Magicka sorc DPS help?

E-Zekiel

Hello, I'm trying to figure out if I'm doing something wrong on my magicka sorc for DPS. I play him as a lightning-centric and I run two lightning staves. He's in full purple quality 160 gear, all magicka enchants for every slot. Every trait for armor is divines and jewelry traits are all magicka recovery. My boon is The Thief.

I only have two active sets as I'm still working on a third. I was working on Crafty Alfiq but someone suggested I do Mother's Sorrow. My two active sets are Auroran (5 pieces) and Stormfist (2 pieces), and part of crafty alfiq (two pieces, still working on my third set in general).

I have 54 in magicka and 10 in health for attributes.

My max magicka (with tri stat food) is 34230. My spell damage is 1604. My spell crit is 39.1 on my front bar (lightning staff w/decisive) and 45.1 on my back bar (lightning staff w/ precise). My front bar weapon enchant is absorb magicka, back bar is charged (shock damage).

I have all class passives and weapon (destruction) passives and all light armor passives.

My front bar is:
Force Pulse https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/force-pulse
Crystal Fragments (only use when proc'd) https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/crystal-fragments
Unstable Wall (of storms) https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/unstable-wall-of-elements
Mage's Wrath (execute, only use when health <20%) https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/mages-wrath
Liquid Lightning https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/liquid-lightning

Elemental (Thunderous) Rage: https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/elemental-rage (thunder increases duration)
I sometimes substitute Charged Atronach for this one. https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/summon-charged-atronach

Back bar is (for fights I don't need shields, and trash):
Haunting Curse https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/haunting-curse
Critical Surge https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/critical-surge
Dark Conversion https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/dark-conversion
Inevitable Detonation https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/inevitable-detonation (I remove this for something else on nearly every boss fight unless it's a boss fight with lots of adds like the orb boss in Depths of Malatar vet)
Pulsar (storm, AE spammable) https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/pulsar

Shooting Star https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/shooting-star

Back bar for difficult boss fights where shields are advisable:

Haunting Curse https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/haunting-curse
Critical Surge https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/critical-surge
Dark Conversion https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/dark-conversion
Harness Magicka https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/harness-magicka
Hardened Ward https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/hardened-ward

Shooting Star https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/shooting-star

I should note that I also like to PVP so I'm not *super* into changing to morphs that offer a slight gain in PVE but are otherwise bad (IMO) in PVP - an example is I don't wanna trade unstable wall for elemental blockade because the nuke at the end of unstable is (IMO) better than a bigger range and longer duration.

I want to keep the lightning theme as much as possible overall (which is one of the reasons for the sets I chose) but I'm keeping an open mind. I don't mind using pets because they do lightning stuff, but it bothers me that I have to maintain them on both bars. I also did a test on a dummy (replacing #4 and #5 on both bars) with pets and found that my DPS actually didn't go up - it was identical.

I have 603 CP. My damage-related CP is as follows:
Arcanist 100 (15% magicka recovery)
Tenacity 3 (adds to heavy stamina/magicka restore, WIP)
Elfborn 56 (20.15% critical damage/healing)
Elemental Expert (12.2% elemental damage)
Spell erosion 7 (713 spell penetration, WIP)
Staff Expert 25 (15.38% light/heavy damage, WIP)
Master-at-Arms 56 (20.15% damage with direct damage attacks)


I don't *THINK* I missed anything...I post this because I was kicked from Depths of Malatar vet on the King fight. I should note that I have cleared this dungeon on veteran - including hard mode on the final boss - at least a dozen times. It's how I got my Auroran set.

I generally parse 25-30k on a trial dummy. When I was kicked from aforementioned group, I was running shields on my back bar (the second back bar listed above), so I parsed on a dummy to see what my output was and I hit 26.8k. A second parse using my non-shield back bar got me to 28k, which is likely due to RNG given the rotation doesn't actually change since a target dummy is single target. I should note the King fight is semi-AE (there are 4 spread out on spawn but can be stacked, it was hit and miss).

