'll keep it simple, playing healer these days feels a lot like playing a low budget DPS. Between managing five dots for zen, or using a nightblade to incap then heavy attacking with a nirnhoned inferno for RO, healers feel a lot like playing a mag DPS that justdoes really low damage. Let be be clear I'm not saying that I want to do nothing but spam springs and orbs during trials, but the fact that playing a healer and playing a DPS feels so similar is beginning to be a turn-off.

This game is centered around DD's and it is frustrating.

DD's are in a race with each other to crank out the highest possible dps and just want to burn.

Healers are seen as a liability because that is a spot that can be filled by more DD's

Tanks are used to throw on damage sets that the DD's don't want to wear, and tanks keeping themselves or their group alive is seen as "selfish"

It's absolutely ridiculous and kinda disrespectful to those of us that enjoy playing support roles.

A friend preferred doing four man vet content with 3 DPS one tank. One night they couldn't find a third DPS so I offered to join on my healer. After we were done my friend admitted the run went a lot smoother and quicker with a healer. They could go full DPS with no worry about self heals and all that fun stuff. After that I got invited to a lot more groups.

No offense to your friend or even you.
But if they are better with a healer that just mean they'r not as good as they think.
Many DPS can parse a lot in trial but struggle in DG where you've to move way more often.
When people are really good like some of my friend, they while run the triple success HM-Speed-no death way easier in 3 DD set-up because everything is gonna get melt in second.
Let them time to improve more, and you'll remember what I said.

We had managed all the four man content on hard mode so good enough. Not elite by any means but neither are the majority of players. I think a lot of players see what the elite are doing and assume they should go the same route. They manage to finish the content using three DPS and they assume it would be slower with a healer.

You are correct that there are players that have no need at all for a healer. I've played with a few. They are a bit rare though.

Sur, I by no mean said these player are the majority. Just that in fact, when you become good enough to clean everything with no effort, healer become pointless most of the time. I've myself with these friends do all the DLC success with 1T + 1H + 2DD, but now.. It's way faster with 3 DD tbh.

Also just to be sur, I don't said you and your friend wasn't good enough or whatever that sound bad, just that their is a higher level of player beyond. We had this step too, and you'll soon be in this case too from what you said you complet.
I know my English is limited, so I hope you get the point, didn't want to be mean towards you and your friends !

kargen27

Aznarb wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I'll keep it simple, playing healer these days feels a lot like playing a low budget DPS. Between managing five dots for zen, or using a nightblade to incap then heavy attacking with a nirnhoned inferno for RO, healers feel a lot like playing a mag DPS that justdoes really low damage. Let be be clear I'm not saying that I want to do nothing but spam springs and orbs during trials, but the fact that playing a healer and playing a DPS feels so similar is beginning to be a turn-off.

This game is centered around DD's and it is frustrating.

DD's are in a race with each other to crank out the highest possible dps and just want to burn.

Healers are seen as a liability because that is a spot that can be filled by more DD's

Tanks are used to throw on damage sets that the DD's don't want to wear, and tanks keeping themselves or their group alive is seen as "selfish"

It's absolutely ridiculous and kinda disrespectful to those of us that enjoy playing support roles.

A friend preferred doing four man vet content with 3 DPS one tank. One night they couldn't find a third DPS so I offered to join on my healer. After we were done my friend admitted the run went a lot smoother and quicker with a healer. They could go full DPS with no worry about self heals and all that fun stuff. After that I got invited to a lot more groups.

No offense to your friend or even you.
But if they are better with a healer that just mean they'r not as good as they think.
Many DPS can parse a lot in trial but struggle in DG where you've to move way more often.
When people are really good like some of my friend, they while run the triple success HM-Speed-no death way easier in 3 DD set-up because everything is gonna get melt in second.
Let them time to improve more, and you'll remember what I said.

We had managed all the four man content on hard mode so good enough. Not elite by any means but neither are the majority of players. I think a lot of players see what the elite are doing and assume they should go the same route. They manage to finish the content using three DPS and they assume it would be slower with a healer.

You are correct that there are players that have no need at all for a healer. I've played with a few. They are a bit rare though.

