ZOS, tell the community whether or not a server hardware solution could fix Cyrodiil performance.

TineaCruris

LightningWitch wrote: »

It's definitely not a hardware issue. Amazon Web Services are used for the servers in ESO, and I can attest the issue cannot be hardware related.

AWS will scale based on need, meaning if an instance is at capacity, the server size will automatically grow to accommodate.

PVP is a different beast and I wouldn't be surprised if a completely different configuration is used due to the volume of players in PVP vs PVE.

Given this situation, it's only logical to deduce the issue is software related, incapable to updating fast enough to compensate for the action going on screen. Lag is the result, followed by disconnects.

I will set aside one common complaint: animations. This isn't the issue. Most of those are already in their own memory space, and since they're reused (which is why everything looks identical), calls to render are reduced.

If I were to make an educated guess at the issue, it's the skills. With so many having such high levels of calculations and timed effects, trying to calculate so many in a single instance is pushing the server to the point trying to render them instantly is difficult to do.

One thing I believe may be helpful, though it probably won't be well-liked: limit skills to a single bar.

It definitely is, at least partly, a hardware issue, on the server end. We know because they did a temporary hardware upgrade for the MYM event and it made things notably better. Then at the end of the event they reverted their upgrades and now performance is at a near all time low again.

Tandor

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I am actually surprised that in their official statement, they did not stated that...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/539136/update-on-cyrodiil-performance-upcoming-aoe-tests/p1

It is obvious they should. They could say like "anything". Like for example that they already use best hardware available money can buy etc. But they did not, and people think that they simply... don't want to invest money...

They've already made it clear that it isn't primarily a hardware issue, they have made some hardware upgrades but it is essentially a software issue which is why they have been revising the way that skills work especially in Cyrodiil. There isn't a single source that can be linked to that effect, it's something that has been covered in various improvement updates and ESO Live broadcasts over quite some time.

MJallday

It’s not a hardware issue

Irrespective of cloud or physical infra, if it was a hardware issue you would see processors or RAM maxing, lights And warnings going off Everywhere and graphs through the roof
The hardware engineer would be lobbing hardware solutions at it (very cheap and quick)

This is much more likely to be a processor threading Or throughput issue to the database, OR a calculation issue

All caused by code . All can be fixed with code


Also worth noting AWS only scales up to what your paid for, not endlessly


Source - I designed and ran the U.K. largest private cloud

Elsonso

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Does someone have a source actually proving who owns the data centers in Texas and Germany?
I see the Amazon claim but no source.

We don't know. Unless something has changed, I think they are using leased on-prem HPE Blade System servers in Level 3 (now CenturyLink) data centers in Dallas and Frankfurt. They use Akamai as the CDN to install the game client and patches. Amazon Web Services hardware is not used.

(I am not privy to any special information or knowledge that is not public, so that is all guesses based on statements, forum postings, network trace routes, pictures that ZOS has posted, etc)

Four_Fingers

Elsonso wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Does someone have a source actually proving who owns the data centers in Texas and Germany?
I see the Amazon claim but no source.

We don't know. Unless something has changed, I think they are using leased on-prem HPE Blade System servers in Level 3 (now CenturyLink) data centers in Dallas and Frankfurt. They use Akamai as the CDN to install the game client and patches. Amazon Web Services hardware is not used.

(I am not privy to any special information or knowledge that is not public, so that is all guesses based on statements, forum postings, network trace routes, pictures that ZOS has posted, etc)

Yeah, that is what I always thought, I had never heard of the Amazon connection, maybe the Stadia hosted clients confused the issue.

Marto

Telling ZOS to "Just upgrade the servers!" to fix performance issues is like telling someone to "Just get a RTX 2080ti!" when a game is poorly optimized.

They need to optimize the game. But the only way they can do that, is to find what causes the poor optimization. And that's exactly why they are doing those AoE tests in Cyrodiil.

Is it the frequency of the AoE attacks? Is it the amount of them? Is it the way it calculates bonuses? Is it only the ground ones or also the brief ones?

I don't know. You don't know. And ZOS doesn't know. And that's why they're doing those tests.

idk

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

LightningWitch wrote: »

It's definitely not a hardware issue. Amazon Web Services are used for the servers in ESO, and I can attest the issue cannot be hardware related.

AWS will scale based on need, meaning if an instance is at capacity, the server size will automatically grow to accommodate.