The other DPS (I think a stamina DK, but not positive. I seem to recall green fire. Could have been a warden.), per the group leader (I don't run parsers most of the time) was doing 65% of the group's damage and I was doing 30%. I should note that the healer and DPS were dying a lot and I was rezzing them. But even with that in mind, I still feel like given the other DPS was dying, and that I hear of people parsing 100k (?!?!) on trial dummies, I feel like I am doing something wrong.

The big things others have told me asking in game are that my crit is low, I need a third set (Mother's Sorrow was recommended, for crit), and my gear isn't gold, it's purple, including my weapons. I'm also thinking my staff being decisive instead of precise is a significant hold back too.

Any advice I can get?

For what it's worth, I don't lack experience. I have cleared most DLC dungeons on vet - and most with the final boss on hard mode, to boot. To name a few:
Depths of Malatar on vet HM
March of Sacrifices on vet HM
Fang Lair on Vet H M
Scalecaller Peak on Vet (not HM)
Bloodrot Forge on Vet
Cradle of Shadows Vet HM
White-Gold Tower Vet HM


***EDIT***: I should also note someone mentioned potions to me. I don't generally keep potions active constantly. I use a tri-stat potion if I am low on magicka or health - and only for health if I don't think I have time to get off a shield or heal before I am about to die. I did not use potions for the above mentioned parses.

Wyrd88

E-Zekiel wrote: »

My two active sets are Auroran (5 pieces) and Stormfist (2 pieces), and part of crafty alfiq

Put Auroran to the the trash bin. Proc sets are no use in PVE. Stormfist is a stamina DPS set. Crafty Alfiq put in bank, may find some usage later.
Grab some basic stuff, like Necropotence if you're running pets or False God if you're not, pair it with Mother's Sorrow. Full Divines, Spell DMG enchants on jewelry, Infused staff on back bar with Berserker Glyph, Preciese staff on a front bar with Absorb Magika or some other DMG enchant. Monster set of your choise, there are a lot of good sets for a magika DPS.

Another important thing - make your weapons golden. Rosin for staves are really cheap and it gives you a decent boost in damage. The rest of the gear can be just purple, it's not big of a difference with golden.

E-Zekiel wrote: »

I generally parse 25-30k on a trial dummy.

That's super low actually. It's low even for a 6m dummy which don't have any buffs/debuffs on it.

E-Zekiel wrote: »

Depths of Malatar on vet HM
March of Sacrifices on vet HM
Fang Lair on Vet H M
Scalecaller Peak on Vet (not HM)
Bloodrot Forge on Vet
Cradle of Shadows Vet HM
White-Gold Tower Vet HM

I wonder how do you even managed to do the first three.

E-Zekiel wrote: »

I don't generally keep potions active constantly.

Generally it's up to you, but usually Mag DPS using Essence of Spell Power which gives you Major Prophecy, Sorcery and Intellect with a 100% uptime with Medicinal Use passive from Alchemy tree.

For skills setup, rotation and Champion Points I'd recommend to look here. But generally speacking it's quite simple, like place your DoTs from back bar (Unstable Wall, Liquid Lightning, Orb and whatever) and then use spamable with light attacks weaving from a front bar.

E-Zekiel

Wyrd88 wrote: »

Put Auroran to the the trash bin. Proc sets are no use in PVE. Stormfist is a stamina DPS set. Crafty Alfiq put in bank, may find some usage later.

Not sure if you're keeping up but I had a question about this part in particular. Some others have recommended the Ilambris boss set - which I actually have.

It seems to me like Stormfist would overall do more damage, even if the last hit is physical.

Both are on an 8 sec cooldown.
2181 x 3 = 6543 + 10217 = 16760 total.
2567 x 5 = 12835 total.