Sur, I by no mean said these player are the majority. Just that in fact, when you become good enough to clean everything with no effort, healer become pointless most of the time. I've myself with these friends do all the DLC success with 1T + 1H + 2DD, but now.. It's way faster with 3 DD tbh.

Also just to be sur, I don't said you and your friend wasn't good enough or whatever that sound bad, just that their is a higher level of player beyond. We had this step too, and you'll soon be in this case too from what you said you complet.
I know my English is limited, so I hope you get the point, didn't want to be mean towards you and your friends !

I understood what you meant and didn't take it as bad. I wanted to point out for the majority of players they will benefit from a healer. Others in this thread made it seem there was no point to healing at all. I wanted to express my opinion that for many healing is still needed.
The problem with healing is when you get to that elite level as a healer you do get kind of stuck in a rut. DPS can always work on more damage. With healing any increase is over healing and not beneficial to the group. When I start feeling like my healing is in a rut I join a PuG doing a random and it can be fun trying to keep a really bad group alive a few times.

newtinmpls

kargen27 wrote: »

The problem with healing is when you get to that elite level as a healer you do get kind of stuck in a rut. DPS can always work on more damage. With healing any increase is over healing and not beneficial to the group.

This is where I go not just for healing, but for say... Spell Power Cure (so excess heals turns into excess damage on the part of the DPS) or shielding, so that instead of trying to keep folks alive that do for minimum (and not very sustainable) health, I can make their effective health a lot higher.

Aznarb

kargen27 wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I'll keep it simple, playing healer these days feels a lot like playing a low budget DPS. Between managing five dots for zen, or using a nightblade to incap then heavy attacking with a nirnhoned inferno for RO, healers feel a lot like playing a mag DPS that justdoes really low damage. Let be be clear I'm not saying that I want to do nothing but spam springs and orbs during trials, but the fact that playing a healer and playing a DPS feels so similar is beginning to be a turn-off.

This game is centered around DD's and it is frustrating.

DD's are in a race with each other to crank out the highest possible dps and just want to burn.

Healers are seen as a liability because that is a spot that can be filled by more DD's

Tanks are used to throw on damage sets that the DD's don't want to wear, and tanks keeping themselves or their group alive is seen as "selfish"

It's absolutely ridiculous and kinda disrespectful to those of us that enjoy playing support roles.

A friend preferred doing four man vet content with 3 DPS one tank. One night they couldn't find a third DPS so I offered to join on my healer. After we were done my friend admitted the run went a lot smoother and quicker with a healer. They could go full DPS with no worry about self heals and all that fun stuff. After that I got invited to a lot more groups.

No offense to your friend or even you.
But if they are better with a healer that just mean they'r not as good as they think.
Many DPS can parse a lot in trial but struggle in DG where you've to move way more often.
When people are really good like some of my friend, they while run the triple success HM-Speed-no death way easier in 3 DD set-up because everything is gonna get melt in second.
Let them time to improve more, and you'll remember what I said.

We had managed all the four man content on hard mode so good enough. Not elite by any means but neither are the majority of players. I think a lot of players see what the elite are doing and assume they should go the same route. They manage to finish the content using three DPS and they assume it would be slower with a healer.

You are correct that there are players that have no need at all for a healer. I've played with a few. They are a bit rare though.

Sur, I by no mean said these player are the majority. Just that in fact, when you become good enough to clean everything with no effort, healer become pointless most of the time. I've myself with these friends do all the DLC success with 1T + 1H + 2DD, but now.. It's way faster with 3 DD tbh.

Also just to be sur, I don't said you and your friend wasn't good enough or whatever that sound bad, just that their is a higher level of player beyond. We had this step too, and you'll soon be in this case too from what you said you complet.
I know my English is limited, so I hope you get the point, didn't want to be mean towards you and your friends !

I understood what you meant and didn't take it as bad. I wanted to point out for the majority of players they will benefit from a healer. Others in this thread made it seem there was no point to healing at all. I wanted to express my opinion that for many healing is still needed.
The problem with healing is when you get to that elite level as a healer you do get kind of stuck in a rut. DPS can always work on more damage. With healing any increase is over healing and not beneficial to the group. When I start feeling like my healing is in a rut I join a PuG doing a random and it can be fun trying to keep a really bad group alive a few times.