PVP is a different beast and I wouldn't be surprised if a completely different configuration is used due to the volume of players in PVP vs PVE.

Given this situation, it's only logical to deduce the issue is software related, incapable to updating fast enough to compensate for the action going on screen. Lag is the result, followed by disconnects.

I will set aside one common complaint: animations. This isn't the issue. Most of those are already in their own memory space, and since they're reused (which is why everything looks identical), calls to render are reduced.

If I were to make an educated guess at the issue, it's the skills. With so many having such high levels of calculations and timed effects, trying to calculate so many in a single instance is pushing the server to the point trying to render them instantly is difficult to do.

One thing I believe may be helpful, though it probably won't be well-liked: limit skills to a single bar.

I appreciate your explanation, and acknowledge that many community members may have expertise in these matters, in contrast to my dearth of networking/server infrastructure knowledge. However, it should not be left to community members to explain to others their hypotheses regarding the viability of hardware solutions. It should come from ZOS, and end all speculation.

I doubt Zos is going to reply as they do not reply to every question posed to them in the forums as the forums has a constant flow of questions. You would have a much better chance of getting an answer during an ESO Live Q/A.

The person you quoted is correct. If upgrading the servers was such an amazing solution Zos would have done so long ago since that is not a very expensive project as they are leased, to begin with.

idk

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Does someone have a source actually proving who owns the data centers in Texas and Germany?
I see the Amazon claim but no source.

I expect some have done traceroutes and made the judgment based on the IP. I do not see how it is really important if Amazon or Google or some other server farm was used.

mb10

Cyrodiil should probably have its own server tbh like NA/EU have their own.

There should just be a joint EU/NA Cyrodiil server that is genuinely onlt the Cyrodiil map and nothing else from Tamriel

Elsonso

idk wrote: »

If upgrading the servers was such an amazing solution Zos would have done so long ago since that is not a very expensive project as they are leased, to begin with.

Yes, I am convinced that they are, for all intents and purposes, already running the hardware people are asking for. If they are so cheap that they will not upgrade a few Cyrodiil campaign servers, then there is no way they are going to go to all the work to do this testing, then remove chain-casting AOE abilities as a core ESO PvP experience, and finish up by going through each class to ensure that there are viable builds for each. That is disruption on a massive scale, as many have noticed.

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

I appreciate your explanation, and acknowledge that many community members may have expertise in these matters, in contrast to my dearth of networking/server infrastructure knowledge. However, it should not be left to community members to explain to others their hypotheses regarding the viability of hardware solutions. It should come from ZOS, and end all speculation.

Why don't they just tell us that they investigated the hardware and that is not the problem? Aside from the fact that it is a rather obvious unstated assumption, it really isn't our business. They actually don't answer to us, no matter what we might think. Yes, it would be great if they would volunteer that information, but if they don't want to, and it looks like they don't, we have no say in the matter.

But, hey, let's try. Ahem.

Oh @ZOS_RichLambert, Holiest of Creative Directors, Maker of All Decisions, and Not A Shabby Woodworker, I do summon thee and implore You to teach us about how the server hardware relates to the AoE problem, and, if it is within Your divine will, also reveal to us how You, in your Divine Wisdom, got the servers to do Thy bidding during Midyear Madness. Your faithful servant, Elsonso.

Summonings do not always work. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

volkeswagon

mb10 wrote: »

Cyrodiil should probably have its own server tbh like NA/EU have their own.

There should just be a joint EU/NA Cyrodiil server that is genuinely onlt the Cyrodiil map and nothing else from Tamriel

that won't matter
A mega server is made up of many servers. Cyrodiiil already has its own as does Imperial city and Vardenfell, etc. They are just all interconnected. They had separated Imperial City from Cyrodiiil awhile back thinking it would help performance but it didn't. Its the skills, especially AOE'S that overload the processors. ESO has calculation overload because of how combat was designed

Hotdog_23

No idea if hardwire would help but MYM worked the best it had in a long time. Something helped and changed before and after MYM. Which leads me to think it’s more hardwire/resources issue then not.

Here is a radical idea it you want to PVP you must be ESO+ to help pay for the extra hardwire/resources. No more freeloading off others that help pay for the servers.

Be safe and have fun

Four_Fingers

I would gladly pay for an improved Cyrodiil.