Granted, one is a 33% on shock/flame damage (most of what I'm dealing is shock) and one is 10% on any, I feel like this probably procs on cooldown, or does the higher proc chance make a huge difference?

Wyrd88

E-Zekiel wrote: »

Wyrd88 wrote: »

Put Auroran to the the trash bin. Proc sets are no use in PVE. Stormfist is a stamina DPS set. Crafty Alfiq put in bank, may find some usage later.

Not sure if you're keeping up but I had a question about this part in particular. Some others have recommended the Ilambris boss set - which I actually have.

It seems to me like Stormfist would overall do more damage, even if the last hit is physical.

Both are on an 8 sec cooldown.
2181 x 3 = 6543 + 10217 = 16760 total.
2567 x 5 = 12835 total.

Granted, one is a 33% on shock/flame damage (most of what I'm dealing is shock) and one is 10% on any, I feel like this probably procs on cooldown, or does the higher proc chance make a huge difference?

Stormfist have 129 stam recovery as a primary stat, which is useless for a mag dd. Any other magika oriented monster set have 1k mag or spell dmg/crit, which boost your overall damage output. Also it is about type of damage (like physycal or magical), which boosted by your CP (iirc somewhere in a blue tree) and penetration. Considering this, any magika oriented monster set would be better than Stormfist.

Ilambris is a good choise for a start, but in terms of damage output there is a better options, like Maw of Infernal, Zaan, or even Slimecraw. But as I previously said, it's mostly up to you.

Zodiarkslayer

So basically what Wyrd88 says....

Your first mistake is gears. Choose good sets for damage. Ideally Mothers Sorrow on Weapon and Jewelry and (Perfected) False God's Devotion on Body. Traits: Precise or Sharpened on the frontbar and Infused on the backbar. But thats a looooooong way off. So go with Julianos on the Body pieces for a start. And try out Infused as trait on the big Pieces (i.e. Head, Legs and Torso). That way your enchantments are more powerful and you dont loose out too much on Bonus to Mundus stone boon. Monster set is a total bonus. Zaan is good, Ilambris is good, Iceheart procs a shield on cooldown with this setup. AND: Craft or buy golden glyphs! They are really cheap for what you get. WEll, except the prismatic glyph. That one is expansive. ;-)

Your second is unmatching skills.
Match DoTs on your backbar with the infused Staff. Single target spammable on front bar. Dont use expansive or redundant skills (2 shields? why?). Take the right morphs. Elemental Blockade (longer duration means less time on backbar and one more proc of damage glyph), Lighning Flood (bigger area and more damage per second), Endless Fury(Magicka return), Hardened Ward(More Mitigation).
Generally speaking: Look at all your skills and determine damage per second and damage per magicka point spend. That should tell you what to choose.

Your third is not understanding combat principles and game mechanics well enough.
Max out Magicka! You want at least 40K. Spell damage is not an issue, but crit chance is. You need about 60% to 70% ideally without the thief mundus. Shadow is king for magsorc! Trial groups are build for singletarget damage and veteran dungeons for a balance of AoE and Single. In Overland you need survivability first and foremost.
Use a Mix of AoE DoTs and single target attack. No burst AoE's! Lightning Staff heavy attack is a powerful AoE, so no need for any redundancies on you skillbar. Penetration is key for damage. Especially in dungeons. Thats why you want sharpened trait and EleDrain skill. Try to get more buffs without manually triggering them. Shock attacks can proc the status effect "concussed". That is minor vulnerability (8% more damage received) for 8 secs (maybe 4?). Thats why you want to layer shock attacks in the largest possible area. Hence the morph choices.

And finally: Dont listen to endgame players too much. They will give you recommendations based on their skills and ressources. Following them will usually cost you hundreds of hours in gameplay and millions in gold to achieve.