Yup that was my point. Healer are good for progressing group.
Once these groupe become very good, you just feel useless and it's incredibly frustrating to have be that far and not be relevant anymore outside of vTrial.

zvavi

Aznarb wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I'll keep it simple, playing healer these days feels a lot like playing a low budget DPS. Between managing five dots for zen, or using a nightblade to incap then heavy attacking with a nirnhoned inferno for RO, healers feel a lot like playing a mag DPS that justdoes really low damage. Let be be clear I'm not saying that I want to do nothing but spam springs and orbs during trials, but the fact that playing a healer and playing a DPS feels so similar is beginning to be a turn-off.

This game is centered around DD's and it is frustrating.

DD's are in a race with each other to crank out the highest possible dps and just want to burn.

Healers are seen as a liability because that is a spot that can be filled by more DD's

Tanks are used to throw on damage sets that the DD's don't want to wear, and tanks keeping themselves or their group alive is seen as "selfish"

It's absolutely ridiculous and kinda disrespectful to those of us that enjoy playing support roles.

A friend preferred doing four man vet content with 3 DPS one tank. One night they couldn't find a third DPS so I offered to join on my healer. After we were done my friend admitted the run went a lot smoother and quicker with a healer. They could go full DPS with no worry about self heals and all that fun stuff. After that I got invited to a lot more groups.

No offense to your friend or even you.
But if they are better with a healer that just mean they'r not as good as they think.
Many DPS can parse a lot in trial but struggle in DG where you've to move way more often.
When people are really good like some of my friend, they while run the triple success HM-Speed-no death way easier in 3 DD set-up because everything is gonna get melt in second.
Let them time to improve more, and you'll remember what I said.

We had managed all the four man content on hard mode so good enough. Not elite by any means but neither are the majority of players. I think a lot of players see what the elite are doing and assume they should go the same route. They manage to finish the content using three DPS and they assume it would be slower with a healer.

You are correct that there are players that have no need at all for a healer. I've played with a few. They are a bit rare though.

Sur, I by no mean said these player are the majority. Just that in fact, when you become good enough to clean everything with no effort, healer become pointless most of the time. I've myself with these friends do all the DLC success with 1T + 1H + 2DD, but now.. It's way faster with 3 DD tbh.

Also just to be sur, I don't said you and your friend wasn't good enough or whatever that sound bad, just that their is a higher level of player beyond. We had this step too, and you'll soon be in this case too from what you said you complet.
I know my English is limited, so I hope you get the point, didn't want to be mean towards you and your friends !

I understood what you meant and didn't take it as bad. I wanted to point out for the majority of players they will benefit from a healer. Others in this thread made it seem there was no point to healing at all. I wanted to express my opinion that for many healing is still needed.
The problem with healing is when you get to that elite level as a healer you do get kind of stuck in a rut. DPS can always work on more damage. With healing any increase is over healing and not beneficial to the group. When I start feeling like my healing is in a rut I join a PuG doing a random and it can be fun trying to keep a really bad group alive a few times.

Yup that was my point. Healer are good for progressing group.
Once these groupe become very good, you just feel useless and it's incredibly frustrating to have be that far and not be relevant anymore outside of vTrial.

Frustrating indeed.

FrancisCrawford

When you get to that point, what's wrong with converting to a pure or almost pure DPS build?

Aznarb wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I'll keep it simple, playing healer these days feels a lot like playing a low budget DPS. Between managing five dots for zen, or using a nightblade to incap then heavy attacking with a nirnhoned inferno for RO, healers feel a lot like playing a mag DPS that justdoes really low damage. Let be be clear I'm not saying that I want to do nothing but spam springs and orbs during trials, but the fact that playing a healer and playing a DPS feels so similar is beginning to be a turn-off.

This game is centered around DD's and it is frustrating.

DD's are in a race with each other to crank out the highest possible dps and just want to burn.

