More-damage-taken debuffs

FrancisCrawford

Debuffs like Major/Minor Vulnerability, or the 5-piece bonuses to Z'en's Redress and Martial Knowledge, cause enemies to take more damage. Are these debuffs additive to damage-done bonuses such as the ones from blue CP or from various passives, or are they multiplicative?

Similarly for the crit damage increase in the forthcoming Elemental Catalyst set; does add to or multiply with crit-damage-done bonuses?

BXR_Lonestar

Honestly, one of the things that they could do to increase build diversity across the board is if they allowed over-penetration to increase the damage the target receives. For example. Boss has 18K spell/physical resistances, but you have 20000K Spell Pen on a magika character.

Under the current system, your wasting 2k stats, either from armor or champion points. But it could be reconfigured to so that you get an increase in damage equivalent to the inverse amount of damage reduction 2k resistances would give (not sure how that calculation works). This would help build diversity in both PVE and PVP, and it wouldn't require the creation of new unique buffs/debuffs or be purely class oriented.

FrancisCrawford

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Honestly, one of the things that they could do to increase build diversity across the board is if they allowed over-penetration to increase the damage the target receives. For example. Boss has 18K spell/physical resistances, but you have 20000K Spell Pen on a magika character.

Under the current system, your wasting 2k stats, either from armor or champion points. But it could be reconfigured to so that you get an increase in damage equivalent to the inverse amount of damage reduction 2k resistances would give (not sure how that calculation works). This would help build diversity in both PVE and PVP, and it wouldn't require the creation of new unique buffs/debuffs or be purely class oriented.

Wait. Are you saying that more-damage-taken debuffs stack with penetration???

zvavi

They will never do it, because it will diminish their p2w necromancer class

FrancisCrawford

zvavi wrote: »

They will never do it, because it will diminish their p2w necromancer class

OK.

But at the moment, do they stack additively with anything? (Except, presumably, each other.)

FrancisCrawford

Engulfing Flames also comes to mind.

YandereGirlfriend

I don't actually believe that we need anymore brute-force "increase all damage by x%" sets or debuffs.

What is needed is more Morag Tong and Engulfing Flames types of sets and abilities, things that don't just increase damage across-the-board but do so for a certain niche or group configuration.

I think that there's a consensus that each class should have some elemental affinity that is useful in group or solo play:

• MagDK - Flame
• StamDK - Poison
• MagSorc - Shock
• StamSorc - Physical
• MagBlade - Magic
• StamBlade - Disease
• MagPlar - Magic
• StamPlar - Physical
• MagWarden - Frost
• StamWarden - Bleed

Give all of these an elemental-boosting ability, either "takes 10% more particular elemental damage for x seconds" or, in the case of elemental double-ups like StamSorc and StamPlar, give one the elemental debuff and the other like a Minor Courage for their specific elemental affinity (e.g. "Adds 129 Weapon Damage to Physical Damage abilities", "Adds 129 Spell Damage to Magic Damage abilities", etc.). This would also partially make up for the lack of status effects linked to those elements.

As long as Necromancers have Major Vulnerability in their toolkit they probably don't need a secondary group damage buff.

FrancisCrawford

I'm glad folks find this general area so interesting ... but could somebody actually please answer my mechanics questions as to how these benefits are computed?

YandereGirlfriend

To the best of my knowledge:

• Damage done mods are multiplicative
• Damage taken debuffs are additive
• Critical Damage is additive

zvavi

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

[*] Critical Damage is additive multiplicative
[/list]

Fixed it :thumbsup:

FrancisCrawford

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge:

• Damage done mods are multiplicative
• Damage taken debuffs are additive
• Critical Damage is additive

Let's step back a moment.

The formula is something like:

Damage = VanillaToolTipDamage * MitigationFactor * CritFactorIfApplicable * OtherFactors

What we're talking about is how OtherFactors is computed.

Is it more like:

A: (1 + sum (Damage Dealt Bonuses)) * (1 + sum (Damage Taken Bonuses))

or

B: 1 + sum(Damage Dealt Bonuses) + sum(Damage Taken Bonuses)

Sum(Damage Dealt Bonuses) is pretty big; it's fueled by two different major lines of champion points, and often from other sources as well. So Option A would make Damage Taken Bonuses be substantially more valuable than Option B would.

amm7sb14_ESO

zvavi wrote: »

They will never do it, because it will diminish their p2w necromancer class

p2w lol