Here is my take on the MagSorc, if you are interested (please note the PTS rules): https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=262506

For Overland I play like this: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=233070

E-Zekiel

@Zodiarkslayer Thanks much for posting this! This is actually super helpful, because with the exception of a different boss set and using Force Pulse instead of Elemental Weapon (mainly because I don't have the psijic line - was thinking of working on it to experiment with this)...this is almost exactly slot for slot how I was going to change my build. Moving my ground targets to back bar and putting magelight on the front bar for crit - I didn't realize the other morph provided such a big magicka bonus as it ranked up. I saw 2% and was like "meh". I had picked Radiant for PVP purposes (but ended up abandoning it in favor of revealing flare, anyway). This'll definitely be a boon.

I'll probably swap Boundless Storm something else I'm not sure about yet. Probably Haunting Curse for most applications, maybe Detonation for high target trash pulls or Dark Conversion for magicka sustain depending on how my magicka sustain is looking after these changes I make.

But this is super helpful cause it lets me know I apparently had the right idea from Wyrd's advice and this sorta confirms it.

I just thought it was remarkable/funny that with the exception of the one skill this basically the exact gear and skill loadout I was thinking of working towards

Other misc stuff:

Gonna change liquid lightning to lightning flood because I end up actually burning a lot of magicka needlessly recasting it early. This is largely because it is on a different timer than Unstable Wall. Gonna keep unstable wall for two reasons - one I just like the effect better (and it's useful in both PVE and PVP and IMO blockade isn't as good in PVP, and I think the DPS difference is gonna be minimal). The other is that both Wall and Lightning Flood will be on the same timer, which will stop me from needlessly wasting magicka. Ironically I had picked liquid lightning specifically so I didn't have to recast it as often, but...that ended up not being what I actually end up doing in practice, lol. I'll probably keep Mage's Wrath tho, but I'll consider comparing them more closely. My main thing is it barely uses any magicka as is and when I'm in execute range anyway magicka conservation isn't a huge consideration on my mind


I DO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS THOUGH!

1. I used to run Elemental Drain on my back bar, but I found that nearly every group I join, somebody else overwrites it, so I stopped doing it - but I did still get a small mana-tap from using it, and generally the Major Breach overwrite was from a non-ele drain skill (prob tank taunt or something). If this is happening, should I run it anyway for the mana-tap or is it mostly too redundant at that point?

2. Does elemental weapon work on lightning heavy since it's not a single hit?

3. Does lightning heavy really outdamage, say, pulsar spam? This is surprising, but I've honestly never actually compared.

4. I had been doing potion spam instead of magelight but was considering changing, for the Major Prophecy. I did actually test and see if the potion and magelight stacked in that regard - they don't. Obviously I get Major Sorcery from Crit Surge. Would a build like this (with Inner Light and Crit Surge) negate the need for potion spam? Should I change what potion I'm using instead? Or should I go back to tri-stat potion as needed (IE, when low on mana, or when low on health and I don't think I have time to swap to back bar and put a shield up)

5. Lastly, what all do you do for magicka sustain? Just heavy attacks? I did notice that you went with regen on jewelry instead of spell damage though.

zvavi

E-Zekiel wrote: »

I DO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS THOUGH!

1. I used to run Elemental Drain on my back bar, but I found that nearly every group I join, somebody else overwrites it, so I stopped doing it - but I did still get a small mana-tap from using it, and generally the Major Breach overwrite was from a non-ele drain skill (prob tank taunt or something). If this is happening, should I run it anyway for the mana-tap or is it mostly too redundant at that point?

2. Does elemental weapon work on lightning heavy since it's not a single hit?

3. Does lightning heavy really outdamage, say, pulsar spam? This is surprising, but I've honestly never actually compared.

4. I had been doing potion spam instead of magelight but was considering changing, for the Major Prophecy. I did actually test and see if the potion and magelight stacked in that regard - they don't. Obviously I get Major Sorcery from Crit Surge. Would a build like this (with Inner Light and Crit Surge) negate the need for potion spam? Should I change what potion I'm using instead? Or should I go back to tri-stat potion as needed (IE, when low on mana, or when low on health and I don't think I have time to swap to back bar and put a shield up)

5. Lastly, what all do you do for magicka sustain? Just heavy attacks? I did notice that you went with regen on jewelry instead of spell damage though.