Healers are seen as a liability because that is a spot that can be filled by more DD's

Tanks are used to throw on damage sets that the DD's don't want to wear, and tanks keeping themselves or their group alive is seen as "selfish"

It's absolutely ridiculous and kinda disrespectful to those of us that enjoy playing support roles.

A friend preferred doing four man vet content with 3 DPS one tank. One night they couldn't find a third DPS so I offered to join on my healer. After we were done my friend admitted the run went a lot smoother and quicker with a healer. They could go full DPS with no worry about self heals and all that fun stuff. After that I got invited to a lot more groups.

No offense to your friend or even you.
But if they are better with a healer that just mean they'r not as good as they think.
Many DPS can parse a lot in trial but struggle in DG where you've to move way more often.
When people are really good like some of my friend, they while run the triple success HM-Speed-no death way easier in 3 DD set-up because everything is gonna get melt in second.
Let them time to improve more, and you'll remember what I said.

We had managed all the four man content on hard mode so good enough. Not elite by any means but neither are the majority of players. I think a lot of players see what the elite are doing and assume they should go the same route. They manage to finish the content using three DPS and they assume it would be slower with a healer.

You are correct that there are players that have no need at all for a healer. I've played with a few. They are a bit rare though.

Sur, I by no mean said these player are the majority. Just that in fact, when you become good enough to clean everything with no effort, healer become pointless most of the time. I've myself with these friends do all the DLC success with 1T + 1H + 2DD, but now.. It's way faster with 3 DD tbh.

Also just to be sur, I don't said you and your friend wasn't good enough or whatever that sound bad, just that their is a higher level of player beyond. We had this step too, and you'll soon be in this case too from what you said you complet.
I know my English is limited, so I hope you get the point, didn't want to be mean towards you and your friends !

I understood what you meant and didn't take it as bad. I wanted to point out for the majority of players they will benefit from a healer. Others in this thread made it seem there was no point to healing at all. I wanted to express my opinion that for many healing is still needed.
The problem with healing is when you get to that elite level as a healer you do get kind of stuck in a rut. DPS can always work on more damage. With healing any increase is over healing and not beneficial to the group. When I start feeling like my healing is in a rut I join a PuG doing a random and it can be fun trying to keep a really bad group alive a few times.

Yup that was my point. Healer are good for progressing group.
Once these groupe become very good, you just feel useless and it's incredibly frustrating to have be that far and not be relevant anymore outside of vTrial.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Easy solution: Just apply battle spirit to pve aswell (or at least apply it to vet content if normal would get to hard for some players otherwise). I'm sure with 60% less healing and shields the demand for true healers will rise quite a bit.

Aznarb

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

When you get to that point, what's wrong with converting to a pure or almost pure DPS build?

Aznarb wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I'll keep it simple, playing healer these days feels a lot like playing a low budget DPS. Between managing five dots for zen, or using a nightblade to incap then heavy attacking with a nirnhoned inferno for RO, healers feel a lot like playing a mag DPS that justdoes really low damage. Let be be clear I'm not saying that I want to do nothing but spam springs and orbs during trials, but the fact that playing a healer and playing a DPS feels so similar is beginning to be a turn-off.

This game is centered around DD's and it is frustrating.

DD's are in a race with each other to crank out the highest possible dps and just want to burn.

Healers are seen as a liability because that is a spot that can be filled by more DD's

Tanks are used to throw on damage sets that the DD's don't want to wear, and tanks keeping themselves or their group alive is seen as "selfish"

It's absolutely ridiculous and kinda disrespectful to those of us that enjoy playing support roles.

A friend preferred doing four man vet content with 3 DPS one tank. One night they couldn't find a third DPS so I offered to join on my healer. After we were done my friend admitted the run went a lot smoother and quicker with a healer. They could go full DPS with no worry about self heals and all that fun stuff. After that I got invited to a lot more groups.

No offense to your friend or even you.
But if they are better with a healer that just mean they'r not as good as they think.
Many DPS can parse a lot in trial but struggle in DG where you've to move way more often.
When people are really good like some of my friend, they while run the triple success HM-Speed-no death way easier in 3 DD set-up because everything is gonna get melt in second.
Let them time to improve more, and you'll remember what I said.

