Cooldown is not a Solution Fix Ball Groups

p4l4mu7

Give solo pvpers some love, so people can actually drop healing ball groups. Also block-casting needs a rework. I have been a solo player in pvp for 4 years, a solo player can do 1vX, can destroy zergs alone but you have no chance againts a healing ball group. Zos needs to find a way of dealing with ball groups instead of adding cooldown to aoe abilities.
As a stamsorc main I don't use any aoe skill other than streak so this change won't hurt my playstyle yet it's a meaningless lazy change. Group of unskilled players running around spamming heals is badly affecting server. This playstyle is not only damaging server performance but also it's a cheap playstyle with 0 skill required, as soon as you attack a member of a ball group he will either spam roll dodges or perma block-cast while others are spamming heal running around, you can't fight with such thing.

LordOsiris

Cooldown also for stuns, because get stuned by 20 players just stun stun stun and roll over with aoe so that the own char can't do anything more is NOT the fair game I am looking for. As a matter of fact the break free is also buged.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Well blocking got nerfed a while back - no stam regen whilst blocking.
Roll dodging could use a similar nerf like this too (no regen after roll...regen cooldown)
Streaking could also use a cooldown too (unblockable stun) which is over used.

ItsMeToo

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

Give solo pvpers some love, so people can actually drop healing ball groups. Also block-casting needs a rework. I have been a solo player in pvp for 4 years, a solo player can do 1vX, can destroy zergs alone but you have no chance againts a healing ball group. Zos needs to find a way of dealing with ball groups instead of adding cooldown to aoe abilities.
As a stamsorc main I don't use any aoe skill other than streak so this change won't hurt my playstyle yet it's a meaningless lazy change. Group of unskilled players running around spamming heals is badly affecting server. This playstyle is not only damaging server performance but also it's a cheap playstyle with 0 skill required, as soon as you attack a member of a ball group he will either spam roll dodges or perma block-cast while others are spamming heal running around, you can't fight with such thing.

It doesn't take any player skill to mash keys or buttons in this game. The ones that stay alive longer have the better internet connection and speed.

p4l4mu7

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Well blocking got nerfed a while back - no stam regen whilst blocking.
Roll dodging could use a similar nerf like this too (no regen after roll...regen cooldown)
Streaking could also use a cooldown too (unblockable stun) which is over used.

If they could prevent using healing skills while blocking it could help dealing with perma-block healing magplars and magdens.
As a stamsorc I can't use streak more than twice in short time anyways but streak spamming magsorcs are problems I agree. While streak cost multiplies as you use it over and over again magsorcs can stack +50k magicka easly. But with a gapcloser you can always catch them as they drain their magicka you can always stay on top of them. Streak spam has a counter=gap closer. If somebody is spamming streak spam gap closer. If somebody is spamming cloak spam aoe to deal with him.
Almost all the builds have a counter, unblockable stuns are for dealing with perma blockers but since they can block cast heals it doesn't work well. You can't kill everybody, you can't counter everybody. But healing ball groups are like exploits no way to counter that if you are not also in a orginized group.

zaria

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Well blocking got nerfed a while back - no stam regen whilst blocking.
Roll dodging could use a similar nerf like this too (no regen after roll...regen cooldown)
Streaking could also use a cooldown too (unblockable stun) which is over used.

Roll doge has an cool down already.

Wait I can add more nerfs how about an 5 second cooldown on any mouse or keyboard click.

I starting getting into the camp of just make Cyrodil an PvE zone by now.
That would obviously be way more healthy for the game than pushing trough the mother of all nerfs with people defending it.
Note that my most memorable events in ESO has been in Cyrodil, still you got to cut your losses.

laksikus

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

Give solo pvpers some love, so people can actually drop healing ball groups. Also block-casting needs a rework. I have been a solo player in pvp for 4 years, a solo player can do 1vX, can destroy zergs alone but you have no chance againts a healing ball group. Zos needs to find a way of dealing with ball groups instead of adding cooldown to aoe abilities.
As a stamsorc main I don't use any aoe skill other than streak so this change won't hurt my playstyle yet it's a meaningless lazy change. Group of unskilled players running around spamming heals is badly affecting server. This playstyle is not only damaging server performance but also it's a cheap playstyle with 0 skill required, as soon as you attack a member of a ball group he will either spam roll dodges or perma block-cast while others are spamming heal running around, you can't fight with such thing.

Not using hurricane or dawnbreaker?

p4l4mu7

laksikus wrote: »

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

Give solo pvpers some love, so people can actually drop healing ball groups. Also block-casting needs a rework. I have been a solo player in pvp for 4 years, a solo player can do 1vX, can destroy zergs alone but you have no chance againts a healing ball group. Zos needs to find a way of dealing with ball groups instead of adding cooldown to aoe abilities.
As a stamsorc main I don't use any aoe skill other than streak so this change won't hurt my playstyle yet it's a meaningless lazy change. Group of unskilled players running around spamming heals is badly affecting server. This playstyle is not only damaging server performance but also it's a cheap playstyle with 0 skill required, as soon as you attack a member of a ball group he will either spam roll dodges or perma block-cast while others are spamming heal running around, you can't fight with such thing.

Not using hurricane or dawnbreaker?

Are you spamming hurricane (15 sec duration), are you spamming dawnbreaker?

visionality

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Are you spamming hurricane (15 sec duration), are you spamming dawnbreaker?

Both are not spammable (actually spamming hurricane would be the worst thing you can do), so do you know what you ask???

*edited for typo

TequilaFire

A single player should not be able to drop a group.
That crap is just as discouraging to the new PvP players you are taking advantage of as a "ball" group is.