1. Usually it is the healer's job. I am surprised you actually see then doing it, I got the opposite problem, being forced to slot it because they won't.
2. Nope, elemental weapons is light attack related.
3. Shock clench (one of the morphs) with lightning Master staff deals the most cleave, but if you are too lazy to change your setup on adds, you can heavy attack. Obviously pulsar spam will deal more damage.
4. Welcome to the cheap trash potions club. We try to get our buffs from cheaper sources than potions, like skills.
5. Sustain is an issue in the game currently. ZoS seems to be enthusiastic to balance resources around trials where you have 2 supports feeding you resources through sets & skills. and that's while wearing sustain set (perfected false god). Heavy lightning heavy attacks while target is off balance and vMA staff backbar gives back a lot of resources with not much dps loss.

Zodiarkslayer

1.) Same as above. It would be the healers job to cast it and keep it up, especially in boss fights. And even if your Major Breach is overritten by another players effect (I think only the timers gets reset to max) the minor magickasteal secondary is not. I find it helps as backup, since you get a lot of incompetence in random 4 man groups. If you play with 3 friends or guildmates you can coordinate, so only one of you runs it.
2.) No. Only light attack. And note the secondary effects of EleWeapon. Burned(DoT) Chilled(minor Maim) or Concussed(minor vulnerability).
3.) It is so good, because it does more then shock pulsar or others active skills. Pulsar doesn't set off balance, sustain you or give you time to asses the battle. But the best about it is it doesn't take a slot. You can always do it.
4.) In an idiot group with monkey tanks and clueless healers you might need the additional slots for heals (I run Vigor sometimes when the healer is useless or overwhelmed) and buffs like boundless storm. In those cases you need to run spellpower potions. In all other cases...triPots (i have around 500 crownstore potions, so i use them) or trashPots.
5.) Sustain is your choice. And it depends strongly on your personal skill level. What you can see during a fight (is the boss off Balance, can i use an orb synergy now, should i wait a sec or two?...), how quickly you can push bottons and react and how well you know the animation time of your skills. It's all that. And more.
I recommend starting with 3 recovery glyphs and learn where you stand.Then replace one of them with a spellharm glyph. Play a few dungeons. See if you sustain. Repeat.
General options for sustain (in order of usefulness) are recovery glyphs, potions, synergies (shards, orbs), heavy attacks, absorb magicka weapon enchants, cost reduction glyphs, magickasteal (EleDrain), dark conversion. And don't forget racial passives like Magicka Mastery and Spell Recharge.

I can say in Trials I never have issues, because of good healers with good setups, that know what they are doing. And in 4 man groups I'm always prepared to solo if I have to.

And regarding your build choices: Do what you like and what feels right to you. If you can't operate a higher damaging skill effectively you might end up doing less dps. That's normal.

Morph choices are always controversial. I try to pick the larger area, because mobility of the enemies. They need to be inside the area to get the damage. On a target dummy its not a problem. Against a highly mobile boss more area means more damge ticks. Thats why blockade over unstable (12m width instead of 8m) and lightning flood over liquid lighning (113m² vs 50m²).

E-Zekiel

Thanks again guys. After farming out Mother's Sorrow 5 piece, upgrading my weapons to gold

I'm happy to say that with my new sets (Ilambris, Mother's sorrow [5], and auroran [5] which I'll probably replace but it'll take time) and new ability setup my DPS has improved substantially. My average the other day was ~27k, and I've now pumped it up to an average of 40k

I'm now running Force Pulse, Crystal Fragments, Inner Light (only rank 1 atm), Mage's Wrath, Bound Armor (also rank 1) on my front bar, with Hardened Ward, Crit Surge, Dark Conversion, Unstable Wall, Lightning flood (rank 1) on my back bar. I haven't parsed shadow vs thief stones yet (~71% crit with thief/divines out of combat, ~77% in combat w/trial dummy) but I'm sure shadow will be another one that beefs me up. Although two pieces have reinforced because I divines hasn't dropped yet and I don't have the transmute stones to change them.