We had managed all the four man content on hard mode so good enough. Not elite by any means but neither are the majority of players. I think a lot of players see what the elite are doing and assume they should go the same route. They manage to finish the content using three DPS and they assume it would be slower with a healer.

You are correct that there are players that have no need at all for a healer. I've played with a few. They are a bit rare though.

Sur, I by no mean said these player are the majority. Just that in fact, when you become good enough to clean everything with no effort, healer become pointless most of the time. I've myself with these friends do all the DLC success with 1T + 1H + 2DD, but now.. It's way faster with 3 DD tbh.

Also just to be sur, I don't said you and your friend wasn't good enough or whatever that sound bad, just that their is a higher level of player beyond. We had this step too, and you'll soon be in this case too from what you said you complet.
I know my English is limited, so I hope you get the point, didn't want to be mean towards you and your friends !

I understood what you meant and didn't take it as bad. I wanted to point out for the majority of players they will benefit from a healer. Others in this thread made it seem there was no point to healing at all. I wanted to express my opinion that for many healing is still needed.
The problem with healing is when you get to that elite level as a healer you do get kind of stuck in a rut. DPS can always work on more damage. With healing any increase is over healing and not beneficial to the group. When I start feeling like my healing is in a rut I join a PuG doing a random and it can be fun trying to keep a really bad group alive a few times.

Yup that was my point. Healer are good for progressing group.
Once these groupe become very good, you just feel useless and it's incredibly frustrating to have be that far and not be relevant anymore outside of vTrial.

That not what I like playing ?
I'm a healer at heart, always have been since I've try it for the 1st time in my 1st mmorpg.
I didn't enjoy DPS. I've made some Tank, still more enjoyable to me than DD but not than healer.
Becoming good as healer is not rewarding (that how I feel it).

Edit : Just to be clear, I've play hybrid and even full DDs, I've try it, I didn't say I don't like w/o trying it. That just not the play-style/role I enjoy in a MMORPG.

Zodiarkslayer

So.... I wholeheartedly agree!
Playing a healer is really feeling like you cant substantially contribute to group performance.
When you feel you have really outdone yourself and threw many heals and buffs to your teammates, all are like: meh!
But when they die you get the heat and the blame. But noone ever looks at themselves for failure....
It's so frustrating.

FrancisCrawford

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

So.... I wholeheartedly agree!
Playing a healer is really feeling like you cant substantially contribute to group performance.
When you feel you have really outdone yourself and threw many heals and buffs to your teammates, all are like: meh!
But when they die you get the heat and the blame. But noone ever looks at themselves for failure....
It's so frustrating.

In what game is it different.

In LOTRO, where I healed, either the teammates died or they didn't. If you did your job well, they didn't, even when they stood in the wrong place for a while.

In Guild Wars, the healers felt so underappreciated that they had a rather hilarious sit-in and strike.

But also in Guild Wars, which was my first sort-of-MMO, I realized something. Guild Wars instanced all its content, scaled it so that you really would want to group, and provided NPCs so that you didn't HAVE to find other human players. The only NPCs that were as good as or better than human players were the healers, because they job was so simple.

I'm glad ESO makes the healer's role more interesting than pure heal spam.

LioraValkyrie

I was discussing this with a friend yesterday, and suggested that the higher end dungeons should have mechanics where the group takes unavoidable AoE damage, to the effect of 10-12k dtps for extended periods of time... think vSCPhm ice statue phase, but for the whole fight, not ramping up to a 1-shot, but remaining constantly brutal such that without a good healer specced for hps, not just buffing, the dps would not be able to do anything but shield spam until they ran out of resources and died like dogs.

I mean, what if this was the 'nightmare mode' people have occasionally suggested over the years? vFL 'n' mode with 12k oblivion damage per second on everybody throughout the ghost wall phases, holy ****! But you would need an amazing healer, and to move as a team with them, and nobody would ever fail to appreciate them again.