VaranisArano

This IS the devs attempt to solve ball groups...or at least their ability to leverage sets, skills, and group builds to pump out "infinite sustain, infinite healing, infinite damage".

Galarthor

Where is all that talk about cooldowns coming from?

And secondly, the fix is quite easy and has been for years (but ZOS has been willing to listen so far):
get rid of most AoEs in PvP, especially those that are not stationary
Those AoEs are the root of all performance issues in pvp. You can have large scale battles without any significant lag, but as soon as those AoE spamming groups come online and join the fight, the lag goes through the roof.

Just add a 75% or 90% debuff to those AoEs via Battle Spirit. PvE will not be affected and AoEs will be rather useless in PvP.

This debuff ,however, should not affect all AoEs the same way. For example templar jabs should still hit as hard on their primary target. But the secondary target damage should then also be affected by this debuff. Same for Sorc curse. Be smart about it!

Other abilities such as spin-2-win (pure AoE ability) should be affected to 100% b/c it is not really needed in outside of AoE builds.

And just like that traffic is reduced by a huge proportion. And it would not be difficult to implement. Why ZOS hasn't done this already and instead rather spend a year on "performance improvements" by altering the code is beyond me. Especially since their way seems way more expensive, time-consuming, and complex ... which only low to moderate chance of actual improvements.

p4l4mu7

visionality wrote: »

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Are you spamming hurricane (15 sec duration), are you spamming dawnbreaker?

Both are not spammable (actually spamming hurricane would be the worst thing you can do), so do you know what you ask???

*edited for typo

Bruh... that's the point

TequilaFire wrote: »

A single player should not be able to drop a group.
That crap is just as discouraging to the new PvP players you are taking advantage of as a "ball" group is.

Do you know the difference between a zerg and a ball group?
Yes a single player should be able to drop a group. If spent years on this games pvp do you think I shouldn't be able to kill 10 newbie players who started pvp 10 mins ago. Right now players skill defines the result and not number of people.
If I am killing a group I don't stand still and smash buttons to kill them. If you want to 1vx you have to constantly kite and time your burst do you even know what are you talking about when you say a single player shouldn't kill a group? Nobody out there is standing still and killing groups.

nk125x

I just shake my head every time ZO$ suggest fundamental changes, like the last one changing LA/HA around. I guess they were hopping we would all HA to slow things down. Instead everybody realized LA weaving would give you infinite resources so you could change all your glyphs to Weapon or spell damage - Now this change, just means you will rotate your aoe's in a ball group between damage/heal and purge, abuse the new proc meta and cause so much more lag!!!!

TequilaFire

Where I first noticed an increase in lag was when they added costumes and personalities.
The server has to update each client with custom appearances and mount/set visual effect for every client.
Why don't we start with all the extra cosmetic visuals before gutting combat?

VaranisArano

Galarthor wrote: »

Where is all that talk about cooldowns coming from?

Read tests 1, 2, and 4 here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/539136/update-on-cyrodiil-performance-upcoming-aoe-tests/p1

VaranisArano

TequilaFire wrote: »

Where I first noticed an increase in lag was when they added costumes and personalities.
The server has to update each client with custom appearances and mount/set visual effect for every client.
Why don't we start with all the extra cosmetic visuals before gutting combat?

There's some precedent for this: ZOS did have to lower resolution on other players' mounts on consoles at one point, IIRC.

josiahva

nerf this, nerf that, all the while, screw the PVE players who this might actually affect more. I like to PvP and PvE, but just about every single nerf the PvP players scream for hurts PvE much more than it helps PvP. After 6 years of PvP nerfs, it is still just as easy to die there as it was before, the only thing that changes is what the cancer build of the month is....all the efforts at "balancing" PvP just ends up making PvE miserable. If PvP players were TRULY interested in balance, they would stop crying for nerfs and start crying for PvP-only skills and sets, just like you cant use certain disguises in PvP areas, you wouldnt be able to use certain skills and sets.

Nomad1098

Look at all the non-pvp players talking about stuff they don't know. Stick to housing rp and signing over paychecks to loot boxes.

laksikus

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

Give solo pvpers some love, so people can actually drop healing ball groups. Also block-casting needs a rework. I have been a solo player in pvp for 4 years, a solo player can do 1vX, can destroy zergs alone but you have no chance againts a healing ball group. Zos needs to find a way of dealing with ball groups instead of adding cooldown to aoe abilities.
As a stamsorc main I don't use any aoe skill other than streak so this change won't hurt my playstyle yet it's a meaningless lazy change. Group of unskilled players running around spamming heals is badly affecting server. This playstyle is not only damaging server performance but also it's a cheap playstyle with 0 skill required, as soon as you attack a member of a ball group he will either spam roll dodges or perma block-cast while others are spamming heal running around, you can't fight with such thing.

Not using hurricane or dawnbreaker?

Are you spamming hurricane (15 sec duration), are you spamming dawnbreaker?

Its not about spamming. If there is a global cd of 3s, you wont have to spam hurricane to somezimes not being able to cast it, or streak or meteor.
Im pretty sure, that even one thw moat single target focused builds, a 3s global cd will be noticed.

But szreak will get a passive bufd, they can finally remove the streak cost debuff if they add. 3s cd xD

thegreat_one

This is about performance, If I can cast skills fighting a ball group i'm all for this.
It's a matter of which group can execute skills when they engage, ball groups are not that bad if you can actually cast and use abilities.

We know something big needed to be done. I'm actually happy to see this much of an effort.

So until we know what the results are.

Thanks Zos,

And I will shut up!