(EDIT: Wow, swapping to shadow bumped me to 42k!)

I'm not 100% comfortable with the rotation yet but it'll get better with time and push my damage up more.

I should note that I dunno if I'm "parsing" right on it. I basically stay on it for about 90 second then run away and the number I'm giving you is the number the dummy gives at the end. It seems like the number the dummy give you stops tracking from the last time you did damage but I'm not 100% sure. For this reason I usually try and time my withdrawal to when my DOTs (AE's) stop ticking.

Although my initial tests made it look like Stormfist was beating Ilambris, after comparing the two after a good chunk of practice it looked like Ilambris came out in the lead.

When I have more keys I'm gonna compare to the Nerien'eth set, as I think that'll outperform Ilambris by a significant margin but without taking away from my preferred lightning-centric theme (which is my issue with the daedroth/maw of the infernal set)

Wyrd88

E-Zekiel wrote: »

My average the other day was ~27k, and I've now pumped it up to an average of 40k

That's some progress, gz with that.

E-Zekiel wrote: »

Force Pulse, Crystal Fragments, Inner Light (only rank 1 atm), Mage's Wrath, Bound Armor (also rank 1) on my front bar

I'd recommend to drop Mage's Wrath, it's a dps loss in most cases. Slot Hunting Curse instead.

(Edit: Actually, might be wrong about Mage's Wrath dps loss. But still, if chosing between those two - Hunting Curse>Mage's Wrath)

E-Zekiel wrote: »

Hardened Ward, Crit Surge, Dark Conversion, Unstable Wall, Lightning flood (rank 1) on my back bar.

You don't really need Surge and/or Ward if you're running dungeons and stuff with a healer, so you can put Inner Light and Bound Aegis on both bars, so you won't lose any magika on a bar swap.

E-Zekiel wrote: »

I should note that I dunno if I'm "parsing" right on it. I basically stay on it for about 90 second then run away and the number I'm giving you is the number the dummy gives at the end. It seems like the number the dummy give you stops tracking from the last time you did damage but I'm not 100% sure. For this reason I usually try and time my withdrawal to when my DOTs (AE's) stop ticking.

Actually, you need to set target dummy HP from full to zero. That's "parsing". (Example under the spoiler at the bottom) Because there is a lot of suff that works on some specific HP thresholds, like Bloodthristy trait, class/weapon passives or CP and whatever, that can affect your numbers. Also it shows you your sustain, for an example, if you're struggle with 6m dummy, then you probably need to ajust some stuff in your build.
I recommend to practicing rotation on a 3m or 6m dummy (but you need to apply Ele Drain on those), and use 21m dummy only when your build is complete and you already learn rotaion well.
Also, if you're PC Master Race I'd recommend to install Combat Metrics addon to see your stats, numbers, uptimes and all other stuff. Kinda helpfull.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moyPcWL4zlA

Shantu

Just go to Alcast's site for reference. He has beginner to advanced builds, rotations, food, mundus, potion recommendations, and CP setups for all classes. It's a very useful place to start.

https://alcasthq.com/

Zodiarkslayer

Shantu wrote: »

Just go to Alcast's site for reference. He has beginner to advanced builds, rotations, food, mundus, potion recommendations, and CP setups for all classes. It's a very useful place to start.

https://alcasthq.com/

This is what I specifically meant, when I wrote:

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

And finally: Dont listen to endgame players too much. They will give you recommendations based on their skills and ressources. Following them will usually cost you hundreds of hours in gameplay and millions in gold to achieve.