My friend then suggested that the number of healers in the game able to keep a group alive through this kind of sadistic hellscape (I am lucky enough to be married to one of them) would be so low that people would cry until 'nightmare mode' got removed from the game.

He's probably right, but I'll keep dreaming.

LuxLunae

I am loving this post. My post I will admit was stupid and didn’t say exactly what I wanted it to. You guys are doing it. The post I made was suppose to simply say “ can we have more mechanics in this game other than DPS reliability.” It became a post to simply bash me and my skills in the game so I bailed on it. DDers see their damage numbers in line with their egos. So I ignore the usual “git good” comments from them. ZoS rewards their dps, so why would they not be proud?

mairwen85

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

So.... I wholeheartedly agree!
Playing a healer is really feeling like you cant substantially contribute to group performance.
When you feel you have really outdone yourself and threw many heals and buffs to your teammates, all are like: meh!
But when they die you get the heat and the blame. But noone ever looks at themselves for failure....
It's so frustrating.

Really? Hmmm... When you spec your healer such that by providing heals and sustain aid, and relevant buffs, you can be boosting group dps by ~20%, that plus passive, proactive heals and debuffs is enough for any group to do what they do comfortably. Do it right, and people notice (I mean, healing is not just keeping health bars full; health is a resource, players have 3 resources; a good healer tries to 'heal' all of them ). I play dps in 3DD groups regularly and I am still often invited (requested) to heal by the same people--it depends on what they're going for. I'll admit, no one I play with is particularly 'elite' or considers themselves to be. Some runs we will go sans-healer, other times we go full triad, but either way, we play to what we feel is most efficient for the content we are doing, and what will be the easiest at that point in time.

LuxLunae wrote: »

The post I made was suppose to simply say “ can we have more mechanics in this game other than DPS

Many times I read these types of thread (I even made one myself once) and I wonder just what it is that people want. I'd love a dungeon to be designed specifically around healing (similar to how MoS and MHK are more tank oriented), one that drains/saps resources and applies various wounding or debuff mechs to players... but when we look at dungeons that have elements of this already, and how annoying they are, and the gimmicks that ZOS introduce every new dungeon dlc, I wonder just how realistic an expectation that is. At the end of the day healers do have a relevant role, and in many cases they can contribute (and do so greatly) to group performance, but not every player or group needs one--forcing it via content mechanics will not result in what we hope it will.

Luke_Flamesword

I tkink that they should make less frustrating one-shot mechanics and more burst damage - that gives more job for healers and is less punishing and annoying than 1-second mistakes making total wipeout.

mairwen85

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

I tkink that they should make less frustrating one-shot mechanics and more burst damage - that gives more job for healers and is less punishing and annoying than 1-second mistakes making total wipeout.

"Healers can't heal one-shots" is a valid point, but they can keep damage buffed and resources high and provide passive protection enough to help dps and tanks prevent one-shots either by burn or co-ordinated mechanics. Many one-shots can be avoided in an organised group, so the question really is whether healers should be able to. It would be nice for everyone if current one-shot mechs weren't x amount of damage done, but % of player total health, so that there is room for recovery, I'm not disputing that, but at the same time, those mechs are in place as artificial difficulty--it's intentionally frustrating by design and demands group cohesion. There's argument for both, and in recent dungeon DLC, ZOS hasn't constantly gone for one-shots either which is a nice change... I agree though that their current design model could be more creative in how these are used.

Astrid

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I'll keep it simple, playing healer these days feels a lot like playing a low budget DPS. Between managing five dots for zen, or using a nightblade to incap then heavy attacking with a nirnhoned inferno for RO, healers feel a lot like playing a mag DPS that justdoes really low damage. Let be be clear I'm not saying that I want to do nothing but spam springs and orbs during trials, but the fact that playing a healer and playing a DPS feels so similar is beginning to be a turn-off.

I agree to an extent. Hence in raids you have your buff healer who is basically your “poor dps” and your group healer who actually does the healies. If you don’t like being the buff boi then maybe sign up to be group? I know a lot of people who prefer being the actual healer whereas I prefer being the buff. In dungeons and stuff do whatever you want personally. 😌